Gun Dog Forum

We'd really like input on a new blank pistol. The BBM 22 cal blank pistol we have is misfiring more often than not. It was especially frustrating during the training sessions this weekend.

Here's our main criteria:
- 22 cal
- double action
- reasonably priced

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Take care,

If you want a quality pistol, the best one is the one made on the old H&R pattern, which is now called the NEF. I have a .32 that is showing no signs of slowing down at around 30 years of age, and it does not misfire. If I were to do it over I would get the .22 though, the .32 is too loud for the ears of dog and man.

Wagonmaster wrote:If you want a quality pistol, the best one is the one made on the old H&R pattern, which is now called the NEF. I have a .32 that is showing no signs of slowing down at around 30 years of age, and it does not misfire. If I were to do it over I would get the .22 though, the .32 is too loud for the ears of dog and man.

Using NEF as the search key I wound up at the H&R website and they don't do pistols at all. Do you have a particular manufacturer that I can look at?

Thanks,

H&R/NEF quit making their .22 blank pistol - they only sell the .32 now. Why they quit making the 22, I have no idea.

So if you can't find an NEF, I would look next at Alpha pistols. Very solid guns, the only thing I don't like about them is that they're a bit bigger/bulkier than most of the other blank pistols out there.

You should also consider shotgun primer pistols. You can find decent models at Dogs Unlimited, Lion Country, Gun Dog Supply, etc. They're just as loud as 22 pistols and I think the blanks are a little cheaper. As the name suggests, they use shotgun shell primers, which can be found at any gun shop that sells reloading supplies. I think Alpha makes a version, but there are also brands that cost closer to $70 if you don't feel like spending $180 on a pistol.

If you do go the 22 route, use brown or yellow nailgun loads from Home Depot. Easier to find, cheaper, and just as loud.

Try Nef Blank Guns should bring up different suppliers.

If I am not mistaken you should be able to buy the inserts that compliment the NEF .32 and use .22 blanks in it. I know you can find the inserts for the .209 primers. If you are ever interested in running AFTCA events you will NEED the .32 if you run in a championship.

topher40 wrote:If I am not mistaken you should be able to buy the inserts that compliment the NEF .32 and use .22 blanks in it. I know you can find the inserts for the .209 primers. If you are ever interested in running AFTCA events you will NEED the .32 if you run in a championship.

If you find those inserts, please post a link. I would have figured that wasn't an option since 22 is rimfire and 32 is centerfire.

topher40 wrote:If I am not mistaken you should be able to buy the inserts that compliment the NEF .32 and use .22 blanks in it. I know you can find the inserts for the .209 primers. If you are ever interested in running AFTCA events you will NEED the .32 if you run in a championship.

AFTCA has now approved the primer pistol for ch.

About one year ago I saw new NEF pistols in a catalog. About 130 dollar range. Keep looking they are out there. I would buy a used NEF before some of the new pistols.
If you go to a 209 primer look for a used Days End. They are no longer made , but same quality as NEF.

SubMariner -

The best 22 caliber blank gun...by far... is the NEF, or an original H&R.

Both are no longer made.

However, if the blank gun is in working condition, it will probably outlast you, so buying one used is not a bad deal.

I suggest you place a "Want to Buy" ad on a few different hunting or trialing sites and keep scanning the items for sale on things like eBay, searching for blank pistols starter pistol, NEF blank, etc

I was made aware of a former trialer who was selling out some stuff and I was able to acquire a NEF 22 in nice shape for under $100.

Good luck.

A NEF 32 caliber with 209 inserts is also a good way to go, if the inserts are correctly made. A box of one thousand 209 primers is in the neighborhood of $20 -30. One hundred 22 crimps will cost you $8-12. So if you do a lot of training, the price of the primers will quickly pay for the gun.

I bought three Traditions 209 primer pistols (Kimar) over the years. Each lasted for about 800 shots before it broke. At $70 per pistol, it was not a bad deal. Depending on how much you train, that same gun minght be a god choice for you.

RayG

For me, that was about a year and a half

RayG

I have not tried any of the inserts, but have been told that the 209 inserts specifically are not very good. The primer tends to expand and stick in the insert. I use my .32 alot for training, but I just put Magnum Small Pistol primers in the shells and no powder. Works fine for training and not so hard on the ears.

I have a .22 blank pistol I bought at Cabela's but don't know the brand. It works ok, but I am guessing that if I use it very much it will fall apart like most of the cheap ones eventually seem to do.

I have the Lion Country 209 pistol http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Blank-P ... istol.html .

It's OK. I plan to wear it out, then get another.

Three things:

1. The 209 is pretty loud for a puppy. I had a .22 and used crimps when I had the last pup. Next one, I'll just buy a cheapo kids cap gun at Wally World for the initial gunfire introduction. Not too loud and can't beat the price.

2. Keep a thin-bladed pocket knife to get out individual primers that are sticky.

3. It really needs a lanyard. Suggest removing the grips and drilling a hole in the middle of the frame of the butt. The lanyard can be inserted through and tied off such that it won't pull out. If you have the tools, you can drill and tap the butt and install a lanyard swivel.

Greg J.

Greg Jennings wrote: 2. Keep a thin-bladed pocket knife to get out individual primers that are sticky.

Greg,

Assuming you've ensured that the cylinder chambers don't have any burrs in them, what primers are you using? The retriever guys (who can shoot hundreds of primers in day) have figured out that the Remington, Federal and CCI primers result in the best gun life and lowest problem rate due to the fact that those primers produce less pressure than other brands. Remington is the lowest of the three. I can tell you from experience that CCI 209A primers will eat up a gun pretty quick

3. It really needs a lanyard. Suggest removing the grips and drilling a hole in the middle of the frame of the butt. The lanyard can be inserted through and tied off such that it won't pull out. If you have the tools, you can drill and tap the butt and install a lanyard swivel.

A simple wood screw eyelet screwed into the wood grip works as well. I use a simple whistle lanyard; loop it over the holster and snap the snap swivel to the eyelet on the gun.

I have the Lion Country 209 pistol.

It's OK. I plan to wear it out, then get another.

I'm with you; I'd rather have a gun I have to replace every few years than one I have to unassembled and reassemble every time I want to reload it.

FWIW,
Dave

I bought a Alfa in 209 and while I spent more for it, I don't intend to ever replace it. It is built as well as any regular firearm and see no reason it will not last.

here it is in 22

http://www.gundogsupply.com/alfa22-blued.html

Dave,

I'm using Winchester 209s. Seems like I have a million of them left over from the heavy-duty reloading days.

Greg J.

Have y'all seen these? Look nice don't know anything about them

http://www.gunxusa.com/

I was wondering if any one has any experience with any one of these three,

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Blank-P ... istol.html)

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Blank-P ... istol.html)

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/New-Pro ... istol.html)

Pineywoods wrote:I was wondering if any one has any experience with any one of these three,

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Blank-P ... istol.html)

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/Blank-P ... istol.html)

(http://www.lcsupply.com/Product/New-Pro ... istol.html)

I've used the first one. Decent gun, lasted me about 4 years. One pet peeve I had with it is that the cylinder doesn't lock in place - you can shoot, put it back in your holster, and the cylinder can spin around back to the spent shell. It can be annoying, especially when you've fired several shots and there are a lot of empty shells, so you end up firing several times before you hit a live one.

I bought a Kimar Competitive model in .209 from Gundog Supply for around $61 including shipping and it seems to work well so far. Super tight action and hasn't failed to fire. Has good heft to it. Plastic grips but they seem to be heavy duty. Everything but the grips is heavy duty metal though. Also it is single/double action with an extractor that extracts all spent primers at once with a flip out cylinder.

I bought one of the Champion blank guns from LCS, and had the same problems as phermes1. So I bought a Alfa. It is top quality, and does not have cylinders or pins to lose like the NEF which is why I went with an Alfa.

tommyboy72 wrote:I bought a Kimar Competitive model in .209 from Gundog Supply for around $61 including shipping and it seems to work well so far. Super tight action and hasn't failed to fire. Has good heft to it. Plastic grips but they seem to be heavy duty. Everything but the grips is heavy duty metal though. Also it is single/double action with an extractor that extracts all spent primers at once with a flip out cylinder.

The only real negative to a Kimar, IMO, is that it only holds 5 shots. My NEF holds 8. It's not really a big deal in a trial, but in training and stuff, it's nice having plenty of blanks in the gun.
It's just a consideration. Other than that, Kimar does seem to be a very solid gun. A friend of mine has one and is very happy with it. His wife has a hard time with the heavy trigger pull, but otherwise it's a good gun.

I go through blank pistols at a rate of about two per year (they either break or get lost) I bought a couple of the premier pistols from LC Supply - so far they are fine.

I usually pop the spent primers out and put a fresh one in right after I finish firing and doing the dog work. I have been known to forget how many I had fired and not have an unfired primer in when I need one.

I have the orange handle Alpha, and it payed off last week. I was away training in about a 40 acre field where I lost it:( After Rick and I looked for 30 minutes we located the orange!!! Love It!!!

I'm posting to this thread to revive it and see if there is anything new on this front as my husband is once again grumbling about wanting a new blank pistol. :roll:

The GunX. I know, it is 209. You will NOT find a better gun. 235.00 shipped to your door. Better than the Alpha. Lighter, smaller, guaranteed for life and shorter trigger pull. But hey, it's your money.......

Buckeye_V wrote:The GunX. I know, it is 209. You will NOT find a better gun. 235.00 shipped to your door. Better than the Alpha. Lighter, smaller, guaranteed for life and shorter trigger pull. But hey, it's your money.......

If and when my NEF ever bites the dust the GunX will be my next purchase.

http://www.gunxusa.com/GunX/Home.html

Coveyrise64

Coveyrise64 wrote: If and when my NEF ever bites the dust the GunX will be my next purchase.

http://www.gunxusa.com/GunX/Home.html

Coveyrise64

I'm with you, although if you have an NEF, the only reason you'll probably need to replace it is if you lose it.
Those things are built like tanks. It still bums me out that they stopped making them in .22.

Last time I was in Kevin's Sporting Goods in Tallahassee Fl he had 6 brand new in the box NEF pistols three 22 cal and
three 32 cal, however he is very proud of them.

If GunX would make one in .22, maybe they do, I'd be all over it. But if the two choices are 209 or .32, I'll pass.

It's just not a good choice for all the various requirements...from starting puppies to competition.

phermes1 wrote:

Coveyrise64 wrote: If and when my NEF ever bites the dust the GunX will be my next purchase.

http://www.gunxusa.com/GunX/Home.html

Coveyrise64

I'm with you, although if you have an NEF, the only reason you'll probably need to replace it is if you lose it.
Those things are built like tanks. It still bums me out that they stopped making them in .22.

In my case I'll probably leave it somewhere...... I've been thinking of buying a Gunx just in case they stop making them.

Pineywoods wrote:Last time I was in Kevin's Sporting Goods in Tallahassee Fl he had 6 brand new in the box NEF pistols three 22 cal and
three 32 cal, however he is very proud of them.

That's the reason I would go with a GunX. The NEF's you do find are out of sight price wise. With the GunX you get a gun with newer features for not much more money.

Coveyrise64

I have used mine to start dogs and in a wealth of competitions. No issues. I just use my body to block the main blast (if needed).

Wonder why the GunX won't work with Winchester 209 primers?

nj gsp wrote:Wonder why the GunX won't work with Winchester 209 primers?

I've heard of two issues, 1) The firing pin pierces the primer cap and hangs not letting the cylinder rotate. 2)The primer swells inside the cylinder when fired and won't eject.

Coveyrise64

I can say that after a year of frequent use, the Alfa .22 is great. For $189 it can't be beat, and unlike the GunX dry firing won't hurt it.

dbhowell23 wrote:Have y'all seen these? Look nice don't know anything about them

http://www.gunxusa.com/

Rick just got this gun, is a VERY nice gun..Wish I had known, you coulda seen it this weekend...It is Primer only tho..Light weight, lifetime warranty. Congrats on your win!!!!!!!!

I have made the cylinders for the NEF & HR and Days End Six shooter that shoots a 209 primer.
It is 6 shots and is made out of ABS plastic, and will come in orange and red. I have been working on this for some time now and we have finally done it. They will be priced at 50.00 each call for ordering 7577243139. Gary Ansell