Tell me about ES lines

[Karen]

We're considering making the plunge and getting an ES puppy to run as a horseback shooting dog in the Northeast. I've been in Brittanys for 10 yrs but don't know a thing about ES lines.

So if you were looking, what lines would you be looking for and why? Anyone know of any promising litters planned for this spring?

[GUNSMOKE]

Karen Karen Karen Karen on this particular board???????? Where 90% of everyone seems to have something without a tail?

[Karen]

Hehe It's probably only 70% without tails here (if you count the GWP & GSP owners).

Did you change your mind? You going to Medford this weekend? I'm running 2 on Saturday.

[FLocker]

Others will have real answers, but i'd be curious to know what you are looking for that Brits can't do.

[mcbosco]

where in the northeast do you hunt on horseback?

[ezzy333]

where in the northeast do you hunt on horseback?

She is asking about a dog to trial in the horseback shooting dog class. Nothing was said about hunting from horseback.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Oh excuse me Ezzy, "dog games" are not my speciality..

[GUNSMOKE]

For those of you going to Medford have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving and the best of luck!!!!!!!!!

[RayGubernat]

Oh excuse me Ezzy, "dog games" are not my speciality..

There are all manner of ways for folks to enjoy their dogs. Anyone who thinks "their way" is superior, or in any way "more real", than any other way is an arrogant jerk.

Unless you hunt for subsistence with your dog, it is a sport...and all sports are "games", hence the term" SPORT HUNTING".

RayG

[Karen]

Others will have real answers, but i'd be curious to know what you are looking for that Brits can't do.

The Brittanys are mine. My SO is quite taken with ES's.

[mcbosco]

http://www.marsalssetters.com/index.html

this is the only ES breeder I have been to in NJ.

[BoJack]

There are some good field trial Setter breeders out there.Alot more then there use to be.Where are you located in the Northeast? I have a friend in Md.that has been pretty sucessful in Horseback trials with his Setters and breeds a litter now and then.Some breeders on the link below,but most are out West.
http://www.settersunlimited.com/index.aspx

[springpoint]

karen you could go over to the cover dog message board there is alot of trialer over there, but i would check out havelock setters, i know stone tavern matrix is a horse back dog. I'm not a expert or anything but these are a couple i know of.

[ElhewPointer]

Im an EP guy, but i've seen a few setters run. The Insider(2009 dog of the year) is a very nice dog. I also judged Erin's Skydancer as a derby and she was a very nice dog.

[BoJack]

http://members4.boardhost.com/coverdogforsale/
There's one on there now for sale,with wins.Guy's getting out of dogs.Cheap he says

[big steve46]

Others will have real answers, but i'd be curious to know what you are looking for that Brits can't do.

A Setter is more likely to:

1. Have a stylish tail
2. Be able to jump over a low fence.
3. Be able to carry a pheasant without tipping forward on their nose.
4. Be differentiated in appearance from another Setter.

[Sharon]

Others will have real answers, but I'd be curious to know what you are looking for that Brits can't do.

I enjoy watching a Brittany hunt but when it comes to AFTCA/American Field, Shooting Dog Horseback trials, I've never seen a competitive one in Region 13 - actually I saw one several years ago - Uplanders Techni Callie. She actually won a Championship over setters/ pointers.
It is also an extra hardship to try and place by walking in a horseback stake unless you're a marathoner. The rules allow it but your horseback bracemate is not going to be happy. Better to participate in the Walking Open /Amateur Shooting Dog Stakes unless you have a horse.

Shady Hills Kennel ( Forman brothers), in Upper New York State has put up some fine shooting dogs and cover dogs. The Cover Dog Forum would also give you some good suggestions.

Shady Hills Billy

[slistoe]

I enjoy watching a Brittany hunt but when it comes to AFTCA/American Field, Shooting Dog Horseback trials, I've never seen a competitive one in Region 13 - actually I saw one several years ago - Uplanders Techni Callie. She actually won a Championship over setters/ pointers.

I wish you could have seen Vindalbakken's Lady Breeze run in the Puppy and Derby stakes out there in '99, '00. According to her handler at the time she was the one to beat.

[alex0742]

Get something out of "Missippi Zev"

[ncpointers]

Try Walker Farms on settersunlimited.com They are the most knowledgable about setter breeding that I know and will talk straight with you.

[Sharon]

You beat me to it. http://www.settersunlimited.com/

[Karen]

Thanks all. I own a horse (we actually have 2), and I've been running AKC trials for a few years now, and getting to a couple AF trials over the last couple seasons with my Brittanys. Blaze was the #6 Brittany Gun Dog in the AKC last year (totally amateur handled), and I've put both AA and GD placements on him myself, so I'm not a complete newbie to all this.

We (John and I) really enjoy the faster pace of the AF trials, but I'm not in the habit of purposely banging my head against a wall. If I want to seriously compete in AF trials, I want a longtail.

Keep the breeding suggestions coming! And I'm not adverse to traveling for a pup. My last Britt pup came from St. Louis, MO (I'm in NJ). I do not want a started dog though, I want a puppy...a clean slate.

[Sharon]

Just my opinion . I've been involved in AF trials for almost 20 years and have setters . Based on what I've seen though , if you really want to increase your odds of placing in the AF, get an EP. See Mike/George Tracy/Frank Henderson at Calico Kennels If I was younger, starting over and had the money and based on what I've seen , that is what I'd do.

[mudhunter]

Ive seen a real nice pup out of Jetsetter and a Gridiron Bitch. You will have a hard time finding a better breeding than that!!

[BoJack]

If I'm not mistaken Frank Henderson owns Calico Kennels and the Tracys own Tracehaven Kennels.Not sure if Mike Tracy still has the Setter Stone Tavern Matrix or not(a Good one)Top winner and producer.I heard that Matrix was sold not long ago.Matrix has to be getting up there in age though.

[springpoint]

grousefeather kennels is good from what i've heard.

[springpoint]

another one i just thought of was hytest kennels, as i have heard very good things out of hytests skyhawk.

[Sharon]

If I'm not mistaken Frank Henderson owns Calico Kennels and the Tracys own Tracehaven Kennels.Not sure if Mike Tracy still has the Setter Stone Tavern Matrix or not(a Good one)Top winner and producer.I heard that Matrix was sold not long ago.Matrix has to be getting up there in age though.

Thanks. I fixed my post.
Joe Trovota owns Nat. CH. Stone Tavern Matrix I believe. Mike still handles him.

[mudhunter]

If I'm not mistaken Frank Henderson owns Calico Kennels and the Tracys own Tracehaven Kennels.Not sure if Mike Tracy still has the Setter Stone Tavern Matrix or not(a Good one)Top winner and producer.I heard that Matrix was sold not long ago.Matrix has to be getting up there in age though.

Thanks. I fixed my post.
Joe Trovota owns Nat. CH. Stone Tavern Matrix I believe. Mike still handles him.

Matrix is still with Mike at summerhill Kennels but He was sold to Dom Coniceli, he had an ad recently in the Field advertising STM

[hustonmc]

Berg Brothers in Minnesota. I judged a dog from them this fall, nicest dog I've seen in a long time, I believe it was a Barbaro pup. An absolute pleasure to watch. They had bought another dog from that kennel as well and sold it to a friend. Also a really nice dog, just didn't have a pattern, not the dog faults, the owners never put him on wild birds, the dog didn't know where to hunt. The last pointing breed I would ever own is a Setter, but I would have loved to have this one. Fully broke at 15 months, and as classy as you can ever imagine.

[Wildweeds]

Here's a few pics of my 7 month old Patriot pup on the prarie in S.D. last week,dangdest thing this pup pointy to a flaw almost of the 10 birds I shot for him he remained rock solid thru and after the fall of the bird,he WILL not chase one even though I have encouraged him to do so,I had quite a few stop to flushes with him also.His range at 7 months is really short,20-30 yards,the biggest swing he made according to the garmin in a week of hunting was 71 yards.Real easy to hunt with and he likes birds he's just not into chasing them,In the first pic a headshot bird is doing the death flop on the ground about 20 yards in front of him,no moving no nothing from the time he pointed,in the second pic there was 3 birds out in front of him about 10 yards.He's a real clumsy pup at 7 months he's 42 pounds and stands 24 inches tall at his withers,he rarely hits full speed running,as soon as he does he stumbles over his legs and hits the dirt.The garmin had his loping pace at a shade over 6 mph.

[Sharon]

If I'm not mistaken Frank Henderson owns Calico Kennels and the Tracys own Tracehaven Kennels.Not sure if Mike Tracy still has the Setter Stone Tavern Matrix or not(a Good one)Top winner and producer.I heard that Matrix was sold not long ago.Matrix has to be getting up there in age though.

Thanks. I fixed my post.
Joe Trovota owns Nat. CH. Stone Tavern Matrix I believe. Mike still handles him.

Matrix is still with Mike at summerhill Kennels but He was sold to Dom Coniceli, he had an ad recently in the Field advertising STM

Mercy, that dog gets around. I know he was with Joe last year. Thanks for the update.

[dudleysmith]

Ravenwood Riley or his son Harbor City Hummer, Stone Tavern Matrix. Jetsetter,

[RayGubernat]

Karen -

I don't know too much about setter lines, but I do know someone who does.

Have Pete call Jim Emerson at Clearspring kennels. Jim might have what you want or know where to get it. He will not steer you wrong. You could also see what Norm Basilone has in the works out of Riley's blood(Ravenwood Riley is deceased).

RayG

[Karen]

Thanks Ray.

I should see Norm this weekend so maybe I'll get there early and see what he's running in the open.

[ymepointer]

If I were you I would subscribe to the field for a year and also go to as many AF trials as possible and take a look at what setters are running....if you want an AA dog, I would suspect that your kennel/line choices are going to be different than if you are thinking shooting dog. I would not rule out the major circuit grouse dogs lines either but I would go see the dogs and then approach the handler of the Dog you like the best and see if you can get a pup out of that dog or it's line.

[BoJack]

Second the call to Jimmy Emerson at Clearspring Kennels.I've known him since the 70's and he's a stand up honest Bird Dog Man and a Pro.He's had good success running Pointers and Setters.He had a good one in his string when he was campaigning not long ago.Bluebell Promise(Gridiron son).

[mudhunter]

Check out the cover dog site, their is a thread you will find interesting about the English setters currently being trialed titled "Bringing back the Setter article from 1962."