Dilemma on new pup...please help

[sowbellybass]

I'm helping a friend that is looking at dogs.

Anyway, need advice on this situation:
he has a gsp pup that he's looking at. The remaining litter mates all died after a week/2 of being born; because the litter got too cold where the guy kept his pups--leaving just this one pup left. The remaining male is doing well and seems to be growing well.
A.) will there be socialization issues with this puppy not having litter mates
B.) should he be concerned about any other potential health issues down the road; assuming that since he is the only one who survived, he probably was in bad shape at one point too.

Please don't shoot the messenger on this one---the litter dying obviously isn't a good situation and something happened that has nothing to do with him/I. He would be getting a decent deal on the dog but obviously it isn't worth that if the dog is going to have problems socially/health-wise. Was just wondering if those (or any other) issues should steer him away from the dog. Thanks in advance.

[Birddog3412]

Where do you live? I just dont understand, I mean as long as there was something to stop the wind the heat from the mother and all the littermates should have been sufficient.

If the pups dieing was an accident, I would not have a problem buying the pup. If the breeder was to lazy or didnt have anywhere for the jip to get in, i am not sure if I would buy from him.

If pup is doing good and up to date on shots and worming then health issues should not be a problem.

Socialization, I cant answer that. If he does get the pup do it as soon as he is weaned, give the pup alot of attention.

[CherrystoneWeims]

Singleton pups can have social issues with other dogs. It takes a lot of work to overcome this. This is why many times if a breeder has a singleton pup they will put them into another litter close in age. Or what I also have seen done is if there is a large litter from another bitch then the large litter is split between the two dams.

[sowbellybass]

Where do you live? I just dont understand, I mean as long as there was something to stop the wind the heat from the mother and all the littermates should have been sufficient.

Yes--I agree...but that's just what he was told and that's all we're going to get. So, mostly seeking opinions on the effect of that puppy being single/solo. Thanks for the help/replies.

[GrayDawg]

Just my .02 cents........... tell your friend to steer clear. If he wants a GSP pup that he'll use for hunting, I can provide you/him the contact info
of a breeder who will have pups on the ground this week.

Something is fishy about this one & if the breeder isn't going to come clean regarding the circumstances leading up to the rest of the litter's death.
then this is in indicator that would lead me to run away from this breeder faster than a psychotic horse from a burning barn.

Socialization issues are tough to overcome- not that they can't be, but why go into a new pup knowing this will be something you'll have to deal
with when there are tens of breeders out there RIGHT NOW who you can get a well socialized pup from?

Rob

[Birddog3412]

Just my .02 cents........... tell your friend to steer clear. If he wants a GSP pup that he'll use for hunting, I can provide you/him the contact info
of a breeder who will have pups on the ground this week.

Something is fishy about this one & if the breeder isn't going to come clean regarding the circumstances leading up to the rest of the litter's death.
then this is in indicator that would lead me to run away from this breeder faster than a psychotic horse from a burning barn.

Socialization issues are tough to overcome- not that they can't be, but why go into a new pup knowing this will be something you'll have to deal
with when there are tens of breeders out there RIGHT NOW who you can get a well socialized pup from?

Rob

VERY WELL SAID!!

[Sharon]

Just my .02 cents........... tell your friend to steer clear. If he wants a GSP pup that he'll use for hunting, I can provide you/him the contact info
of a breeder who will have pups on the ground this week.

Something is fishy about this one & if the breeder isn't going to come clean regarding the circumstances leading up to the rest of the litter's death.
then this is in indicator that would lead me to run away from this breeder faster than a psychotic horse from a burning barn.

Socialization issues are tough to overcome- not that they can't be, but why go into a new pup knowing this will be something you'll have to deal
with when there are tens of breeders out there RIGHT NOW who you can get a well socialized pup from?

Rob

Exactly.

[AzDoggin]

This pup won't likely be "normal" but I guess it may also depend some on what type of experience your friend has training, and what his needs are for a dog. Possibly for a pet at home...but I agree with the others that if he wants the dog for a trainable hunter, there will PROBABLY be more difficulties than with a dog from a more typical upbringing. From what I've read, it will likely be highly anxious around other dogs, and more dependent upon humans than "typical."

Dr. Ed Bailey is a behavioral ethologist out of Canada. You can search his articles on Google. Wrote alot for GunDog magazine and co-authored the "Green Book" for training versatile gun dogs - NAVDHA
http://navhdastore.org/thetrainingandca ... ngdog.aspx

Here are a couple links I just saw. Lots of good info here...

http://rrcus.org/rhodesianridgebackheal ... Bailey.pdf

http://rrcus.org/rhodesianridgebackheal ... Bailey.pdf

http://www.shorthairs.net/DixieLitter/W ... fault.aspx

http://www.gundogsupreme.org/LinkClick. ... 1&mid=2370

Good luck to you and your friend.

[birddogger]

Just my .02 cents........... tell your friend to steer clear. If he wants a GSP pup that he'll use for hunting, I can provide you/him the contact info
of a breeder who will have pups on the ground this week.

Something is fishy about this one & if the breeder isn't going to come clean regarding the circumstances leading up to the rest of the litter's death.
then this is in indicator that would lead me to run away from this breeder faster than a psychotic horse from a burning barn.

Socialization issues are tough to overcome- not that they can't be, but why go into a new pup knowing this will be something you'll have to deal
with when there are tens of breeders out there RIGHT NOW who you can get a well socialized pup from?

Rob

Agreed!!

Charlie

[Ron R]

Was it a small litter (3 or 4 pups) or a big litter (8+ pups). How many pups were in the litter and did they die off one at a time or did he go out to check on them and find them all dead. Is it possible that the mother killed the pups or refused to care for them any longer or is her milk bad. Was this the gyp's first litter. I hate to see a breeder hung out to dry without knowing more information. I'm not defending anybody and there is no excuse for pups to die of neglect and if that turns out to be the case I would stay away from this breeder just out of general principle. I'm just curious about the details.

From my personal experience I don't see any future dog socialization problem with a solo pup or a pup removed from the litter at 6 weeks. Just socialize the pup with friendly dogs in the same manner you would socialize them with new people.

Ron

[snips]

I do not know why you say the litter could not get too cold. I had a litter outside in the summer, but cool snap in the 50's and pups were born good, all nursing...Within 2 hours (had a heat lamp on too) they quit nursing...I called my vet and he told me to take their temp..Sure enough they had dropped some...I was putting hot water bottles and a heater on them next couple of hours til they were warmed....Books all say heat is imperitive.

[postoakshorthairs]

Search "butterball" on here. This is a single pup from an AI breeding and the pup looks pretty darn normal to me. Check out the youtube link to her below. Granted the circumstances are a little different but both raised without littermates. Just a thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqjClwRpUdI

[Ridge-Point]

My dog Bullet was the only pup in his litter. He is a very bold and talented dog. He has always gotten along well with other dogs. At one time I had him doing some pretty advanced retrieving work, multiple marked retrieves, piles, hand signals, and multiple blinds. I have never force fetched him, he delivers at heal to hand, and is steady.

The thing about him is that he loses his confidence in himself sometimes. I don't know for sure but I assume that may have something to do with never being stressed by his litter mates.

[dudleysmith]

I know of several dogs from single litters that made Ch's so this mess of the pup being goofy is just plain silliness.

[snips]

DC Timberdoodles Lancer Answer was a single pup.

[vzkennels]

I might be mistaken but I have heard that NFC/FC Tonelli's Rising Sun was a single pup.

Quite a few of the solid Lvrs go back to Lancer's Answer. My S LVR foundation bitch Ginger was one of them.

[Greg Jennings]

I'm not worried about this being a single pup. I just haven't heard anything to recommend it. Not that there isn't, I just haven't heard anything positive that gets my attention.

[Casper]

I might be mistaken but I have heard that NFC/FC Tonelli's Rising Sun was a single pup.

Quite a few of the solid Lvrs go back to Lancer's Answer. My S LVR foundation bitch Ginger was one of them.

You are correct on this. Maybe one day I will get Lou to tell me Sonnies story again and write it down. Be nice to keep a biography record of influential dogs of the breed.

[GrayDawg]

but that's just what he was told and that's all we're going to get. So, mostly seeking opinions on the effect of that puppy being single/solo. Thanks for the help/replies.

The quote above, responding to someone who was probing the circumstances leading up to the death of the rest of the litter, is what prompted me to offer the advice that I did. If you can't trust a breeder to be completely open & honest with you, then you should take your business elsewhere. The person who this pup will be placed with, is taking on a 10-12 year commitment to this dog. The least the breeder can do is open up their Kimona and tell all.

Like I said before, socialization issues can be overcome. But a breeder who won't tell all or won't tell the truth isn't someone I'd recommend anyone to do business with. Given the information provided to us here on the board, that's my advice & I'm sticking to it.

Rob

[Ron R]

but that's just what he was told and that's all we're going to get. So, mostly seeking opinions on the effect of that puppy being single/solo. Thanks for the help/replies.

The quote above, responding to someone who was probing the circumstances leading up to the death of the rest of the litter, is what prompted me to offer the advice that I did. If you can't trust a breeder to be completely open & honest with you, then you should take your business elsewhere. The person who this pup will be placed with, is taking on a 10-12 year commitment to this dog. The least the breeder can do is open up their Kimona and tell all.

Like I said before, socialization issues can be overcome. But a breeder who won't tell all or won't tell the truth isn't someone I'd recommend anyone to do business with. Given the information provided to us here on the board, that's my advice & I'm sticking to it.

Rob

I'm not defending anybody and there is no excuse for pups to die of neglect and if that turns out to be the case I would stay away from this breeder just out of general principle. I'm just curious about the details.

I'm pretty much agreeing with you on that but disagreeing with you on the issue of a solo pup having social problems. Remember, I stated based on my personal experiences so thier is really nothing to argue about here.

Ron

[SFK]

I might be mistaken but I have heard that NFC/FC Tonelli's Rising Sun was a single pup.

Quite a few of the solid Lvrs go back to Lancer's Answer. My S LVR foundation bitch Ginger was one of them.

You are correct on this. Maybe one day I will get Lou to tell me Sonnies story again and write it down. Be nice to keep a biography record of influential dogs of the breed.

Sonny's story is a great one and I agree it needs to be written down. Although I think hearing if directly from Lou will be the best way to hear it. He tells it pretty good and will be hard to beat.

[ezzy333]

I would rather have a pup from a litter but sure wouldn't shy away from it just because of that. There are many single pups and I doubt if anyone can tell if they are later. Make an effort to get the pup around other puppies if possible and definately around other dogs and you should be ok.

Ezzy

[Ken Lynch]

Funny that no one has asked what the dam and sire are like. Was it a line breeding or an outcross breeding? Are both, dogs that you like and wish you had? If so, chances are in your favor you will end up with a dog something like them.

[Greg Jennings]

Funny that no one has asked what the dam and sire are like. Was it a line breeding or an outcross breeding? Are both, dogs that you like and wish you had? If so, chances are in your favor you will end up with a dog something like them.

Read my post above:

[quote = "Greg Jennings"] I'm not worried about this being a single pup. I just haven't heard anything to recommend it. Not that there isn't, I just haven't heard anything positive that gets my attention. [/quote]

The pup might be there greatest thing ever. No one knows. I got the idea from:

but that's just what he was told and that's all we're going to get

that it was a kind of take it or leave it thing and no more information was forthcoming. But you know how internet miscommunication is....

I put the fellow onto good pups sired by my male that are near him. They're well-started on birds, socialized, housebroken, received good comments in the show ring and still asking bargain basement new puppy price.

[ezzy333]

Funny that no one has asked what the dam and sire are like. Was it a line breeding or an outcross breeding? Are both, dogs that you like and wish you had? If so, chances are in your favor you will end up with a dog something like them.

This is probably because the original post asked two very specific questions and the breeding of the pup was not one of them. They were concerned about health issues and socialization. Those are the topics most of the posts have tried to address.

Ezzy

[Ken Lynch]

Not trying to hijack the discussion. Just pointing out the fact that if both parents are healthy and have the characteristics that you like then heredity is in your favor in that the puppy will inherit those characteristics. That being said environment then comes into play on how those inherited characteristics are influenced. If the inherited characteristics are such that the dog is referred to as soft then environment will undoubtedly greatly influence the outcome of the dog. Read that as care must be taken because of higher chance of problems. If the inherited characteristics are such that the dog is referred to as bold then environment will play a lesser role in the outcome of the dog. Read that as less chance of problems. In both cases the outcome of the dog is in reference to the question of whether a single puppy will be a problem.

Bottom line is that I agree with what has previously been suggested. Nothing has been posted buy the person that originally asked the question that suggests that this puppy is anything other than just a puppy.

[ezzy333]

I read the original post that the question was would the fact that the pup happened to live through a situation that killed the rest of the litter have a bearing on the health and trainability of the pup. Maybe I am wrong.

Ezzy