Llewellin Rage ?

[4corners]

Hello All

I just joined this forum so I apologize in advance for any rookie mistakes. I have to put down a 3 yr. old spayed Llewellin Setter and it is because she bit my dog boarder in the nose. He put his face to hers while on my leash. He went to the hospital and my dog went to animal control quarantine for rabies. I have a nine month old son and wife under the same roof . I hope most of you would agree with my decision. My question is this. Have any of you heard of this sort of thing happening specific to this breed or otherwise. She was raised with all the love in the world and never struck or abused ever! She has, however, exhibited spells of staring at nothing and then frantically running around the house. She also,if startled, would growl at people. She has bit several buddies' dogs as well.

Any relevent information would be very helpful. I feel horrible for a multitude of reasons.

Thanks so much

Don

[reba]

Don,

I started to answer your post several times and stopped not knowing what to say.

I feel your pain and you are doing the right thing.

Best wishes for 2010 and may your next dog be the best dog ever.

[Greg Jennings]

I've heard of similar happening with brain tumors...

[4corners]

Thanks Reba and Greg

I strongly feel that this is a rare occurrance with the breed but I have heard of it happening with English Springer Spaniels. It never showed up as a pup

Don

[big steve46]

That's unusual especially for a Llewellin. What about keeping her in an outdoor kennel where she doesn't have to be protective or feel thereatened?

[postoakshorthairs]

I know it's hard but i agree with your conclusion. You'd never forgive yourself if it turned on your wife or child.

What about keeping her in an outdoor kennel where she doesn't have to be protective or feel thereatened

Sorry Steve but i don't see how this would help unless you never plan on getting it out to hunt or exersize...anytime you have it out around other humans or animals you'd have to worry about it turning on them. She's bitten a persons face (and growled at others) and several other dogs...i wouldn't take the chance with my kid or wife.

[vzkennels]

Yep the dog goes to sleep & if not & he bites again could be open for big law suit.

[ACooper]

You are doing the right thing.

[4corners]

Thanks all for your replies. I appreciate the support. I am very interested if anyone has ever heard of this type of behavior specific to the breed. I would like to get another Llewellin, but I don't ever want to go down this road again.

Like the other poster had stated, if there was a way to keep her out of contact until hunting season, she could still bite another person encountered in the field. She did bite my hunting buddy's wire haired and nipped at his hand with a growl. Luckily he had gloves on. Once again, all of the suggestions and comments are very helpful to me right now.

[highcotton]

Don,

I would be interested in knowing the breeding on your dog. Please PM me if you would rather not discuss it on the board.

Charles

[High Brass]

Don
Can't say for sure but I think your dog may have become deaf. Depending on what stats you believe 6.9% to 12.4% of English Setters are deaf at birth or become deaf. It's a genetic problem with the breed. Years ago we had a setter that at probably 8 years of age became deaf. She didn't have a mean bone in her body, but when sleeping she would get startled when some one would get close to her. She also had a litter of pups with one being born deaf at the time.
Just my thoughts
Bob

[highcotton]

Don,

As a Llewellin breeder I am interested in any genetic health or temperment problems associated with the different lines. I have noticed a high % of ill tempered dogs within one certain line of Llewellins and was mainly interested in finding out if your dog is from that particular line. I fully understand if you do not wish to discuss it.

You have made the right decision concerning your dog.

Charles

[highcotton]

Bob,

You are correct in that Setters have genetic hearing problems. The thing that causes most problems for breeders is the fact that many setters are deaf in one ear only. Their hearing in that one ear is so good that people are unaware of the dog having a hearing problem. When those dogs are bred they sometimes produce pups that are deaf in both ears.

The problem seems to be more common in the belton type setters. BAER testing is the only tool we have at present to deal with the problem. I wish more breeders would use it.

http://www.lsu.edu/deafness/deaf.htm

Charles

[Greg Jennings]

I just want to make clear that I had no intent to say this was anything to do with the dog being a Lew (or any other breed).

The dog that I experienced this with had had a head injury and developed a tumor from it. Dog went wacko at the end. Seizures, the whole nine yards.

Greg J.

[4corners]

Thanks again for all of your input. I am pretty sure that she had excellent hearing in both ears, vision and sense of smell. We did some simple at home tests on her when her issues started to develop. I am very interested in what Highcotton had to say about the particular line of ill tempered Llewellins. I don't believe that this was the result of poor breeding because wouldn't a breeder recognize these faults right away?
Don

[rockllews]

No Don, hearing problems are not always detected by breeders. If they are only unilaterally deaf, then they may appear to have decent hearing and if they don't always listen it may be chalked down to disobedience. IF there was a genetic deafness occuring, neither parents would necessarily appear affected either, depending on the mode of inheritence. It could just be appearing in the pups, and as Charles mentioned, very few Llew breeders do BAER testing of their breeding stock, much less each pup that comes out of a cross. Sometimes in a litter, you may be able to detect hearing problems right away, but most commonly with bilaterally deaf pups. Another thing that factors in to detecting hearing problems is how much contact the breeder has with his dogs and pups. A good article to read on deafness is http://offa.org/deafinfo.html .

All that said, considering this dog bit a person that she saw coming and has had dominance issues, I'm not very convinced it had anything to do with her hearing....

[BrettBryan]

I've seen a couple Llewellin's that were ill. And i've seen some English setters that were ill too. Maybe, it's just certain bloodlines.

I had one of Ray Jones setters bite Boss through the nose at a NSTRA trial in AR about two years ago. The dog was either Sir Smokin Rocky or Sir Smokin Buddy that did it. Both are his dogs and both are ill tempered animals. Now, i don't know if it's the blood or what, but both of those animals are flat just mean dogs. They will try to bite dogs, people. That's a fact. Why dogs like this are allowed to run or even be on the same grounds as a NSTRA trial, i will never know.

I would love to hear other people with experience in this line of setters say something about this bloodline of setters.