Drahthaar Wanted...I think

[12guns]

Newbie here. Want some opinions.
I'm an avid duck hunter and have the itch to get a dog. My wife and I love dogs and have been looking and thinking about it for years. I have not ruled out Lab's, but have done a lot of reading on Wire haired pointers and Drahthaar's. Drahthaar gets my vote, but I'm not sure pro's and cons. Whatever we get it will be worked with daily, exercised and live inside w/ us. They seem smarter than labs and better for an all around dog. Having said that, I have access to some really high dollar Lab's from a breeder friend of mine. Still not sure which way to go. Keep in mind it will be a house dog for 9 months out of the year, but will still have it's share of boat rides and workouts. Anybody know of breeders in or near Arkansas? I've looked online but can't locate one that will respond to my emails! Thanks

[bobman]

If all you do is hunt ducks get the lab nothing can beat a good lab in a duck blind and they are wonderful pets

[lakota]

Drahts are awesome dogs. I have three and they know when to turn the light switch on when in the field and off when in the house. Mine are all house dogs. They are just cool fun hunting machines. Labs are great dogs and I love them, but I have been around too many that don't know where the light switch is. Drahts and wires just have that laid back bred in them when they need to. Don't really have to teach it. Watch out when the light switch is turned on, a blast to see the two sides go from one to the other.

Clint

[12guns]

What's the difference between Drats and Wirehairs?

[bobman]

nothing

[Mahamari]

What's the difference between Drats and Wirehairs?

Everything!!!

And as for your post title.... No need to think, you want one! Glad I chose one over a lab!

[mcbosco]

I would stay with a Lab (or chessie) for that kind of hunting, but stay away from bench lines they can't hunt and physically have become weak.

[mcbosco]

you might laugh, but standard poodles make great duck hunting dogs as well

[ezzy333]

you might laugh, but standard poodles make great duck hunting dogs as well

Standard poodles were water retrievers back in history but why would a poodle who has been bred for a pet for the past hundreds years be a better dog than a lab who may have been bred for a pet for the past 30 or 40 years. Most labs I have seen still hunt though the heavyset short legged English type isn't as well suited for upland hunting. There are thousands of lab puppies born every year from dogs that are hunted on upland as well as ducks and there are some real nice GWP's being bred also. Pick what excites you since you will have to feed and care for it for quite a few years to come. Either can do the job if you pick puppies from dogs that used as you would like to use your puppy.

[mcbosco]

there are still very good hunting lines around you would be suprised how many people still hunt with poodles, not to the extent of other breeds, but quite a few...I never said they were better than Labs just an interesting option...

i saw a guy training a poodle in the bay last year and it was amazingly good and they are very very smart animals

[mcbosco]

http://www.redhuntingpoodles.com/hunting.html

[ezzy333]

there are still very good hunting lines around you would be suprised how many people still hunt with poodles, not to the extent of other breeds, but quite a few...I never said they were better than Labs just an interesting option...

i saw a guy training a poodle in the bay last year and it was amazingly good and they are very very smart animals

No one is disputing this but your recommendation was to watch what labs you buy but then gave a general approval of standard poodles with no qualifications. That does sound consistant to me.

I am not sure I would be surprised in the least as to how many poodles are hunted but I do know there are darn few compared to labs or any other sporting breed. I would guess there are even more Spinones and you will rarely find one of those in the field, as well as several other minor and rare breeds. Doesn't mean they are not nice dogs but they are not popular because they don't fit the needs of the average hunter as well as many of the other breeds. Plus as Neil pointed out, with a small gene pool you are really limited on what is available now and in the future. And sadly the breeders tend to cahrge a lot more for their puppies because they are rare, but the pups are seldom as well suited to fulfil the buyers need in the field.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

i didn't qualify the comment on poodles because it more obvious to look at lines (field vs bench) compared to labs, at least in my opinion....good pick-up though Ezzy you are on top of things

[12guns]

Good info, thanks.
About the Poodle...I've also heard they are very smart, but I would be the brunt of all jokes for years to come w/ my duck hunting crew...that's unless the poodle out did all there dogs!
I realize Labs are good as a lot of you are saying, but I can't get over how cool the Draht looks, not to mention the people that have owned both and say they'll never go back to a lab. Thanks again.
Any other Draht breeders to look into? Maybe one in MO?

[adogslife]

The better established the gene pool is the greater the chances of getting what you want. A rare breed is nice but if you have to work at teaching it to hunt rather then the dog only needing exposure to hunting it takes some of the enjoyment out of it.
Teaching a dog to retreive dummies is one thing getting the prey drive needed for a successful and satisfying hunt is another.
If duck hunting is the primary hunting a lab would be the better choice.They are a specialist and duck hunting is their specialty.
just my 2cents

adogslife

[12guns]

Good point, but from what I've seen, Draht's have more drive than even a lab. I watched a video yesterday that showed them pointing, retreiving geese and ducks, and tracking a downed elk. When It found the elk, the Draht started pulling on it's leg trying to retreive it! Was a cool vid anyway. I agree labs are one of the best for ducks, but keep in mind Arkansas season is only about 60 days out of the year. The rest of the year I need a good house dog that is easy to train and good as a companion. Seems like the Draht's are consistantly better for that. I have seen plenty of labs that were house dogs, but the vast majority of labs are outside dogs and very high energy non-stop. I'm not knocking labs, it's my second choice and I may end up w/ on just because of the deal I can get from a friend. Just leaning towards the Draht b/c as said before, anyone that's owned one after owning a lab, said they'll never own a lab again. Says alot to me.

[tdhusker]

I'd stick with the DD.

[bobman]

Get what you want thats what matters.... we aren't living with it

[ezzy333]

Good point, but from what I've seen, Draht's have more drive than even a lab. I watched a video yesterday that showed them pointing, retreiving geese and ducks, and tracking a downed elk. When It found the elk, the Draht started pulling on it's leg trying to retreive it! Was a cool vid anyway. I agree labs are one of the best for ducks, but keep in mind Arkansas season is only about 60 days out of the year. The rest of the year I need a good house dog that is easy to train and good as a companion. Seems like the Draht's are consistantly better for that. I have seen plenty of labs that were house dogs, but the vast majority of labs are outside dogs and very high energy non-stop. I'm not knocking labs, it's my second choice and I may end up w/ on just because of the deal I can get from a friend. Just leaning towards the Draht b/c as said before, anyone that's owned one after owning a lab, said they'll never own a lab again. Says alot to me.

That is hear say you are repeating. You need to do some research and make your desision based on evidence. Labs have been bred to be water retrievers and to be quiet gentle dog that are able to sit in a blind all day and that carries over to the home also. GWP's have been bred to be versatile and can do water retrieving but are pointers that normally take more training, which makes them more suited for upland and rabbit hunting as well as being adequate at retrieving. They are also normally more active and tend to be somewhat protective around the home.

I'll make you a bet that there are as many Lab owners that used to own a GWP that would say they would never go back. But that says little about what you want or need. You do the research and base the decision on what you find out and not what someone else thinks. Find dogs that are what you like and want and get a pup from them and your chances of success will improve greatly.


Ezzy

[mcbosco]

yep i agree totally..but the poodle get you all the chicks

[12guns]

Well crap...my buddy just emailed me and said if don't tell anyone else that has one of his dogs, he'll sell me a male for $100. These dogs normally go for $800+. I've personally seen the dad, Batman, and one of the Deuce in action and they are incredible dogs. Guess it's back to the drawing board. Maybe I can talk the wife into a Lab.

[mcbosco]

yeah man take the Lab..be crazy not to...

[Georgia Boy]

I have had both and just lost my last two labs in the past year or so. I have had DD's for about three years now and with the type of hunting I do (everything there is a season for) the DD was the perfect fit. However, if I just hunted water fowl a few weekends a year and expected the rest of the time to be spent as a house dog, I would get the lab.

[Dennmor]

The better established the gene pool is the greater the chances of getting what you want. A rare breed is nice but if you have to work at teaching it to hunt rather then the dog only needing exposure to hunting it takes some of the enjoyment out of it.
Teaching a dog to retreive dummies is one thing getting the prey drive needed for a successful and satisfying hunt is another.
If duck hunting is the primary hunting a lab would be the better choice.They are a specialist and duck hunting is their specialty.
just my 2cents

adogslife

Where has the idea come from, that because a breed has a small gene pool here in the States, it lacks consistency and prey drive in the offspring? That might be arguably true for one or two breeds (though I doubt it) but in general I think it's nonsense to say that.
I've seen this opinion stated a few times of late. It seems to me the potential to run into inconsistent examples of a breed is more likely in the more "popular" breeds.

I'm not trying to start anything here. I'm just a bit concerned about the old adage: "If something gets said often enough it will be considered true, whether it is or not”.

dennmor

[ezzy333]

I think you have mis-interupted the statements. The smaller the gene pool the less variation there is so consequently it is harder to find a dog that is much better than the next one. That doesn't mean they are not good but if you need to improve them it is hard to do. And in practically all cases the dogs that are rarer here in this country have not possessed the qualities that the people felt would fill their needs and because of that they tend to be behind qualities we look for in our dogs. There again it doesn't mean they are not good dogs but for most people they may not be as well bred or advanced as the dogs that have been here in greater number for a lot more years. And it is harder to improve them when there is such limited opportunities for breeding.

Thats my thought at least,

Ezzy

[Gezer]

I agree with GB, I have had labs and chessies...then transitioned to GWP's to DD's...If you are looking to do several different types of hunting...I would look at the ugly dogs...if you are ducks only....get a chessie

[12guns]

Ok, talked to the wife and got the ok to get a lab! I will own a GWP or DD one of these days, but for now, I can't pass up this deal. Yeah, I realize I'll look like every other duck hunter out there, but hopefully I'll have a dog that will out perform theirs! My uncle gave me a training book, "water dog". After 15 years, I finally cracked it open. Really good info. Can't wait. The pups will be ready in about 45 days . Thanks again for all the replies. I have no doubt I would be happy with a DD, just not right now. Plus I would hate to deprive it of all it's potential as an "all around" hunting dog.

[mcbosco]

you seem like me, very willing to work with the wife on this decision, so in that regard you made the right choice, because the Lab is probably better in a family situation, much like my dog

oh what color is it?

[windswept]

Congratulations on your decision!
Glad to read you are including your wifes feelings! We can all act tough and pretend our wives have no say in our dog addiction but the truth is she has to live with the beast when you're not out hunting.
Fun times ahead!

[12guns]

Don't know the color yet. I like chocolate, or even yellow, but depends on what comes out. Most of his pups, if not all are black. For $100 i'll take pink or blue...Been reading up on "water dog". Really good info there. I'm sure over the next year or so I'll have plenty of questions. Sure am glad I found this site!

[jt807]

What's the difference between Drats and Wirehairs?

You can't tell them apart from looking.

My understaning is that all Drats are wirehairs, but all wirehairs are not drats.

Drats have extensive naturaly ability tests that they have to pass at certain ages in order to be be breedable. So when you buy a Drat puppy, you know that its parents have a certain level of natural, genetic, abilities. Doesn't mean that you can't get a wirehair with the same or better abilities. I know some guys that breed them, and if you were going to get a wirehair, that would be the way to go. This is not the same as an AKC title. AKC titles show that someone was able to train the dog good enough to get a title. There are some good trainers out there they can train dogs for titles. Doesn't mean that you or I could have trained those same dogs to perform at a decent level.

They are tested for, I believe, the 5 following traits: pointing, nose, tracking, search, and cooperation. They are tested when they are basically untrained, to prove that it has inherited, not trained, ability.