Tail Flagging?

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:32 am

I took my pup (one year old) to a game farm saturday and he would flag his tail while on point. He would stop as soon as I would get in front of him to flush the birds.
He has never done this before why would he start now?

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:01 am

Not that I am an expert, one of my setters will flag when pointing and unsure of the location of the bird. She will flag at times if the bird is moving. She seems to firm up when I move around to the front. At your dogs age it could just be excitement and or apprehension, wanting to do a good job and get his bird. Or he could just be jerkin your chain. You did not mention if he held his point till you flushed the bird.SDGORD

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:20 am

Yes he held all but one time. He tried to bust it as I was kicking the brush.
He usually hits a point pretty hard but these points were not. He kinda walked into them.

ckfowler · Post by **ckfowler** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:44 am

My 6 yr old setter flags like a whirligig on planted birds but is rock solid on wild or released birds. Used to bother me but not enough to make me work real hard correcting it. Real issue in competitions or if they start busting but otherwise, just may be a smart pup.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:31 am

Your dog is young. Make sure it's having fun.

You might also try to get him on some wild birds to see if he flags there or not.

Regards,

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:53 pm

Why so much concern especially at that young of an age? At least you know they're having fun. I guess I am just interested in why tail flagging is a problem? Sure, it might not look as stylish but big whoopy doo da!! :roll:

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:35 am

Could be several things.
Pen birds that smell different than wild ones.
Human scent lingering on the handled pen bird.
Poor scenting conditions.
Inherient in some dogs.
Birds may have moved and the dog is telling you that they have.
Handler talking to much while approaching the dog making it nervous and flagging.
Trainer putting to much pressure or discipline on the dog is usually the biggest cause.
I guess it doesn't bother some hunters if their dog is flagging, personally wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like my hunting buddies to see my dogs flag, and if you field trial you're not going to win with a flaggy dog.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:59 am

The reason tail flagging is a concern to me is because this dog will be competed with (eventually).
I know he is young still and I have put very little pressure on him.
I was just bothered that he did that with every bird he pointed that day.
I took him out and ran him last night, 3points and not once did he flag... must have been something to do with the birds that day.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:07 am

Dirtysteve wrote:The reason tail flagging is a concern to me is because this dog will be competed with (eventually).

ahh, thanks. I didn't know style counted in competition I've never trialed. I couldn't see why flagging would hinder a good hunting dog. If they find the birds and don't bust on them thats good enough for me. I've never seen my girls flag, but I have seen other dogs do it. Other people pointed it out to me before and I couldn't figure out what the big deal was. Thanks

goddog · Post by **goddog** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:16 pm

. I couldn't see why flagging would hinder a good hunting dog. If they find the birds and don't bust on them thats good enough for me.

If all thing being equal, a flagging dog competing next to a non-flagging dog, which one do you think is the better dog? when the competition gets tough, everything counts.

Flagging also can be a genetic problem, in that case, its a fault thats hard to fix. 98% of all trial are run on planned birds now days, IMO, a competition dog need to talerate the wild as well as liberated birds.

Steve,
Based on your post, i don't think your dog would have that problem down the road.

SC

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:45 pm

I dont know if this would help buy maybe try using a remote launcher and as soon as he starts to move pop it and let the bird fly away. he will think his movement caused the bird to fly.

rschuster54303` · Post by **rschuster54303`** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:47 pm

I have seen this happen if the bird gets wet, and/or if a dog had mouthed the bird.

Example, Dog caught a bird at a Hunt test the owner took it from the dog and tossed it back into the tall grass. The judge was mildly upset. The dog that found the bird next run flagged on it but not on its second bird.

Just a thought

Rob

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:48 pm

What kind of training pressure have you used to staunch your 1 year old dog? Sometimes they will flag when pressure it applied? I see very few dogs that flag because of genetics, maybe 5 % or less. Sometimes voice commands will put a dog to flagging especially when the dog is working scent.

Mo

goddog · Post by **goddog** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:15 pm

My speculation is based on my recent and limited experience with 2 red setters.
These 2 derbies are littermates with separate owners, they came to me about a month apart, both dog flagged enormously from day one and mature at a very slow rate. Since the problem occurred with both dogs, I was really curious to learn about their back round. So, I asked one of the owners if I could speak to the breeder and it’s from their breeder I learned the dam also flagged. The part that troubled me the most is she also told me the Dam was their best producer and she didn’t think the flagging was a big deal. From that, I assume the flagging in these pups are most definitely genetic. Another thing that stuck to me about these 2 pups is both have dark purple pigment on their tongue, not that I think the tongue has to do with their tail wag, but is this common among that breed ?

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:48 pm

Maurice
I have staunched him up by check cord and popping birds when he moves. I then set him back style him up and praise. I never talk to him in the field only to call him back once in awhile.
He has been steady for some time now so I haven't been running him on the cord.
Gdog
That is very interesting

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:18 pm

From the picture he is a classy looking dog, high on both ends.. I would say that he might be wanting to knock the bird but knows he is not suppose to, from his training.. It sounds like your training routine to staunch him is a very good one. This is only a guess with out seeing the dog work but I think he will stop flagging on his own as he matures and settles into to being a broke dog. I would keep working him but I would not over do the bird work trying to fix the flagging problem.. With alot of my dogs once I get them advanced in training then I back off with the number of bird contacts. I will run the dog and have 1 good find and that is enough for that day. Another thing I will do is work the advanced dogs on a covey of planted quail, way more scent and the dog really get up on thier toes when I flush a covey in front of them. Working on single birds that are planted can cause a dog to get bored, they get to thinking birds are like dead men they come 1 to a box. I think you will work your dog through this stage and be alright, keep us posted.

Mo

Richard *UT* · Post by Richard *UT* » Wed Nov 02, 2005 12:18 am

Dirty, where did you get your dog from? He is a great looking dog. What part of Utah ar you from? And one last one. Is tail flagging a wagging tail. :scratch:

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:07 am

Richard
PM sent

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:27 pm

This is going to sound crazy but it works. Shoot some birds in front of her on the GROUND . Work her where she can see the birds and just walk up and shoot them . If you use pigeons just pull some wing feathers so they walk around.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:41 pm

Dirtysteve-

Just a guess, but is that dog related to Sonny?

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:53 pm

Wagon
He is a direct son of sonny...now you have me interested as to why?

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:39 pm

Dirtysteve wrote:Wagon
He is a direct son of sonny...now you have me interested as to why?

Cuz he is not worth feeding and would be better off out in some Duchesne Co area!

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:00 am

Hehehe
That was a good one TAK
You may have a chance to have him for awhile just to help me finish him off. We'll have to talk about it.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:24 am

Dirtysteve-

the tail set is distinctive.