lesser known breeds

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springpoint
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lesser known breeds

Post by springpoint » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:52 am

I was wondering what you guys think is the best of the lesser known breeds in the field.

pudelpointer
red setter
wiredhaired griffon
small and large munsterlander
gordon setter
french britt

i know i'm missing some but you guys should get the idea

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:07 am

My opinion with out a doubt to get a good all around hunting dog from most of the breeders is first the Pudel pointer & the French Britt, then the WPHG and Small Munsterlander, so on.
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by whoa on 'em » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:31 pm

I must admit that I have no experience with any of the lesser known breeds, with that said I have dedicated hours upon hours doing research. I have talked to many Pudelpointer owners and all of them were very satisfied. I'm thinking about getting one myself. Only problem is that they are rather hard to find, but that could be a good thing too, the bloodline hasn't been watered down. Just my two cents worth.
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Dave Quindt » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:32 pm

springpoint wrote:I was wondering what you guys think is the best of the lesser known breeds in the field.

pudelpointer
red setter
wiredhaired griffon
small and large munsterlander
gordon setter
french britt

i know i'm missing some but you guys should get the idea
The obvious question is "best for what?"

I've had the opportunity to spend some time with a handful of dogs from each of these breeds, and a fair amount of time with a couple of the breeds you listed. I've seen excellent dogs from all of the breeds listed.

If I had to rank them in terms of being a pure upland birddog in the traditional pointer/setter sense, I'd go Red Setter, Gordon Setter and then it would be between the PP and the FB.

In terms of a versatile all-around hunt, point, retrieve kinda dog I'd go PP, WPG, and then either the Gordon or SM depending on exact needs.

All of those breeds to a certain degree suffer from the same problems; limited gene pools, low to moderate demand from experienced birddog folks and very "breed centric" breeders with very little outside influencers. In a lot of those breeds, especially the versatiles, a great % of there breeders have little or no experience owning/training/handling any of the major established breeds. There's a lot of "what we have is wonderful regardless of how they stack up against other breeds". "Quirkiness" is seen as perfectly normal; almost a badge of honor.

Here's a good example:

I saw a LM that would point a single bird like a champ, but if she came across two or more she'd lay down and then try to sneak away. This was a 10 month old pup. Owner didn't know what to make of it but came back to the following month's training day and told me that according to the breeder, the sire did that until he was about 2 or 3, and a couple other pups in the litter were doing the same thing. Breeder told the owner it was no big deal and the dog would outgrow it.

In the LM world (and I have many examples from some of the other breeds you mention) this wasn't a big deal; in the world of birddogs this is a huge deal. But the LM folks had convinced themselves that this was the best they can do.

Small gene pools, low demand from experienced birddog owners, and a high degree of acceptance of "quirkiness" IMO leads to a ton of variety within each litter, and the breed themselves. In the GSP or Brittany world, it's perfectly normal to have a litter where every pup in it grows up to have all of the natural ability to become an AKC Master Hunter, for example. To me that's a reasonable expectation. I know breeders within some of the breeds that you ask about that have admitted to me if they can get 2 or 3 dogs from each litter to show enough natural talent to be developed into a MH dog they would consider that breeding a success.

I'd also be careful about stereotypes; I've seen some SMs and PPs that ran big enough to compete in some trials. Know of one SM female who could keep up with a shooting dog GSP without breaking a sweat; one of the fastest dogs I've ever seen on the ground. If they allowed PPs in AKC trials, there are some that are as good as the best GWPs in the trial game; more natural point and better style.

Regarding breeds being "watered down" I'd be very careful of that line of reasoning. No breed has been more "watered down" than the Labrador Retriever; yet there are more truly great Lab litters whelped ever year than total number of litters whelped by every breed in your list combined.

There are great dogs in each of these breeds, but I find it hard to justify recommending some of them for newbies and casual hunting dog folks; the odds of getting a good "beginners pup" are not in your favor. Certainly the PP, RS and GS are probably the strongest; but you could still argue that an English Setter or GSP would be a better choice.

JMO,
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by springpoint » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:54 pm

wow thanks for the answers dave. What i was thinking is a dog for upland hunting and what breed gave you the best chance of getting a good dog or a beginner.

thanks again guys

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by vzkennels » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:00 pm

The lesser known breeds usually cost more with less chance of getting a good one.Just a little something to think about.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by zzweims » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:51 pm

vzkennels wrote:The lesser known breeds usually cost more with less chance of getting a good one.Just a little something to think about.
What he said.

(but I'm a sucker for a good red setter)

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by SubMariner » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:04 am

springpoint wrote:I was wondering what you guys think is the best of the lesser known breeds in the field.

pudelpointer
red setter
wiredhaired griffon
small and large munsterlander
gordon setter
french britt

i know i'm missing some but you guys should get the idea
We have a friend who breeds & trains Gordons. Lots of champions in his stable: http://shadowfaxgordonsetters.com/home
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Steve007 » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:28 pm

springpoint wrote: What i was thinking is a dog for upland hunting and what breed gave you the best chance of getting a good dog or a beginner.
It isn't so much the breed as the breeding. There are different "types" in many breeds and this is a very good thing if you know what you want.

As an example, there are three different types of Gordon Setters (other than show dogs). You have a referral here to the AKC Field Trial type.I had a great dog of that type for 16 years. We competed successfully in a number of areas, and I wiil never have a better friend and hunting partner.But they are hot, high-energy, heck-for-leather dogs that are not right for most beginners.

A far better choice is the Gordon"dual dog" type.Gordons have separated into field and show, and show dogs are NOT good bird dogs.But there are people who combine the two effectively, yielding (frankly) a mediocre show dog (too small) and a mediocre trial dog(too slow).But what they are is easy-training cooperative hard-working bird dogs and great house pets.

Here's a link. Just tell the highly knowledgable breeder (Dan Voss) that you want a dual dog, not a trial dog (he has a young pure trial-bred dog, as well as his dual dogs). I had a litter sister to one of his dual champions, and for all that my pure trial dog was a genius,she sure convinced me that for a non-fanatic who just wants to hunt and maybe do hunt tests, a dual-bred Gordon is a much better way to go. And a responsible adult Gordon will take care of you and your family if you need him to as well. Not a kennel dog, though. Keep him in the house.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:37 am

I couldn't agree more with the above post. For a beginner or for a "hunting-family" animal, that type of Gordon, or a Ryman-Old Hemlock ES, a Spinone or a Bracco Italiano is a good path.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by fuess » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:55 am

Another vote for the "dual dogs". ANd specifically the Dual Gordon. After 15 yrs of owning duals, could never imagine anything else.

Here is a website from a friend who owns one of the more famous duals, and it also happens to be the grandsire to my existing pup!

http://www.feathermankennels.com

Glad to see the "lesser" known breeds are getting a little attention!

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:42 am

They should they have a lot to offer...and technically they are only "lesser known" breeds here in the US. :lol:

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by myerstenn » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:05 pm

You have probably answered your own question, they are lesser known for a reason. Not to say you cant occasionally get a good one but your odds would be a little better with a shorthair, bitttany or one of the more popular contiental breeds With that said, you must pick something out of quality breeding stock with a good genetic background . Even high quality parents are not successful producers

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:54 pm

I am not sure I agree with your point on the odds but that wasn't my point at all. My point was that if you were hunting in Italy, lets say, no one would consider a Bracco or Spinone as a "lesser known" breed. Actually the guys that design and make the guns that we all love whether we own one or not would chuckle.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by fuess » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:18 pm

On this side of the pond, and speaking of Gorsons, there are a number of breeders who contantly/consistantly produce good/great dogs.

They have a long following of people who get/use/brag about their dogs because you know what you are getting. I think they are lesser just because not as many dedicated breeders who consistanly throw quality animals.

The Irish/Gordon setters do get a bad wrap because of the show lines, but I am glad there are still people figtn the fightn to keep the "hunt" still in the dogs!

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:38 pm

fuess wrote:On this side of the pond, and speaking of Gorsons, there are a number of breeders who contantly/consistantly produce good/great dogs.

They have a long following of people who get/use/brag about their dogs because you know what you are getting. I think they are lesser just because not as many dedicated breeders who consistanly throw quality animals.

The Irish/Gordon setters do get a bad wrap because of the show lines, but I am glad there are still people figtn the fightn to keep the "hunt" still in the dogs!
I don't think there is any way you can make the case that a Gordan is a lesser known breed. They are less popular but are an old breed that has been here for years and has been well known for most of them. The Spinone and many other European breeds are less known since they have only entered this country recently and have not offered any outstanding characteristics that has made them an overnight sensation. All may be nice or even great dogs but they have to have something that is widely desirable going for them if they are ever going to overtake the established breeds that do a good job of fulfilling our needs in this country.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by fuzznut » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:50 pm

I remember back in 1980 when I got my first GWP it was a virtually unknown breed, and even today there will be the average Joe who has never seen one. Then I remember when I was a kid- a friends father had a GSP. This had to be in the 60's.... didn't see too many of them around in those days.

They all started as lesser known breeds, if breeders keep working on bringing the breeds forward and making them useful to the American hunter, many won't be lesser known in the future. At least that is the hope!
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by AndersonSkiTeam » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:15 am

The problem is to become a more popular breed the breed has to excell at field trials. Once they excell at field trials then the common hunter thinks that must be a good dog and the mass frenzy begins. Then soccer moms think some dogs look good in their SUV and you end up with a bunch of show breeds showing up that try to be passed off as hunting lines. Many of the less popular breeds will not out do a GSP or Pointer or Lab in a field trial depending on what type of trial you are doing. I personally don't want a field trial dog and purposefully stay away from strong field trial dogs looking instead for "hunting lines". The wheels off crazy, high energy, big ranging field trial dogs do not suit me or my hunting style. Others give there dogs away if they don't come close to ranging so far they can only hunt with a GPS unit attached to their dog (to many GSP,GWP, WPG, and GSP leading to confusion). For a guy like me a close ranging GWP or WPG ext is perfect and also a dog that I can keep in the house without going a hundred miles an hour. I know I just made a lot of generalizations but no more than the generalizations coming back the other way on the less popular breeds. Go to some of the breeder web sites. There are probably 10-1 GSP over GWP and 10-1 GWP to WPG so there are definitely more options with GSP, but not necessarily better options, just more options. I love all of these dogs and enjoy hunting over my brothers GSP, my GWP, and friends WPG. My preference in hunting style is WPG then my GWP, then GSP for where and what I hunt.

I think it is more in the breeding than the breed. I have seen plenty of whacky labs (one that couldn't swim) and supposed "popular" versatile dogs that won't even think about retrieving and GSP's that look more like Pointers that GSP's(accidental breeding maybe). I love that there are so many dogs and lines of dogs within breeds so I can spend a few years and hours on the internet, hours talking to breeders and hunters, all to try to find the right one for me. And as my Grandpa used to say, if everyone like the same thing as me everyone would want to be married to my wife. I am just thankful that unlike my dog my wife does not have a beard.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Gordon Guy » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:22 pm

I just want to say that many folks have a misconception of what it takes to win an AKC field trial. Even I had the misconception that it takes a horizon seeker to win. Oh contrare...I entered a trial this last fall that was held near my home. I walked three braces of the Limited Gun Dog Walking stake (Dog must have a previous placement in a trial to participate) just to see what a dog was like that had previously won. I needed to know what I was up against. To tell you the truth I was amazed. The majority of these dogs stayed within 200 yards and had great manners. Not the horizon seekers that I thought they would be. But Good solid gundogs that would satisfy the majority of hunters.

I have heard that American Field events require a very different ground race. I'll have to go to one of these events just to see for myself.

As for the lesser known breeds, go and watch the parents and talk to as many owners of the type of dog you're looking for. i'm sure that there are good dogs in any of those breeds.

As you can tell from my Avatar that I prefer Gordons, After having 3 GSP's, English setters, Pointers, Labs and a brit I settled on Gordons and have never looked back. The Gordons I've had are more settled in the house than any of the other dogs I've owned. However, I have recommended other breeds to folks for various reasons. IMO It's hard to beat a GSP for an out of the box gundog/meat dog. ( I say Meat dog in the most positive way possible. For me it means a dog that requires very little in the way of formal training to produce birds for the gun.)

As for Gordons, some lines do have their weak points, ask any breeder (of any breed) what their dogs weak points are and if they say they don't have any I'd look a lot harder at them or somewhere else.
Last edited by Gordon Guy on Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Steve007 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:03 pm

Gordon Guy, I'm glad you liked your Limited Gun Dog Walking Stakes, but here is a link to the AKC and what it takes to win a FC. Points awarded in walking stakes only count in puppy or derby. To win a FC, it's a horseback trial, and it takes a much bigger run. Shooting dog in AF (I've competed and won in both with my FT Gordon) is much the same. Never did (or want to do) All-Age, but my FT Gordon would do at least 1/4 mile casts and work at half-a-mile in the right type of country with me on a horse in a SD or GD FT.

A smart dog---especially a Gordon-- will naturally work much closer when you're on foot in closer cover and carrying a shotgun,but there is no denying that a genuine dedicated purely-FT-bred Gordon is one wired hot dog in the field (they can be very fine house dogs), and you'd better be ready to put in a lot of time and effort to make a top race-bred young Thoroughbred into a good trail horse, unless he only hunts sharp-tailed grouse and prairie chickens in the big country of the west (mixed metaphor,but it seemst o work). For most casual or not-so-casual hunters and certainly for beginners, which was the point of this thread, an intellegently-bred genuine "dual dog"-bred Gordon is a much better choice. IMO.

http://www.akc.org/events/FCtitle.cfm

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:24 pm

Points awarded in walking stakes only count in puppy or derby. To win a FC, it's a horseback trial, and it takes a much bigger run.
Steve,

Don't know where you got this from but there have been many dogs finished in walking stakes. Several on this board walk even in horseback stakes and have done quite well. Plus the point he was making is you do not have to have a big running dog to win. He didn't say that big running dogs were bad.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Dave Quindt » Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:42 pm

Steve007 wrote:Gordon Guy, I'm glad you liked your Limited Gun Dog Walking Stakes, but here is a link to the AKC and what it takes to win a FC. Points awarded in walking stakes only count in puppy or derby. To win a FC, it's a horseback trial, and it takes a much bigger run.
You know not of what you speak. Check your facts!
but there is no denying that a genuine dedicated purely-FT-bred Gordon is one wired hot dog in the field
In the grand scheme of things, your supposed fire-breathing dragon of a FT Gordon Setter is pretty meek and mild when compared to the rest of the birddog world.
For most casual or not-so-casual hunters and certainly for beginners, which was the point of this thread, an intellegently-bred genuine "dual dog"-bred Gordon is a much better choice. IMO.
Huh?
The dual dog wins his FC competing against those supposed high-strung FT rockets of which you speak.

You really crack me up Steve; Gordon Setter field trialing is limited to AKC half-hour, single course, planted bird gundog stakes, There ain't no wild bird trials, no multi-course trials, no AF trials, no regional or species championships. There is no "circuit"; just a bunch of weekend trials often where entries are restricted to setters only, to limit competition.

The AKC only registers roughly 700 Gordons a year; there are probably more FC-sired GSP and Brittany pups successfully placed in the hands of hunters every year than the total number of Gordons whelped!

I think you are lacking a great deal of perspective.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by fuzznut » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:08 am

I'm glad that Gordon Guy actually got out and attended a field trial to see what the dogs are, and what they are not. Too many take things they read, or take what others tell them and never go to see for themselves. You have found out that a good, solid, well trained dog can do well in a trial.

Steve, there are walking trials all over the country and are becoming more and more popular. Both AF and AKC hold walking events. In AKC, a Walking Gun Dog stake holds points toward a FC. I believe your confusion comes from the way the rules are written for the walking puppy and derby stakes. But, trust me.... walking stakes count!

There are of course fire breathing dogs in all breeds, dogs that can't change from field to home. They are wired all the time, and not fun to live with.You can find this trait in any breed. However, there are a lot of dogs out there who can switch on, and then switch off to be nice calm house dogs. Steve, I believe you own one of them! Turn that girl of your loose and she is going, bring her in the house... she finds the nearest dog bed? Right?

As far as which is the best of the lesser breeds, it's all in the eye of the beholder, the look you want, the behaviour you want, how long you want to search for the right dog. Some people just enjoy owning something a bit different, that's fine.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:47 am

There is no question that "tastes" in hunting dogs have changed over the years. When I started shooting and hunting in the late 1970's, in New England, the upper west corner of NJ and upstate NY, hunting dogs were exclusively setters and labs and they tended to be large elegant dogs, the kinds in paintings, and they were pets first and foremost. You never worried about toddlers getting bitten or your wife having to take the dog to the vet on her own, they never travelled in a dog box, there were no E-Collars or other draconian techniques. They found grouse in the Catskills or retrieved in icy NJ coastal waters and that was that.

Some were better than others thats for sure, but if your dog was obedient he or she was welcomed to come along. Interestingly, dogs like are in demand and pricey and waiting times are long.

There is a Ryman-type breeder not far from me thats a good 2 year wait. You guys would laugh at these dogs, sadly.

Anyway, people like me live with 6, 20 inch monitors radiating in my face for 10 hours a day, 2 cell phones, a Blackberry, Business Continuity issues, yada yada yada yada.

We like the opposite in our free time. I don't need to put little orange ribbons on a tuft of grass, or pull the feathers off a hen and let it go in the woods, and keep score and then trash the poor guy whose dog couldn't find the nearly dead bobwhite that was planted somewhere.

By the way, only my dog went into a icy pond this weekend on 12 consecutive long retrieves, 26 degrees. The super-dogs that were with me, decided it was too cold. The guys with the GSP said, "Spinones are pretty tough"

After that, he sat on Santa's lap for the Christmas picture.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Steve007 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:06 am

I accede to the superior FT knowledge of the esteemed fuzznut. Never competed in walking dog trials (or if so, it was so long ago, I have forgotten), so had to rely on my perceptions. Apparently. my error. However, note that my post specifically referenced FT-bred Gordon being wired in the field for a beginner which was the point of the original post that started the thread (and this is correct), but it was clearly mentioned that they are excellent house dogs. I had no intention of suggesting that FT dogs of any breed cannot be totally fine in the house, though there are differences in individuals . I have even in the past idly speculated on getting a FT-bred pointer to be kept as a house dog. Not my breed, but I'd feel confident that they could do well with some work. In any case, I have good reason to know that FT dogs can make great house dogs.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by hustonmc » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:14 am

To each there own, and one persons perception of a good dog can and will be different then another. But remember this.
If you need brain surgery you don't go to a General Practitioner, right? You go to a brain surgeon.
If you want a classy pointing dog, why go to a "lesser known" or "versatile breed" you go to a specialist. Pointer, Setter, and lately SOME lines of Britts and Shortairs.
Everyone has there reasons, just make sure you know what your looking for and what to expect.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by big steve46 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:47 am

hustonmc wrote:To each there own, and one persons perception of a good dog can and will be different then another. But remember this.
If you need brain surgery you don't go to a General Practitioner, right? You go to a brain surgeon.
If you want a classy pointing dog, why go to a "lesser known" or "versatile breed" you go to a specialist. Pointer, Setter, and lately SOME lines of Britts and Shortairs.
Everyone has there reasons, just make sure you know what your looking for and what to expect.
Very good, realistic facts. A good dog is a good dog, but what you say is true.
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:39 pm

big steve46 wrote:
hustonmc wrote:...but what you say is true.
"Truth", outside formal logic, is in pretty short supply. Lots of opinions and preferences though.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Gordon Guy » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:53 pm

You want classy, "Classy" is not restricted to the breeds you referenced.

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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:14 pm


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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by hustonmc » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:24 pm

Gordon Guy wrote:You want classy, "Classy" is not restricted to the breeds you referenced.
Those are NICE looking SETTER'S.......................................................:) I didn't specify in my other post either, but really those are some good looking dogs.
I'm not knocking any breed, a classy pointing dog could come from any breed. Just as there are some GP's that would make great brain surgeons.
It's just fact...........Pointers, Setters are indeed SPECIALIST!!!!!!!. Pointing birds is what they're bred for and ONLY what they have been bred for. I'm sure someone has a Pointer that makes a heck of a rabbit dog, or a Setter that is the real deal for herding sheep.
The "lesser known" breeds are lesser known for a reason. For generation after generation those dogs don't do it like the Pointers and the Setters. Litter after litter, generation after generation, Pointers and Setters have and will remain.....................supreme.
Of course there are some good dogs from all breeds that anybody would LOVE to hunt over, odds are just in your favor if you go with whats been proven for years.

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Winglish
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Winglish » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:44 pm

To each there own, and one persons perception of a good dog can and will be different then another. But remember this.
If you need brain surgery you don't go to a General Practitioner, right? You go to a brain surgeon.
If you want a classy pointing dog, why go to a "lesser known" or "versatile breed" you go to a specialist. Pointer, Setter, and lately SOME lines of Britts and Shortairs.
Everyone has there reasons, just make sure you know what your looking for and what to expect.
Springpoint did mention that he only wants to hunt upland. He didn't mention waterfowling. I have to agree with hustonmc on this one...and I prefer the versatile breeds! The only upland bird that would change my mind would be pheasants hunted in swampy terrain. Then I believe Springpoint would be better off with a wirehaired pointing dog. My Crockett-bred setter would have outhunted my WPG everywhere but the marshlands and extremely thick coverts. Some people say the wirehaired breeds aren't specialists. Horse puckey!!! Give me a good GWP, WPG, or DD and a cattail swamp full of wiley roosters and I'll love my chances when braced against some namby-pamby-open-country-running EP. I did notice Springpoint is from Michigan. I don't live up there, but I can't help but believe that the climate would lend itself to a dog built for cold weather. I'd go setter or Brittany in this case.

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birddog1968
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:55 pm

Winglish wrote:
! Give me a good GWP, WPG, or DD and a cattail swamp full of wiley roosters and I'll love my chances when braced against some namby-pamby-open-country-running EP.

You should have seen my miller dog today wet and muddy, white no more, He was covered in mud......and pinning birds. Hows that for a namby-pamby open country dog?
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

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Greg Jennings
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:07 pm

People slay me. They just slay me.

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mcbosco
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:13 pm

the last dog i would call namby pamby is an EP, a Vizsla maybe :wink:

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Kiki's Mom
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Kiki's Mom » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:13 pm

Nuthin is "mamby Pamby" about a well bred vizsla either :wink:

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Winglish
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by Winglish » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:44 am

I was just teasin', fellers. :lol: A good dog is a good dog. There are prime examples from any of the hunting breeds. I know plenty of those overgrown Chinese-hairless-looking dogs that are pheasant finding machines.

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mcbosco
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by mcbosco » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:47 am

Wing, they just don't understand dogs with beards, :lol:

brookzee
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Re: lesser known breeds

Post by brookzee » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:47 am

i love this forum. i tell you what, ilove any man that sticks up for his breed.that being said,i have witnessed, and i will only speak of what i have seen.hunting and field trials.true high class comes from good ole englisg pointers.big or small ranging a classy pointer floats on the ground and has that tail up over his back whipping and cracking.on point they are pure poetry.the same as for good setters.ep's kind of like edgar allen poe, setters more walt whitman.fuzzy breeds, tough sob's not generally classy on the ground or on point(not saying they dont look good on point, but there is a differnce between lokking good and looking classy).the fuzzies are all around put food on ur table dogs.not always so classy but you will go to bed with a full belly. i have however seen some wirehairs that just blew my mind.shorthairs, vary widely as all breeds will.shorthairs can have high craking tails and tons of class on point,but i have not seen alot that possess a beautiful floating gate and that high cracking tail when stacked up against ep's.gsp's,the ones i like do have nice gaits and cracking tails and have a classy way about them.they in general are great bird dogs,imo.britts,i have owned one and loved him to death,could flat find birds and beautiful on point.i would not say he classy at all, but he looked good.
someone mentioned hunting lines versus field trial lines.i get it but at the same time i dont get it. there is no difference for me.i have won field trials literally days after going wild bird hunting and shooting limits down for my dog.i have a field trial dog that gets hunted from horseback and will roll on 1000-1200 yards.tie the horse to a tree and whalla , she shortens right up when handled from foot.i personally dont like a close working dog, i have no problem with them.but i dont really understand it for practical use.i know of some people whose dogs barely get 40-50 yards out, you caould just about walk without na dog and cover as much ground with 2 to 4 hunters.
i would suggest you figure out exactly what you want.does class and style matter.do you want straight meat and potatoes kind of dog.you obviously want a good pet.look at the parents of your potential pup.if you like them go for it.there is no bad breed of pointing dog.just differnt strokes for different folks.
jason

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