A few miscellaneous (and probably dumb) questions

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:03 pm

Okay I'm new at all this, but I feel like I'm making nice progress with Winnie, having shot my first bird over her at my friend's farm the other day. Having the anxiety of gunfire reaction behind me, I feel like the training will accelerate quickly, and become even more fun too! But there are a few small things I've been wondering about so I thought I'd throw them out here...

1. Next up I want to go to a preserve and have her hunt about six birds in one day, just to build on her experience. The place I want to go to said the cover is a little thick (not dead yet) for chukar to really fly well out of it. So she recommended pheasant. Winnie has encountered mostly chukar in our training, does this pose a problem? Or do you think we could make a seamless move to pheasant at this point? If so, should I show her one before sending her into the field after one?

2. How does rain effect the upland bird and the dog? Can a dog still pick up the scent? Is that a more 'advanced' scenario that a beginner dog would find too frustrating?

3. Speaking of moisture, the morning dew has been making me realize I need a pair of decent (not really expensive) waterproof hunting boots. Any recommendations?

4. I have two dead chukar in my freezer. What is the best use, if any, for these as a training aid?

Thanks in advance!

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:09 pm

I'll take a go at #2.

Rain , heavy dew definately affects the scent cone of a bird. Much harder for a dog to scent. With a young unbroken dog like yours , I would be concerned about the dog catching a bird. Wet birds don't fly well at all.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:27 pm

EddieF wrote:Okay I'm new at all this, but I feel like I'm making nice progress with Winnie, having shot my first bird over her at my friend's farm the other day. Having the anxiety of gunfire reaction behind me, I feel like the training will accelerate quickly, and become even more fun too! But there are a few small things I've been wondering about so I thought I'd throw them out here...

1. Next up I want to go to a preserve and have her hunt about six birds in one day, just to build on her experience. The place I want to go to said the cover is a little thick (not dead yet) for chukar to really fly well out of it. So she recommended pheasant. Winnie has encountered mostly chukar in our training, does this pose a problem? Or do you think we could make a seamless move to pheasant at this point? If so, should I show her one before sending her into the field after one?

2. How does rain effect the upland bird and the dog? Can a dog still pick up the scent? Is that a more 'advanced' scenario that a beginner dog would find too frustrating?

3. Speaking of moisture, the morning dew has been making me realize I need a pair of decent (not really expensive) waterproof hunting boots. Any recommendations?

4. I have two dead chukar in my freezer. What is the best use, if any, for these as a training aid?

Thanks in advance!

Eddie -

1) About the only thing you might be concerned about is a young dog getting spurred by a cockbird on a retrieve, if the bird wasn't quite dead yet. A load of 6's up the keester and a little care and that should be a non-event.

2 A shower or spit of rain can actually help scenting, but Sharon is right, rain will drastically diminish the scent cone, forcing the dog to work harder. At this juncture, i wouldn't worry too much abvout making your dog work hard for birds and I wouldn';t worry about how many she found. One or two good scent finds and I would consider it a terrific outing. If you are concerned, you could eyeball the bird planting, just to make sure you"steer" the dog in the right direction and "hesitate" or potter around in the vicinty of one bird until she gets scent.

Muck boots are pretty nice. They are fairly reasonable, they slip on and off in a heartbeat and are quite waterproof but they will not hold up like a hunting boot.

RayG

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:48 pm

RayGubernat wrote:
Eddie -

1) About the only thing you might be concerned about is a young dog getting spurred by a cockbird on a retrieve, if the bird wasn't quite dead yet. A load of 6's up the keester and a little care and that should be a non-event.

2 A shower or spit of rain can actually help scenting, but Sharon is right, rain will drastically diminish the scent cone, forcing the dog to work harder. At this juncture, i wouldn't worry too much abvout making your dog work hard for birds and I wouldn';t worry about how many she found. One or two good scent finds and I would consider it a terrific outing. If you are concerned, you could eyeball the bird planting, just to make sure you"steer" the dog in the right direction and "hesitate" or potter around in the vicinty of one bird until she gets scent.

Muck boots are pretty nice. They are fairly reasonable, they slip on and off in a heartbeat and are quite waterproof but they will not hold up like a hunting boot.

RayG

I've been so focused on the dog and the gunfire that I have given little thought to actual loads and whatnot. The other day I used my 16 ga. because I wanted her first full shotgun blast to go well and I thought it'd be a tad quieter than my 12. But maybe if I'm working with pheasants I should bring the 12? Or maybe choke the 16 a little tighter?

I actually have slip on muck boots I use to just throw on to go out to the barn or whatever. Works great but I'd want something that laces up and would be snug and comfortable for walking distances.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:02 pm

I prefer LL Bean's Maine Hunting shoes. You can put them through a wood chipper and send them back and either get a refund or a new pair no questions asked. They are light, waterproof and can be re-soled. I have 4 pairs and I think the newest pair is 10 years old.

I also like the uninsulated type so you can pick the sock that works best for the weather.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:06 pm

Are you speaking from experience? Did you put them through a wood chipper? What did they look like?

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:14 pm

funny sharon..you know what I mean...refund or new pair NO QUESTIONS ASKED.. I just asked my wife how old the ones I just had on are and she reminded me 18 years. We went to Maine on a trip and bought them at the store in Freeport when we first met. They need soles but if I send them back tomorrow and asked for a new pair LL Bean wouldn't even offer to just re-sole them for free. I would just get a new pair.

I know they cost more but they are totally worth it.

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:15 pm

Is this the one? And if you use a Craftsman wood chipper and ruin it with the shoes you can send it back also!

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... ndicator=4

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:43 pm

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... 1&nav=gnro

LOL, LL Bean unconditionally guarantees everything no matter what shape or how old it is when you return it.

I like the 10 inch boots best for hunting. There are lots of great choices but these are go to boots for me. There may be better boots for extreme conditions but for upland hunting these are perfect.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:05 pm

I will take a shot at the boots as well. I guess it depends on where you live as well. Sal, I just took a look at the Maine boots from your link and they are nice but out where I live a cactus would go right through them and they would probably be worn out in a year walking through yucca, cactus and mesquite. I personally like the Danner Sharptail Covey zipbacks but a buddy of mine likes the Cabelas Brittany boots. Just depends on your taste I guess.

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:49 pm

EddieF wrote:1. Next up I want to go to a preserve and have her hunt about six birds in one day, just to build on her experience. The place I want to go to said the cover is a little thick (not dead yet) for chukar to really fly well out of it. So she recommended pheasant. Winnie has encountered mostly chukar in our training, does this pose a problem? Or do you think we could make a seamless move to pheasant at this point? If so, should I show her one before sending her into the field after one?

Eddie,

How old is your pup? If it’s under 6 months, I wouldn’t be that eager to put it on pheasants. Pheasants can spur a young pup, and scare it to the point it doesn’t want anything else to do with pheasants. I know plenty of pups have cut their teeth on pheasants, but if I had a choice, pheasants wouldn’t be where I’d start a pup.

EddieF wrote:2. How does rain effect the upland bird and the dog? Can a dog still pick up the scent? Is that a more 'advanced' scenario that a beginner dog would find too frustrating?

Scenting conditions in the rain can be funny. It can depend on how hard it’s raining, if the temp is rising, falling or stable. It will also depend on how much wind you have. I have hunted several times in the rain and done well. I have also hunted when it was raining or misting, the temp was falling, and there was no wind. The scent was sinking to the ground, and not moving. The dogs were right on top of the birds before they smelled them.

EddieF wrote:3. Speaking of moisture, the morning dew has been making me realize I need a pair of decent (not really expensive) waterproof hunting boots. Any recommendations?

Danner Pronghorn are pretty good waterproof boots that aren’t too expensive. Don’t buy footwear just because they’re cheap. Most cheap boots won’t last more than a couple of seasons, and you’ll just end up buying more. Soon, you will have matched the price of a good pair of boots, and you’ll still have a cheap pair. A good pair of boot will last you several years. I have a couple of pairs of Danners that are at about 10 years old, and they are still waterproof, and in pretty good condition.

EddieF wrote:4. I have two dead chukar in my freezer. What is the best use, if any, for these as a training aid?

I’d use the dead chukar for drags (tracking training) or FF training.

Ditch__Parrot · Post by **Ditch__Parrot** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:58 pm

I bought myself a pair of the Cabelas Brittany boots (http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/postin ... 69&t=20765) last year for Christmas. I like them alot. Just the right amount of insulation, super light, built well and dirt cheap. I've put quite a few miles on them and I'm just liking them more each time I wear them. They do have their downfalls though. Insoles that they came with I ripped out and replaced after the first time I wore them. Also the tread on them is not aggresive at all. Thats good in that they don't get heavy with mud but be carefull going up a steep bank with dew on the ground.

I also have a pair of Cabela's Outfitter series boots that I've had for about 5 years now. Great boots. I have the 7 inch non-insulated ones http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... JS=truebut I originally didn't plan on using them as hunting boots but I have done a ton of scouting and a bit of dog training in them. Also they have been pressed into service for hunting many times. I was very tempted to pick up the 9" Outfitter series boots http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true when I bought new hunting boots. I just decided to try something lighter.

Then of course I still have the old pair of Belleville's that I gave up on ever wearing out. http://www.bellevilleshoe.com/ . Heavy but good luck wearing them out.

All are waterproof.

Prairie Hunter · Post by **Prairie Hunter** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:01 pm

EddieF wrote: I've been so focused on the dog and the gunfire that I have given little thought to actual loads and whatnot. The other day I used my 16 ga. because I wanted her first full shotgun blast to go well and I thought it'd be a tad quieter than my 12. But maybe if I'm working with pheasants I should bring the 12? Or maybe choke the 16 a little tighter?

Where are you planning to hunt? If it's preserve birds, a 16 O/U choked IM/Mod will be fine with # 6 shot. If you are hunting wild roosters, I would choke it IM/Mod or IM/IM Mod. with # 5 shot. If you are shooting a gun with one barrel I would choke it IM for preserve birds and Mod for wild birds.

I shoot a 16 on everything except ducks & geese. I go to my 12 gauge for those.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:57 am

tommyboy72 wrote:I will take a shot at the boots as well. I guess it depends on where you live as well. Sal, I just took a look at the Maine boots from your link and they are nice but out where I live a cactus would go right through them and they would probably be worn out in a year walking through yucca, cactus and mesquite. I personally like the Danner Sharptail Covey zipbacks but a buddy of mine likes the Cabelas Brittany boots. Just depends on your taste I guess.

Tommy I would agree with you, they are pretty much designed for conditions and terrain you find in the northeast through the midwest, EddieF is from gentile Virginia, LOL

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:39 am

The boots you suggested should work perfectly for the gilded hill and dale of Virginia then Sal. Looks like just the ticket for grouse hunters.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:52 am

I love the Maine type boots for lightness and conveinence but I don't like them for sweating. My feet get wet and cold in them. I saw a pair of Red Setter boots on sale the other day for 50 bucks. Insulated moderately and water proof plus they lace up tight and support your ankles. I love that type of boot.

Ezzy

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:19 am

Thank you for all the great responses. I'll address a few of them here...

As for the age of the pup, Winnie is 15 months now. But even though she's pointed a handful of birds she's only had the one shot bird. I'm leaning toward waiting a little for the frost to kill the cover and just sticking with chukar at this point. Though I am anxious to get that first photograph with some pheasant too! Maybe I'll throw one pheasant in the mix at the end of the day or something, if all goes well with the chukar I can plant the pheasant.

Good, interesting info on hunting in wet conditions. As my experience grows I'll build my own mental database about what happens in certain conditions, but I have very little hunting experience and still haven't even really made a connection with my dog's body language as she gets close to birds. But the journey is more fun and rewarding than I even imagined, and I look forward to the challenges and successes ahead.

Wow, lots of great boot suggestions, I'm looking into all of them! I am in Virginia, the preserves and areas I'll likely do most of my hunting and training are in northern Virginia and Maryland, including Maryland's eastern shore. But again, as we get into this further, who knows where it will take us! In May I will be taking Winnie to Michigan for a UKC TAN test and will probably hunt with some friends up there. I also have friends that go to Maine every year to hunt, but mostly I'll be around this area.

I have two bird guns, my 16 ga. Model 12 that I am much more comfortable and accurate with, but I find it difficult to find ANY variation of the standard field loads I can sometimes find at "bleep"'s sporting goods. I also have a wonderful O/U 12 ga. Winchester 101 that I want to build my confidence in because it's just an awesome gun.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:09 am

Eddie -

FWIW, I shot tons of preserve pheasants over pointing dogs with a 20 Ga. Browning humpback choked Improved Cylinder with high base 6's and most of the birds died in the air.

My favorite lace up boot is a Rocky. I think the style is/was Cornstalker. It as a Gore Tex bootie for waterproof and heavy duty cordura uppers instead of leather. Because of the synthetic upper they are about the lightest boots out there and the shallow tread does not pick up a ton of mud like some of the deeply cleated ones will. They fit my fat foot pretty well and that counts more than most anything else.

RayG

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:17 am

ezzy333 wrote:I love the Maine type boots for lightness and conveinence but I don't like them for sweating. My feet get wet and cold in them. I saw a pair of Red Setter boots on sale the other day for 50 bucks. Insulated moderately and water proof plus they lace up tight and support your ankles. I love that type of boot.

Ezzy

some people find they sweat in them when its warm, thats a good point, but they are a classic, i remember seeing a pair made in the 20's in an antique store in Vermont but they were not my size, i should have bought them anyway...

Oh Eddie if you do buy them they run 1 size big

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:22 am

I worry about buying any clothing online, especially boots. I might take a ride to Bass Pro this weekend and try on a bunch.

I like the idea of the warmth coming from the sock, getting a lightly or uninsulated boot. That makes good sense to me.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:26 am

yeah i like the flexibilty of socks and uninsulated boots are lighter and dry faster...why are you afraid to buy online? size?

sal

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:29 am

I wish we had Bass Pro or Cabela's, not a one in NJ, and "bleep" is horrible

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:39 am

mcbosco wrote:yeah i like the flexibilty of socks and uninsulated boots are lighter and dry faster...why are you afraid to buy online? size?

sal

Size, comfort, aesthetics, shipping costs.

There's a Bass Pro about an hour from me, so I'll go there from time to time. Cabelas is 3 hours so I won't go there unless there's another excuse like sometimes I'll go trout fishing in that area. Whenever I'm traveling I seem to come across one or the other. I love Cabelas. Awesome store.

I just remembered there is also a Gander Mountain even closer than Bass Pro. Can't recall seeing a good clothing and boot selection or not though.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:51 am

All righty: Screw the LL Bean Hunting Shoe. If you like slipping around getting wet, sweating, getting cold, feell like you are skating on a fresh hockey rink, no support, chinnese made, get them. I have slid down way too many mountain sides when just a little snow hits to enjoy thos blasted boots. That chain link tread is a joke. My folks always thought they were what a Maine boy should be wearing. Would not be caught dead whereing those death traps.
There warranty is not as good as it once was because of people putting their stuff in wood chippers and buying stuff at flea markets and trading them in.

Irish setters, Danners, Rocky's all make great upland boots.
I love the Irish setter Elk Tracker. rugged water proof comfortable. $159 Gander Mountain.

Eddie: Where are you?
Do you have access to any wild birds, like woodcock or Grouse?
I would start getting this pup on wild birds. It is far into the proper time.
There are some dogs like my Buster that are mudders.. (the worse the conditions the better they do).
Generally rain will knock down the size of the scent cone but the scent is stronger, and the birds generally hold tighter or run.
Eat the chuckar.

Let that little dog get wild. 16 doesn't matter 12 , standard upland loads. 6 for pheasants highbrass and 7-12 highbrass for grouse and woodcock. Thats the ticket.

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:06 am

Ruffshooter wrote: Eddie: Where are you?
Do you have access to any wild birds, like woodcock or Grouse?
I would start getting this pup on wild birds. It is far into the proper time.

I'm in Virginia, if you look on a map, I'm near where MD, WV and VA all meet. I don't really know of any wild birds near me. I do have a friend on the eastern shore of MD who hunts woodcock near his house in, I think, January? have to ask about that...

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:21 am

Eddie:
You should be seeing some Woodcock in the areas soon if not already. They have been moving through here since the rains and the cold snap. Even in VA. You are good to go. I have a friend in Front Royal that finds a few grouse around.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:37 am

EddieF, I am with you on buying boots on line. I learned my lesson after having to return boots a couple of times. I know what size I need, but different brands fit different in the same size.

I think it is great that you are being cautious and taking your time with your dog, but I believe it is time to stop worrying and take that dog hunting as often as possible. Wild birds would be the best if you have access to them. I would not worry about putting her on pheasants at this point. You will not have to worry as much about her catching one, they will fly better and they will probably increase her prey drive. JMO

The 16guage is as good as any. The proper load is more important than the guage of the gun.

I wish you and Winnie the best,

Charlie

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:04 am

boots are nothing..I got my wife online, seriously

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:18 am

Ruffshooter wrote:Eddie:
You should be seeing some Woodcock in the areas soon if not already. They have been moving through here since the rains and the cold snap. Even in VA. You are good to go. I have a friend in Front Royal that finds a few grouse around.

Well, let me reiterate how new I am at all this. I wouldn't know where to go for wild birds. And while I'm at it, I'll go ahead and confess that there could be woodcock visiting my bird feeders and I wouldn't recognize them!

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:19 am

Eddie -

I know it was just said somewhat tongue in cheek but...you won't find woodcock at a birdfeeder.

Seriously, as I recall you lived near a waterway. Woodcock feed on worms and probe soft, moist earth for them with their long(3") beaks. That is why they migrate south in the colder weather. They ain't woodpeckers and can't bore into frozen ground all that well.

If you have some low lying, borderline swampy areas especially near creeks, check for splats which are quarter and half dollar sized splashes of white bird doo. Woodcock tend to leave these around where they are feeding and such. I would suspect with this cold weather, they will be moving through soon if not already. Woodcock can be a wonderful experience for a dog as they usually come in bunches, let the dog get fairly close before they flush and then, when they flush, they don't fly all that far and can usually be worked again. Ten or twenty woodcock contacts in a four hour hunt is not unreasonable if the flight is in and it can teach a young dog a lot of things in a hurry. The only thing is that some dogs do not point woodcock right away. They apparently smell quite different form other gamebirds. However, once the dog understands that you are interested in those little brown buzz bombs, they will generally point the heck out of them.

There should be some grouse west of you as you head into the panhandle of MD and W. VA. You might want to contact a state wildlife biologist for MD and W.VA, and even VA. The fish and game folks have wildlife biologists on staff and my experience(in NJ) has been that they are only too happy to help someone find birds to hunt, if they can. The trick is getting to the right people.

Woodcock are a migratory bird, so you will need a HIP # if you intend to shoot them.

RayG

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:36 am

RayGubernat wrote:Eddie -

I know it was just said somewhat tongue in cheek but...you won't find woodcock at a birdfeeder.

Seriously, as I recall you lived near a waterway. Woodcock feed on worms and probe soft, moist earth for them with their long(3") beaks. That is why they migrate south in the colder weather. They ain't woodpeckers and can't bore into frozen ground all that well.

If you have some low lying, borderline swampy areas especially near creeks, check for splats which are quarter and half dollar sized splashes of white bird doo. Woodcock tend to leave these around where they are feeding and such. I would suspect with this cold weather, they will be moving through soon if not already. Woodcock can be a wonderful experience for a dog as they usually come in bunches, let the dog get fairly close before they flush and then, when they flush, they don't fly all that far and can usually be worked again. Ten or twenty woodcock contacts in a four hour hunt is not unreasonable if the flight is in and it can teach a young dog a lot of things in a hurry. The only thing is that some dogs do not point woodcock right away. They apparently smell quite different form other gamebirds. However, once the dog understands that you are interested in those little brown buzz bombs, they will generally point the heck out of them.

There should be some grouse west of you as you head into the panhandle of MD and W. VA. You might want to contact a state wildlife biologist for MD and W.VA, and even VA. The fish and game folks have wildlife biologists on staff and my experience(in NJ) has been that they are only too happy to help someone find birds to hunt, if they can. The trick is getting to the right people.

Woodcock are a migratory bird, so you will need a HIP # if you intend to shoot them.

RayG

Yeah I was trying to be funny there. We do live on a river which is very low right now. Lots of geese therein. But too low to be swampy at this point. I will start researching state agencies for info.

And many people have told me I need to get her out hunting and on wild birds. But keep in mind, a week ago I didn't even know if she was gun shy! But now that I believe we're okay there, I do want to take advantage of this still young season and get some experience in for both of us!

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:59 pm

Sal, I wish I would have gotten my wife online that way I could have returned her.

Just kidding I love my wife but I would really like to here the story sometime.

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:46 am

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/moosehorn/ ... odcock.htm
http://www.timberdoodlespinone.com/What ... oodle.html

Eddief.
A little more on the woodcock. They also like younger alder patches, (the older ones have more acidic soil which the last woodcock I talked to, told me makes the worms bitter. Not only in swampy lands but in young sapling growths like young maples, birches, Poplar(aspen). Some times you can go stream side look for the south facing side go to the evergreens, like junipers or very young spruce, hemlock, and pine growths and you can find them tucked away soaking in the sun and or resting. If there is a storm the night before or you see there is a cold snap north of you find the swamps, saplings and streams and hunt.

Many times when they take off you will see them go up then flatten out before they scoot away. Also the males vibrant browns and black, are smaller than the females, the females have more muted colors. They also kind of make a twitering sound as they fly away. On occasion you will even here them making noise on the ground like a warning or nervousness. More times than not you will not see them until they fly.

Hunt in light rain too.

Good luck.
Rick

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:59 am

mcbosco wrote:EddieF is from gentile Virginia

and there all this time I thought Virginia was Jewish....

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:23 am

Greg Jennings wrote:
mcbosco wrote:EddieF is from gentile Virginia
and there all this time I thought Virginia was Jewish....

Ha that was my thought when I saw that. bwahaha

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:03 am

i have probably should have used the word "provincial" instead, "gentile" is not used anymore to mean "gentle"

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:45 pm

Eddie, I want to take a moment and give some warning about the gamefarm pheasants. I would not shoot the first pheasant Winnie finds. Let him smell,find and if he points it, go in and flush but no gunfire. Let it go. Watch his reaction, did it get him excited or did he wonder what the heck was that? If he got excited and chased the bird let a shot go in the air as he is chasing and you should be good to go. I just want you to avoid having the dog find scent and follow this scent he has never smelled before and have a point and you flush and out comes this big old gaudy bird cackling and making noise and then the 12ga. goes off over his head. It is too much for some dogs. Because you had some reservations about gunfire and the dog, I would rather see you be cautious than eager to kill a pheasant.
You are going to be in a new place{gamefarm} with scent all over, with a bird Winnie has not been exposed too,{my take} in thick cover which tells me you are going to be close to the dog. Be careful. I have seen the negative results too many times to count.

Personally I would recommend a 20 ga. Less noise and if you do not kill it dead, it will give Winnie an opportunity to track wounded game. It may give him an opportunity to track and dispatch the pheasant. This will boost his confidence. Gamefarm pheasants usually don`t have much for spurs so getting spurred is not like getting spurred by a 2 year old bird.
Be careful and Good Luck.
Let us know how it goes.

EddieF · Post by **EddieF** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:55 pm

Vman wrote:Eddie, I want to take a moment and give some warning about the gamefarm pheasants. I would not shoot the first pheasant Winnie finds. Let him smell,find and if he points it, go in and flush but no gunfire. Let it go. Watch his reaction, did it get him excited or did he wonder what the heck was that? If he got excited and chased the bird let a shot go in the air as he is chasing and you should be good to go. I just want you to avoid having the dog find scent and follow this scent he has never smelled before and have a point and you flush and out comes this big old gaudy bird cackling and making noise and then the 12ga. goes off over his head. It is too much for some dogs. Because you had some reservations about gunfire and the dog, I would rather see you be cautious than eager to kill a pheasant.
You are going to be in a new place{gamefarm} with scent all over, with a bird Winnie has not been exposed too,{my take} in thick cover which tells me you are going to be close to the dog. Be careful. I have seen the negative results too many times to count.

Personally I would recommend a 20 ga. Less noise and if you do not kill it dead, it will give Winnie an opportunity to track wounded game. It may give him an opportunity to track and dispatch the pheasant. This will boost his confidence. Gamefarm pheasants usually don`t have much for spurs so getting spurred is not like getting spurred by a 2 year old bird.
Be careful and Good Luck.
Let us know how it goes.

Thanks. I called today and booked the field for next Sunday morning. But I told her I'd call next week to finalize the birds I want.

I'm leaning more toward just sticking with chukar, building on the positive experience we just had. And if you saw the video, that cover was REALLY thick. So if the woman's only reservation is that it'll be hard for the chukar to fly well out of it, well Winnie will hold a point on 'whoa' long enough for me to get that bird in the air. Everything being so new, I'm still mindful of setting her up for success as much as possible.

what I might do is 4 or 5 chukar, then have them plant one pheasant at the far end of the field and do what you describe. If she's weird about it, let it go, hopefully we have a positive, productive day under our belts already. But if she seems good with it, what the heck, put it down.

Man I just love my 16 ga. and I shoot well with it, I don't know about switching guns at this point. Besides, Winnie is named after Winchester! What would she think if I bring a Remington to her first preserve hunt!

Vman · Post by **Vman** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:51 pm

Besides, Winnie is named after Winchester! What would she think if I bring a Remington to her first preserve hunt!

Winchesters are for hunting wild birds, Remingtons are for game farms, she might as well learn that right off the bat!

just kidding Remington fans.