WH pointing griffon vs. French Brittney

[vanessacr]

Can someone enlighten me to what would be some good and bad points on wh pointing griffons vs french brittneys?
thanks Or maybe even the llewelin setter ?
We want a close ranging versatile dog, good with kids and youth hunters. Hunting mainly chukar, grouse, and pheasant.

[texscala]

I own an FB and often hunt with a Griffon. Both dogs get the job done. I know my FB is great with kids and the guy I hunt with has young kids so I am sure his is too.

Here is my limited experience with both.

FB: Not always close ranging but most are (mine will get out to about 1/3 mile). Very small and affectionate, must live indoors with the family. Very nice looking and a great home dog. Versatile in that it will retrieve in water, loves birds, and will point.

Negatives: Very smart which means very manipulative. Softer, does not need to be yelled or hacked on. Also mine seems to have softer pads than most dogs. Not going to make a great waterfowl dog when it is extremely col

Griffon. Big, Harry, Ugly. That said they find birds, retrieve everything (rabbits, squirrels, ducks in a frozen lake). They are the more versatile of the two in my opinion. They will tear through anything and look for birds. While the FB may not like to get into the thick nasty thorny stuff the Griffon will dive in no matter what.

Negatives: Ugly (eye of the beholder), and they seem to be more negatively effected by the heat. They also seem a bit closer than I like.

[mcbosco]

Spinoni are the kings-of-close hunting and temperament-wise they are therapy-dog docile, and very quiet in the house as well. Size might be a draw-back for you since the two dogs you mentioned are both considerably smaller. The don't respond well to yelling either and they will hunt their way pretty much, which is scent-stalk-tip-toe at a slower pace than most. They also keep tabs on the hunter more than most dogs, at least thats my observation, so they are less independent.

Mine is more active than most, but he will work at a fast, elongated trot rather than run.

[Shadow]

cracking up- poster asks WHPG vs FB and we get what- a trotter as the best

[mcbosco]

"We want a close ranging versatile dog, good with kids and youth hunters. Hunting mainly chukar, grouse, and pheasant"


shadow maybe you missed the most important part of the question

[ezzy333]

"We want a close ranging versatile dog, good with kids and youth hunters. Hunting mainly chukar, grouse, and pheasant"


shadow maybe you missed the most important part of the question

Can someone enlighten me to what would be some good and bad points on wh pointing griffons vs french brittneys?
thanks Or maybe even the llewelin setter ?
We want a close ranging versatile dog, good with kids and youth hunters. Hunting mainly chukar, grouse, and pheasant.

If I remember my English classes I think the qualifications are stated so you can make comments about those characteristics between the two breeds. I didn't see Spinones or Brits or GSP's mentioned as in the mix.

Lets let the people who have some experence with the breeds give our new poster the info he is seeking and save our promotions for some other more appropriate place and try to keep this thread on track.

Thank you

Ezzy

[BigShooter]

One son has a FB & I would say texscala's comments fit my son's FB to a T.

[vanessacr]

I did get some useful information, so thank you. Any opinions on the Llewellin Setter? And maybe some more on the WH griffon vs. French Brittney. This is going to be a big choice for our family and I can't seem to find a whole lot of info on the WH Griffon to compare with some of our other choices.

[BigShooter]

Check out the info in this poll: http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 87&t=12029

There are reasons why certain breeds are so popular. Without a poll with a 95% confidence rating, offhand I'd say IMO more dogs of all breeds are owned by families than are just purchased and left with a professional for trialing or showing.

[Ruffshooter]

In my opinion: It is easier to get a good hunting dog from French Brits. My dogs will hit all kinds of cover no problems. I duck hunt with one of them. I like the FB, each one of mine has a distinctive personality, all are goofy. The one thing I would say is they are smart. Don't treat them like a soft dog. They are quite the opposite. They, as said, manipulate you into thinking they are soft and will be ruined if you are to hard on them. They can be hard headed like most breeds. You need to see through the facade. I like there quickness, desire to hunt, and their personalities. They take to Ruff hunting seamlessly. This is why I have them.

One must always have an even keel when training a dog. Different dogs take slightly different pressure or different levels of positive reinforcement to make them cooperate, comply etc.


I have seen some very nice WPHG, they have a lot of hair, very sweet, great noses. Tough dog. I have seen big runners and methodical dogs that won't go out more than 30 yards. Not very flashy as a rule. But In ND I saw one that I would have loved to have flashy hard charging etc. They are messy dogs though.

As far as close range goes, Really depends more on the breeders pairings, I have one french brit that is only a fifty yard dog, One other is 50 to 100 yards, The other is to heck and gone. (This is hunting Ruff Grouse woods) When in open fields like in Kansas. They all go out from 100 to 300 yards.

You can always reel a dog in but it is hard to get them to go out.
Pay close attention to the breeders in both groups. Find a highly recomended breeder that breeds for the traits you like.

[vanessacr]

It sounds like FB carry more versatility than I read about. Why is the WHPG considred messy? Are they clumsy, sloppy eaters, wet mouths. Can a FB be easily ruined if misunderstood during their training? Anyone care to reply on LLewellin Setters.
Again thanks for all the help.

[postoakshorthairs]

Anyone care to reply on LLewellin Setters.

I've only hunted behind a couple. Both were good dogs that ranged fairly close and handled phez and quail fine. Both retrieved naturally and backed naturally...but neither where what I would call versatile. I know that's not much info but it's all i have.

[Winglish]

Vanessacr, I love my Griff! Texscala pretty much summed him up. He hunts really well and retrieves anything that's been shot no matter where it lands. He sort of melts in the heat but lives for the winter and snow and does really nice water work. He's wonderful with children and every Griff I've met has the same friendly personality. They will welcome strangers into your home with licks and snuggles...not the guard dog type. This is an affectionate breed. The Griff owners I've met have described their dogs as "stoic". I think that fits. You won't know if they're hurt until you find blood. They can deal with a lot of pain and don't vocalize much. Mine was covered in porcupine quills once and never flinched or whined while I pulled the quills. He just stood there solemnly and allowed me to get the quills out. The comment about messiness is all about the beard. They drip water from the beard whenever they drink. Mine's an outside dog so that doesn't matter at all to me. I'm sure the dripping beard would be a concern for someone wanting an indoors dog.

[Ruffshooter]

Like any dog, if you do not know what you are doing and try to impart wisdom on your dog then they will also be confused. They are like any dog when training. Pick a system and stick to it. Repetion, success, reward, correction all in the right amounts and dogs succeed. Remember, well bred gun dogs or trial dogs have the hunt built in them. It is just your job to get their instincts to work with you and with the manners you desire.

There are fool proof dogs in all disiplines of hunting when it comes to training: These dogs bounce back from poor decisions or judgement on our part.
Retrievers: Labs
Pointing dogs: GSP

Don't worry about if you are going to ruin a dog,(I think more people that worry about ruining a dog, ruin a dog than if they don't) I am sure you will get a DVD, talk to folks join a training club or NAVHDA and learn before you buy your pup. You may also go to some different events and breeders and watch the dogs work so you know what you are looking at when you find a breeder you like with the type dog you like.

[snips]

I have really liked every FB I have trained. Do not know about versitility, but they are little birddogs:)

[ohmymy111]

I own 6 FBs at the moment. They are great companions when not hunting, very good with children and a pleasure to be around. I can not comment on the temperment on Griffons, have not been around that many, but I am sure Griffon owners will tell you they are great dogs.

As far as in the field, mine will range out 1/4 mile or so when we are hunting in Montana, or somewhere with wide open terrain. When the cover is thicker, they shorten up their range. They may be small but don't think for a second they aren't tough. Mine will go into or through anything, cattails, briars, buckbrush, they do it all.

I have hunted with one Griffon, and he was not as good of a hunter as my dogs. Now that is just one dog, so I would never make a generalization on the breed from that, it is just what I saw in that one dog. My dogs have hunted Pheasant, Ruffed, Sharptail, and Blue Grouse, Huns and Bobtail. Haven't had a chance to hunt Chukar yet. They handle them all well, and they look good doing it

If you are going to hunt a lot of waterfowl, and you are in a colder climate, I would go with the Griffon. My dogs will certainly do water retrieves, but they don't have the body mass, coat, and fat that some of the other breeds do. They are not meant to sit in a blind after a retrieve in cold water and cold temps, they need to run afterwards to keep their body temp up and to dry out their coat.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[vanessacr]

Everyone has been very helpful with their information and it is greatly appreciated. Can anyone recommend any books in regards to versatile hunting?

[WingmanCA]

Brittney? Isn't that the ditzy blond "entertatiner"? French Brittney, she sings Ooo-la-la!

If you're talking about a fine gundog, that would be a Brittany.

[Grange]

A training partner owns a WH Griffon. That dog can find birds and points well. The owner does say the dog does not like the heat, but is doing well duck hunting this year. I only have experience with brittanies rather than french brittanies so I can't comment.

[vanessacr]

I have heard a couple of times that the WH Griffon does not like the heat. I live in Utah and there are extremes in both cold and hot temps. Would this be a problem for the WH Griffon?

[Winglish]

vanessacr, pm sent.

[texscala]

Remember, well bred gun dogs or trial dogs have the hunt built in them. It is just your job to get their instincts to work with you and with the manners you desire.

I think a lot of people overlook this. Make sure you are getting a well bred dog. You can pick a great breed and if you don't end up with a well bred dog you will end up disappointed. As much as I love my FB I have seen a few that did not impress me. Figure out what you want and do lots of research, then do some more. Don't be in a hurry and try not to worry too much about price. I know what I like and want out of my dogs and it takes a long time to find it. The pup I have now was an 18 month process of research, emails, phone calls, and even a flight. That said I could not be happier with my dog. She is not what everyone would want in a dog but she is exactly what I wanted. I am about 18 months to 24 months away from adding another pup and have been doing research for a while now. My biggest obstacle is going to be convincing my wife we don't need a lab.

If you decide on a Griffon let me know. I can get you in contact with a good litter that is on the ground right now. I have hunted with the sire and he is a great dog.

[yakky'sgriff]

I have never hunted with an FB and my Griff is my first gundog so my experiences are limited. I have hunted my Griff on Blue grouse, Mtn quail, valley quail, phesant and waterfowl. I have been very happy. I also have three small children including 5 year old twins and an 18 month old plus a Yorkshire terrier. He has been great around them all. The comments about the heat have been absolutely true. The heat can really effect him. I have ran in hunt tests in 90 plus degrees but had to soak him down mid way through and the tests are short. When we hunt for several hours like usual I need to carry a lot of water or find ponds, creeks etc so he can cool down. My last couple of quail hunts have been warm (80's) and he heats up real quick. Later in the season in the cooler temps he hunts with no problems.

[vanessacr]

We are in no rush to purchase at this moment. This pup will be with us till death so us part and we want to make sure it is the right one. Unfortunetly I haven't found much literature on the Griff. I am currently reading a book called "How to Help Gun Dogs Help Themselves" by Joan Baily. The writter owned a Griff and it is mentioned in the book, but the book is over all very general. Looking online gives me very reptative info. If anyone knows of anybooks or informational sites please let me know. Or if there are any breeders in Utah ( that is where I am located) that would be willing to let me visit with them, again, please let me know. I would like to hunt behind some Griffs as well before we make our decession.
My husband has also said " there is a reason why FB are so much more popular than the Griff." I says that doesn't mean much when it comes to the right dog for us. Does any one keep their Griff in the house? How do they do, beside the beard mess.

[tdhusker]

The Setter is not really a versatile breed. They are upland bird finders. Great speed and grace, superb temperment when not hunting. Shedding nightmare in the house, I own one. A setter will retrieve a duck but that's really not what they're made for. Kinda like driving your corvette in the mud races.

I like French Britts but don't think you're getting a water dog there either. If you duck hunt where the water is warm, you can get by. They are a high energy, fun dog to upland hunt with excellent drive. The ones I've been around have excellent prey drive and speed for small dogs. I think they're more out-of-the-box ready to upland hunt than any of the pointing breeds I've been around. They hit the ground hunting.
I really like FB's but then again, I don't care for plodding, slow dogs at all and many guys think slow/close is the only way.

[vanessacr]

Can someone tell me why they would choose a FB over a WPG? Is there anything that sticks out more about the FBs vs. the WPG? A tilt the scale factor?
I hear positive things about both breeds. Most info. has been about the FB. I'm wondering why it is a dog of preference among most hunters.

[djloder]

The reason I bought my FB Or EB was because I know they make great house dogs and they want to please. The most important reason was because they are great versatile dogs and hunt really well. I also hunted behind a EB and saw what I liked and now im very pleased with my purchase.

[texscala]

I liked the fact that they live in the house calmly and turn it on outdoors. My dog is a couch potato most of the week and enjoys a nice 5 to 10 minute run in the evening. She hunts 1 to 2 days a week and during those times it is hard to believe it is the same dog that lives in my house.

I also like the fact that I could have 2 FBs and it would be the same amount of weight, and needed food as one Griffon. I love to upland hunt and when I get the waterfowl itch I go with my friends that have labs. If the waterfowl hunting were a bigger issue I would consider another breed.

A few things to consider since you live Utah (I do too). It will be hard to see your dog on point in the thick forest where you hunt Forest grouse, they will disappear in tall grass where sharp tail are. You have to have a system to locate your little dog on point. I am not sold on the Garmin and use a beeper collar to know when she is on birds. Unless you have access to private land, know a secret spot, or plan on visiting bird farms you can all but forget about pheasant hunting. Look into grouse and partridge and get use to hiking a lot and you will be fine.

If you want to see an FB or Griffon run let me know and I am sure we can get you a look at both breeds.

Here are a few pics of my pup in Utah






Here she is with my kids

[djloder]

I didnt know you could get a EB in purple

[ohmymy111]

I think you should try dying Jovi purple. I bet he could sneak up on Grouse and Woodcocks better that way

[Grange]

Can someone tell me why they would choose a FB over a WPG? Is there anything that sticks out more about the FBs vs. the WPG? A tilt the scale factor?
I hear positive things about both breeds. Most info. has been about the FB. I'm wondering why it is a dog of preference among most hunters.

From my limited experience the two differences I've seen are size and speed. I don't have enough knowledge to comment on range, but the FB I've seen have worked the ground faster than the WPG I've trained with. The WPG is larger than any of the FB's I've seen.

[Ruffshooter]

I duck hunt here in Maine. Do a lot of small pond shooting where the Brittany fits the canoe with me and the dekes, The one I use the most has enough coat and mass (48 Pounds) to handle most weather till the air temp is below 25's, He is not big enough for anything much colder. He is a black with white, (I think these black dogs dry out quicker, I think there coats are a bit stiffer also, which helps with the drying out).

I like the FB because they are just pure natural hunters, that adapt well to most situations and types of bird fluidly, They have great personalities, quicker, good retrievers as a rule, can run with most any dog in foot trials and certainly in hunt tests. I have never run any shooting dog or AA trials so I do not know about that, although I suspect Marks and Texacalas sound like they could. I think they can handle more diverse types of hunting weather, I have one even when kenneled out int he garage kennel she will go out side and lay out there even on 20 below days, yet when in good condion can hunt when in the seventies for hours. There are enough good breeders and true lines to know pretty well you will end up with a hunting dog and not a couch potato if you research your breeders and get recomendations. I like that they can shut if off when in the house (has more to do with what you allow in the house, (house and training manners etc.)

They are tough too. Little "C" two days ago was running the grouse woods, jumped over a blow down, little did she know there was a hole on the other side, she hit the hole which vaulted her forward into a downed log in the chest, she bounced back got her feet under her and continued on at the same pace with out a peepe other than a big belch of air when she hit. She had a bruise across her chest the next day, but no ill effects. All of my dogs have had something happen. (So have most breeds and owners, I just mention this because some think these little dogs are not tough.)

Now I also love GSP's very much.

Good luck,
Rick

[Jed]

I have a Griff, hunted over three from three different breedings, and my buddy has two EB's from two different breedings.

Here is my take FWIW. Please keep in mind that these are huge generalizations, and the individual breeding is of utmost importance.

The EB's definitely cover ground faster, and have more run. They handle high heat better.

The Griff's are more methodical and thorough in their search, but don't have quite the range. The Griff's were all a little more eager to please (train), and more mellow around the house.

The Griff's are more "Clingy", and ALWAYS want to be with you. I am about to refill my coffee cup and I'm sure I will be followed to and from the kitchen .

Both are great with kids and other dogs.

Start talking to breeders of both, spend as much time as you can looking at individual dogs, and one breeding/breed will probably strike the right chord. Get in touch with your local Navhda chapter. Go to some test/training days. It is a great way to observe different breeds and talk to people that own them. But keep in mind that we are all biased towards our own breed of choice.

[vanessacr]

Griff owners who have their dog in house with them: How are they in the home? Clumsy? Aware of their surroundings etc...
Beard mess not included

[Jed]

I could not ask for a better house dog. Our griff immediately mellows out as soon as he gets in the house (he is sleeping next to me as I type this). No matter how riled up I have him outside It's like he flips a switch and calms right down. None of the three I've spent time inside with were "Bulls in a china shop".

The beard thing is not that big a deal. They do drip after a drink, but it's just water. My grandson with a juicebox is far more of a concern.

The only negative thing I can say about their house behavior is that they can be very clingy. To us it is not a problem as we love having him around near us, but it could be for someone else.

I'll also send you a PM with my PH# in case you want to talk.