Gun Dog Forum

had a bit of a scare today in my house. Let both dogs outside this morning to do their business. The older GSP (4 yrs) came in first and went into the den. The GWP pup (6 month) came in next about 5 minutes later. Next thing i know all heck broke out inside the den. I ran over and the dogs were locked up, each had a piece of the others face. Scary. I ended up yelling loudly, kicked them a couple times, and finally had to put my own hands in there and peel them apart. The GSP has a couple holes in her upper lip and bottom lip, i am going to seal up with EMT GEL. not much blood, but i think some of the cuts are clear through the lip. The pup seems fine.

I think I know why the fight began. The GSP grabbed the only bone in the house, and the puppy came in and tried to take it. that is my guess.

Any suggestion on how to handle a fighting dog situation. How do you get them apart? I probably could of very easily been bitten.

What about the lip? Any reason to bring to the vet. The GSP ate and drank water just fine after this. Seems a little swollen but that is all.

Boy, don't you hate that!
Been there. Done that.
I think you probably handled it the right way. I am not sure there is a best way to break up a fight in the house. Outside I would tell you to use the garden hose.
The only thing I can say is be VERY carefull when reaching in. I know more people that have had very serious injuries occur trying to stop a fight. The only other advice would be to try and prevent it from reoccuring. Get rid of the bones etc... One thing to think about is what caused the fight. In the past I have had the pup just being too playful with the rough housing and the older dog saying ENOUGH and starting a fight.
Another comment worth mentioning even though it probably doesn't apply in your situation is using an e-collar to stop a fight. This is NEVER a good idea. Zapping a dog that is in a fight will only make things worse. They may interpret the jolt to an action by the other dog.
Watch them close from now on. Sorry to hear about it.

I've only had to break up one fight, which doesn't sound nearly as bad as yours was. I basically grabbed a towel and started beating both of them with it while yelling and screaming at them to cut that sh*t out. They stopped fighting immediately and looked at me like, "Wow, he's really P*SSED!!!!". It was really effective, didn't hurt either dog, and kept my hands out of harm's way.

Yea Ive gone the "instill the fear of God route" too.....works. They stop thinking about fighting each other when they are
both scared their gonna die

When in doubt open up a can of Whoop Arse"

The worst fight I ever had :

I'm sleeping in bed, when I hear all heck breaking loose.

My husband saw some neighbors out on the sidewalk with a new dog - Jack Russell. Their first dog, a vicious thing that they got at the pound.
He invites them in. :roll:
I have a Jack Russell. He's hears someone down stairs and the fight begins. He's not going to tolerate another make Jack in his house.
I come ripping down the stairs in my nightie, find the big leather electrical gloves which go to my wrist and separate them.

The new dog owners are hiding in the corner.

My dog came away with some hunks out of the bridge of his nose, which are scarred over.

I haven't seen the "new Jack" since. I've allowed my husband to stay.

hopefully this is the only one. my wife is pretty upset, but that is to be expected. It was not they way she wanted to wake up today. Normally the rawhides are put away when we are not watching, but the GSP grabbed it on top of the cabinet and went on her way.

The new GWP is definately trying to figure out if where he is in the pecking order. I would say that he is more dominant over the GSP, but sometimes the GSP will let him know with a snap or something like that. Today was an all out WWF match.

I took a better look at them over my lunch break. Nothing i consider major. The GSP has a swollen lip with about a 1/2 cut through the bottom lip. i don't think it is all the way through to the inside. But no blood anywere so i will wait it out, hopefully no infections come about. Should i wash it out daily?

Two of my males who are littermates went through a dominance contest when they were 2 years old. It culminated in an all-out fight with each gripping a mouthful of the other. I applied severe ear pinches to each one, then lifted and separated them and shouting NO! There was no repeat performance.

WingmanCA wrote: I applied severe ear pinches to each one, then lifted and separated them and shouting NO! There was no repeat performance.

Oh how peculiar it is that those ears shut off when were not in reach but oh grab a handful of ear and they become very sensitive and responsive. I find that gets there attention real quick.

Chip

i like the ear grab idea. it never crossed my mind as i was standing there in my underwear wondering what the heck to do.

dugger13 wrote:i like the ear grab idea. it never crossed my mind as i was standing there in my underwear wondering what the heck to do.

WHOA DUDE!!!! Did'nt need that visual.....TMI..

Yep the ears work and I always like to slip my thumb on the inside I get a little more pressure that way.


Chip

my boston tore into my GSP one day... over a bone of course... i grabbed the boston by the back legs and spun him in about 6 very tight circles... then set him down... it hasn't happened again... the wife saw me do this and was like "what the heck was that?" i think i read it in the delmar smith book...

if they got ahold of each other or are stationary a ear grab might work.....

if they are going round and round jaws a snappin then I opt for the mosh pit method and strike fear of God.

I've also grabbed hind quarters and implemented the spin method if there is only one offender.....best to put the
whoopin on the one who started the mess as the other is just protecting themselves.


They wont be fightin each other when they begin to worry about their own hides and the 6 ft monster that's
bringing the hammer down !!!

i was standing there in my underwear wondering what the heck to do.

Lucky you didn't up with three hurt dogs!

Seriously...I had this happen a few weeks ago with two females and they were insdie a dog house and i couldn't reach them. I was afraid to blindly stick my hand in so i poked the end of a 2x4 between them and "gently" seperated them.

You HAVE to establish which one is the insigator. Watch them closely, they will tell you whch one gives the first "look"...ThenTHAT is the one you go for. And give him something to remember. I like to hang them in the air and gag awhile. He will have a whole new respect for life when he is put back on the ground

Another way to at least get them apart is grabbing them by their back legs and pulling them away from each other. You need two people, because pulling just one puts him at a disadvantage and vulnerable to the other.

snips wrote:You HAVE to establish which one is the insigator. Watch them closely, they will tell you whch one gives the first "look"...ThenTHAT is the one you go for. And give him something to remember. I like to hang them in the air and gag awhile. He will have a whole new respect for life when he is put back on the ground

You are one tough b..... - cookie. Good for you.

Aside from the fight itself, which can be corrected to the point of being manageable (but will likely never be completely gone), you probably need to really watch those bites. Dog on dog bites can get infected pretty easily. If the swelling doesn't go down in a day or so I'd take the dog into the vet to get some cephalexin (antibiotic pill).

One time i will break it up the next time the one that caused it will go see his maker.....end of story...

Hmmm You must go through a lot of dogs.

If you know the right lines you almost never have a fight

My vet has had some experience with police dogs. He said they maintain control by grabbing their testicles (NOT something I'd ever try). Oddly enough they had a fine canine officer who had to have his removed. They wanted the officers to think they could maintain control so they secretly inserted a pair of 'neutricles' (I can't make stuff this up).

There is a lot of info on this subject at this web site:

http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

Solon

Ayres wrote:Aside from the fight itself, which can be corrected to the point of being manageable (but will likely never be completely gone), you probably need to really watch those bites. Dog on dog bites can get infected pretty easily. If the swelling doesn't go down in a day or so I'd take the dog into the vet to get some cephalexin (antibiotic pill).

My vet keeps me supplied with two weeks dose of amoxicillin. I always have nicks, rips and punctures happen in the field with the occasional fight. Never try to close a puncture wound and only use staples or stitches if it is a severe laceration. You may want to shave the area around the wound to see what you have, then flush it with antiseptic (hydro peroxide) and apply Neosporin. Make sure you use all the antibiotic (min. 5 days) to prevent your dog from getting immune to it. That was a mistake that I finally got corrected on. Try not not to over use antibiotics.

snips wrote:You HAVE to establish which one is the insigator. Watch them closely, they will tell you whch one gives the first "look"...ThenTHAT is the one you go for. And give him something to remember. I like to hang them in the air and gag awhile. He will have a whole new respect for life when he is put back on the ground

agreed, usually there has been some signs that it's gunna go pear shaped, avoidance is the key rather than damage control.

do not put your hand into the fight, which is much the same as grabbing an ear...don't do it. that means you are bending over the fighting end, you are also wasteing time and risking greater injury to the participants by looking for articles, broom/hose etc. to use

THE most effective safe way is to grab the loose fold of skin between the front of the thigh and the belly/ribs of the nearest dog and drag em out of it, then it's boots and all, separate and isolate them.

then as snips said, the full grease and oil change on the instigator......make sure the other dog isn't able to take advantage.

..................tasi

tasi devil wrote:

snips wrote:You HAVE to establish which one is the insigator. Watch them closely, they will tell you whch one gives the first "look"...ThenTHAT is the one you go for. And give him something to remember. I like to hang them in the air and gag awhile. He will have a whole new respect for life when he is put back on the ground

agreed, usually there has been some signs that it's gunna go pear shaped, avoidance is the key rather than damage control.

do not put your hand into the fight, which is much the same as grabbing an ear...don't do it. that means you are bending over the fighting end, you are also wasteing time and risking greater injury to the participants by looking for articles, broom/hose etc. to use

THE most effective safe way is to grab the loose fold of skin between the front of the thigh and the belly/ribs of the nearest dog and drag em out of it, then it's boots and all, separate and isolate them.

then as snips said, the full grease and oil change on the instigator......make sure the other dog isn't able to take advantage.

..................tasi

agreed--I won't put my hands in where two are fighting- my last male wasn't a fighter- he wouldn't start anything but when another dog would give him that look- dominance thing he'd stand and look back- could see the warning signs- couple times over his 15 years he layed into a dog that started it-

one time at my cousins where their shetland?(herding dog) was constantly bumping his shoulder sort of a pushing thing- he growled turned his head away- other dog wouldn't stop- there was quite a fight- he had her by the face shaking her- I grabbed his back end to drag him away- he let go of her and sunk his teeth into my forearm- I made the mistake- he was in a pretty good fight and took my arm as something fighting back- neither dog got hurt- a bit of blood- from then on for two days that female left him alone- she'd come up to him- he'd give her that look- it was enough- the way I saw it was she didn't really mean to show dominance to him- more like play- but he didn't see it that way

hard for us to rationalize what a dog feels- best to not let aggressive dogs get together

if i ever get bit by one of my dogs... he's eating lead... i don't put up with it even if its a accidental bite... i won't tolerate that from a dog... I'd hate it if i let one slide and he bit my wife...
as far as cleaning with hydrogen peroxide... i wouldn't use that stuff... shave the laceration, scrub with betadine, and flush with nolvasan.... then suture it...

I dont think certain "lines" are prone to fighting... If you have two dominant males around each other alot, its bound to happen one day.

If you have dogs long enough sooner or later you will have a dog fight, and I agree 100% with Brenda, the quickest way to teach avoidance to fighting is cutting off the air supply long enough the dog know how deep of a hole they have dug themselves. Some take longer than others but sooner or later they all figure it out.

ACooper wrote:If you have dogs long enough sooner or later you will have a dog fight

You betcha it is going to happen. I don't care what kind of lines you have, if the conditions are right...it is going to happen.

Please be careful sticking your hands in there. You have no idea what you are getting into when you grab a 50 lb plus dog and they don't know it is you grabbing them...pure fury. I learned the hard way once and once is all it will be and if/when it ever happens again, the first thing going in is my foot to the offender.

Elkhunter wrote:I dont think certain "lines" are prone to fighting... If you have two dominant males around each other alot, its bound to happen one day.

So you do not think certain lines will not fight??

dudleysmith wrote:

Elkhunter wrote:I dont think certain "lines" are prone to fighting... If you have two dominant males around each other alot, its bound to happen one day.

So you do not think certain lines will not fight??

All lines of dogs will fight if you put them in the (right / wrong) situation. Two dominate males regardless if they are chuawawas (sp?) or mastiffs will PROBABLY fight if the situation arises.

All this talk about agrressive males & I find just the opposite to be true with my dogs the females are much more B----- then the males.I could have put my old Stud dog Ace in with male or female & never worry about a fight.I kenneled him & a son of his about 10 ft from females in season & never a growl from either.Must be the BLOODLINES?? Seriously though my males get along better with other dogs then the females.I have certain females that you just can not put enclosed together.

vzkennels wrote:All this talk about agrressive males & I find just the opposite to be true with my dogs the females are much more B----- then the males.I could have put my old Stud dog Ace in with male or female & never worry about a fight.I kenneled him & a son of his about 10 ft from females in season & never a growl from either.Must be the BLOODLINES?? Seriously though my males get along better with other dogs then the females.I have certain females that you just can not put enclosed together.

I've heard that females fighting are the worst.

How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

dudleysmith wrote:How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

Its a misconception that all male dogs fight each other. When multiple dogs occupy the same yard, they establish a pecking order (pack ) and once the hierarchy is set, there are generally very few problems. The only time you need to watch out is when a female is coming / in heat. Your best bet is to relocate her out of sight and smell of the males. They will fight.

When females come in season the pecking order still holds with the males. It is the females that have the problem. The term "bitchy" doesn't get common use from the behavior of male dogs. It is far easier to keep multiple intact males than multiple intact females in my experience.

My husband had to break up a couple fights recently. We just got my new bird dog. He's intact, and so is my border collie. They got into it a couple times, but my husband just yelled at them to knock it off and they quit after a second. My collie is definitely the dominant dog, but he got the brunt of the injury because he listens so well. He was the first to quit fighting and the new dog got a hold of his lip. It wasn't punctured all the way through, but his face swelled up huge. It drained before i had a chance to get antibiotics for him though. He seems just fine, eating and drinking as usual, so i'm not going to worry too much about it. Just keep it clean and keep an eye on it!

If he got them to just stop by yelling, it don't sound like they were really serious about the fight.Sounds like one dog letting the other one know his place & who was here first & if they are now getting along now then it worked.

UMMMMMMM,Never met a Field Trialer that kept multiple dogs in the same area together,they've all been penned seperately.EVERYONE I ever met with multiple dogs that are NOT separated has dog fights and lot's of them(meaning more than a pair of dogs) Hard chargers no matter the breed are going to act like the cock of the walk and when you start compounding that with more and more dominant personalities look out,TROUBLE is just arouond the corner.IMO females are far worse about fighting than males.They give very little warning that trouble is brewing.Males will posture some and give a visual indicator prior to the fireworks,If your lucky females will growl a little before the fur flies.

Thinking on it I know ONE FT guy that has 7 setter females all together in the yard,he has fights ALL the time.This spring he had a 4000 vet bill on a pup that the older bitches whipped up on and almost killed,they broke the pups jaw.He's kind of an idiot for a college educated electrical engineer.Won't seperate his dogs to individual pens.

dudleysmith wrote:How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

Wildweeds wrote:UMMMMMMM,Never met a Field Trialer that kept multiple dogs in the same area together,they've all been penned seperately. Hard chargers no matter the breed are going to act like the cock of the walk and when you start compounding that with more and more dominant personalities look out,TROUBLE is just arouond the corner.

dudleysmith wrote:How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

Do these hard charging dogs fight when they are released at the breakaway? If not, why?

Wildweeds wrote:UMMMMMMM,Never met a Field Trialer that kept multiple dogs in the same area together,they've all been penned seperately.EVERYONE I ever met with multiple dogs that are NOT separated has dog fights and lot's of them(meaning more than a pair of dogs) Hard chargers no matter the breed are going to act like the cock of the walk and when you start compounding that with more and more dominant personalities look out,TROUBLE is just arouond the corner.IMO females are far worse about fighting than males.They give very little warning that trouble is brewing.Males will posture some and give a visual indicator prior to the fireworks,If your lucky females will growl a little before the fur flies.

Thinking on it I know ONE FT guy that has 7 setter females all together in the yard,he has fights ALL the time.This spring he had a 4000 vet bill on a pup that the older bitches whipped up on and almost killed,they broke the pups jaw.He's kind of an idiot for a college educated electrical engineer.Won't seperate his dogs to individual pens.

dudleysmith wrote:How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

i guess i was dreaming then...

AZ Brittany Guy wrote: Do these hard charging dogs fight when they are released at the breakaway? If not, why?

Because there is huntung to be done.

dudleysmith wrote:

Wildweeds wrote:UMMMMMMM,Never met a Field Trialer that kept multiple dogs in the same area together,they've all been penned seperately.EVERYONE I ever met with multiple dogs that are NOT separated has dog fights and lot's of them(meaning more than a pair of dogs) Hard chargers no matter the breed are going to act like the cock of the walk and when you start compounding that with more and more dominant personalities look out,TROUBLE is just arouond the corner.IMO females are far worse about fighting than males.They give very little warning that trouble is brewing.Males will posture some and give a visual indicator prior to the fireworks,If your lucky females will growl a little before the fur flies.

Thinking on it I know ONE FT guy that has 7 setter females all together in the yard,he has fights ALL the time.This spring he had a 4000 vet bill on a pup that the older bitches whipped up on and almost killed,they broke the pups jaw.He's kind of an idiot for a college educated electrical engineer.Won't seperate his dogs to individual pens.

dudleysmith wrote:How do you guys thing that field trailers that have a 1 acre pen with 20 dogs in it that are all males keep them fron fighting???

i guess i was dreaming then...

Actually, I know a couple who have had as many as 7 males at one time. They have a small yard in town and all dogs live in their house. They didn't have fights - even when I sent a bitch in heat to stay with them for a week at a time.

It has been awhile since my last post on this topic. My dogs have gotten into it about 5 times or so.

My male GWP is now neutered and will be 1 year old this month. The GSP is 4. I had a couple more fights about food, and then one again last night about nothing in particular. i didn't see what started it, but i think they were cleaning up chips by the couch and then all heck broke loose.

The weird thing is the that the GWP is definately the dominant dog, My GSP is very submissive, to the point where it is annoying. But i have a 9 year old wiener dog that the GWP will not even go close to. He has put the GWP in his place a time our to, and will even eat his food in front of him. That tells me the the wiener dog is the top dog. Also in this time, not once has the GWP challenged a human. i have 3 kids who all have been around the dogs.
The GWP has also been around tons of other dogs and has showed no signs of aggression with any other dog, except for our own GSP.

The two hunting dogs are fine together at all other times except for these remote incidents. The hunt together, sleep in the same room, and are kennel in the same 10 x 30 outdoor kennel. Does anybody have any advice on how to handle this. I would like to setup some training scenarios that would allow me to control the the situation and train my GWP to behave properly. or vice versa. does anyone have any recommended scenarios, or experiences with this type of training. thanks

Guess I will be the dbag everyone hates again but if it is males, usually a good swift kick in the nuts to one or both of them stops the fights.

With my females usually yelling at them is good enough or a good swift kick in the rear end.

I had two females that got into once and I honestly didn't think I was going to get it stopped in time, they were fighting to kill for sure. Never had a problem stopping males.