Gun Dog Forum

This topic may hit some nerves, but after seeing these photos I think you'll understand where I'm coming from. My number 1 hobby in life is my bird dogs, number 2 hobby and matched equal in passion is raising club lambs. I do as much research into which rams to breed to which ewes as many of the dog breeders on this forum, and have had very good success. I have been looking forward to our spring lambing this year because we held back some super ewe lambs from a succesful lamb crop and bred them to a proven ram. Thursday morning I got the call from my mother that there had been a wreck. The neighbors dogs has gotten into the sheep.
Being a sheep producer this is a common battle that we must fight. Year after year irresponisble "city" people move closer and closer to the country to get away from the hub bub of life, with no regard to who they effect. These few irresponsible people believe living in the country on 2 acres automatically gives their dog free run of the county. Majority of the new neighbors refuse to put up fences because "their dogs never leave the yard," and "wouldn't harm a fly." We repair fence, bury holes, nothing seems to slow them down. Our current neighbors for the most part have been friendly but lately have followed the common theme and refuse to keep their dogs under control.
Growing up the first animals I killed were neighbors dogs killing sheep, before I was 15 I had killed over a dozen dogs. Needless to say this strains relations, but only for the ones to iggnorant to keep their dogs where they belong.
The current situation came to light this last summer when the neighbors picked up a husky/mutt to play with their 2 current labs, 1 chocolate, 1 yellow. Together these labs would sneek over and snoop but it was just a matter of time before the new pup became a bad influence. Many times my mother called pleading to lock their dogs up, breaking down to tears after repeated attempts were always unanswered. We tried every avenue to avoid shooting the dogs, until finally Wendsday night happened.








The dead ewe was my best ewe, out of proven lines and a specimen to behold
Of the 2 that got hit hard and lived, 1 might make it. I expect the one to succumb, although we are working around the clock to keep it disinfected and healing properly. I imagine both these ewes will abort if they do live. 2 Other ewes just had wool pulled and made it out with nothing then a little stress, my might abort as well.
The cops were notified as were the neighbors. Although they are pleading innocent we had a wintess driving down the road that morning and chasing them off, positively identifying the husky/mutt and 2 labs. But because she didn't actually see it killing the one, there is nothing we can do about it.
If your interested in what I'm going to do about it.............................Lets just say my father and I have been doing shifts in the nearby barn. The lab was caught last night on my game camera crossing our property, and the husky was seen walking the fence. I think it's safe to say that my Tuesday morning the threat will be gone. But to late, the damage has been done, my spring crop is walking the thin red line of disaster. The biggest issue is next year we will have to do it all over again, as yet another irresponsible dog owner lets their dog roam free.

Thats a bad deal. We had the same thing happen about 10 years ago, german shepard/wolf hybrid dogs. We used the same solution.

I feel the same way... I don't raise club lambs but I do raise hair sheep and a few cattle and though I don't have as much passion for them as you do for yours, but I have ZERO use for a stock killer and even less use for lazy irresponsible dog owners.

Yep, the dogs would meet their maker. You have no other choice. It is just a shame that there are people that irresponsible and that inconsiderate of other people and their property.

Charlie

You should not have to do this but: with all the courage u have and hiding your anger, go to them, show proof of their dogs on game camera, show these pics, and also visit new neighbors and show these pics, get the word out, I can remember 25 years or so ago we had an old mutt, loved to roam, I would not have believed she would do that, but after years of experience in the outdoor world and dogs I know they can and will!

Really no decision to make here. The moment they cross the property line do what needs done. Not your fault, not even the dogs fault, absolutely on the owner 100%.

Do what you gotta do.....

I feel your pain! I too raise sheep and if they were mine I would be doing the same thing!

HAPPY HUNTING

Ron

I would suggest that you consider trapping the dogs alive. Then go to the dogs' owner and show them the game camera pics and firmly request payment for the dead sheep. If the owner refuses, then shoot the dogs. That will make your point and well as giving them the opportunity to do the right thing. Later, if they blame you for killing their dogs, you will know that you gave them every opportunity to rectify the situation. That will also insure they don't assume the dogs ran away and buy more dogs and continue with their irresponsible behavior.

I'll bet if you trap them first and then shoot them you will be in all kinds of trouble. The reason you shoot first is the fact you can't catch them. You can take the dead dog back to the owners and prove the same thing and they have already had the chance to do the right thing.

Ezzy

number 2 coil spring, or a 52 grain HP work very well.

Years ago when I worked on a big horse farm there were packs of wild discarded dogs that roamed. One day they centered on the field of yearlings and had them running wide open..They called for farm workers to come help, they shot 15 dogs. .One year the dogs ran them til they were pushed over a fence and in the road killing one colt and one had to be put down with a broken leg. So, you have to do what you have to do.

A/C Guy wrote:I would suggest that you consider trapping the dogs alive. Then go to the dogs' owner and show them the game camera pics and firmly request payment for the dead sheep. If the owner refuses, then shoot the dogs. That will make your point and well as giving them the opportunity to do the right thing. Later, if they blame you for killing their dogs, you will know that you gave them every opportunity to rectify the situation. That will also insure they don't assume the dogs ran away and buy more dogs and continue with their irresponsible behavior.

Trapping the dogs on your property, or getting pics of them on your property only proves they were on your property.......it does not prove they attacked your sheep.

It sucks that nothing can be done to reimburse you.

SHOOT THEM BEFORE IT HAPPENS AGAIN!!

I know what you are going through, I lost a colt I had waited years to produce not to mention the number of calves we lost to the same kind of problem. Here is what we did :

We put a signs up : WARNING ! ANY DOGS CAUGHT ON OUR PROPERTY WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT.
AND RETURNED TO OWNERS , YOU HAVE GIVEN US NO CHOICE,YOU REFUSE TO KEEP YOUR ANIMALS
ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY. OWNERS OF SAID DOGS WILL BE MADE TO PAY FOR THE DAMAGES .

We also posted this in the local newspapers, gave description of our property etc... we were told by the County animal control officer, that because we were raising livestock we had the right to protect our property animals etc.

also if you catch these animals on your property if you decide to trap them ,call the police and have them take them back just tell them if we see the dogs on our property again we will shoot them.

Your have covered you butts enough. Afet we did all that, we did not have as much of a problem, so what my Uncle had me do was dig a big hole with the backhoe and every dog we shot went in to the hole. that 1 year we got rid of about 50 dogs that were either dumped out by our place or they were people living around us who thought it was cruel to fence, we live in the country we should not have to fence. They had a real nice newfoundland dog. When I brought it back dead and pictures of what it had done to my prize show calf that year, it was not long till we noticed fences and not long after that they had another dog. and the dog after that was always behind their fence.

Sorry it has to happen but people need to keep their animals where they belong. and sometimes it just has to happen for some people to learn. Like everyone of on this board knows. there is responceabilities in owing a dog.


Just My thought and what we did.

Been there, done that.... hated it, threw up afterwards... but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. I would do it again if it became necessary.

A/C Guy wrote:I would suggest that you consider trapping the dogs alive. Then go to the dogs' owner and show them the game camera pics and firmly request payment for the dead sheep. If the owner refuses, then shoot the dogs. That will make your point and well as giving them the opportunity to do the right thing. Later, if they blame you for killing their dogs, you will know that you gave them every opportunity to rectify the situation. That will also insure they don't assume the dogs ran away and buy more dogs and continue with their irresponsible behavior.

He had already done the neighborly thing by telling them (prior to the slaughter) about their dogs. Where I come from, if a neighbor comes to my door and tells me that my dogs are harassing or killing his livestock (chickens, cattle, or sheep) the first thing I would do is thank him for not killing them. The second would be to give my blessing to shoot them if he catches them doing it again. I don't think that there is anything wrong with letting your dog run loose if you live in the country as long as he/she can't breed and don't bother anybody's livestock or pets. It is not that big of a deal to kill a dog that's doing that. JMO

Ron

While we don't raise any livestock in the country I would like to put my .02 in agreeing about people move out to a little bit of land. (most around us don't even have 1 acre) They think its a license to let their dogs roam free. I know its the owner's fault 100% but but I do feel bad for the dogs. They come in my yard and harass my dogs. (mine are in a fenced yard) We've been turned into animal control more than once for barking dogs (barking ordinance but there is no leash law here so their dogs are free to roam about). I've had my dogs and myself jumped by Pit Bulls. My husband has been bitten more than once by one of the neighbor's mutts. He's so bad that another neighbor has threatened to make him disappear. I just don't understand it. What is the point of even having a dog if your idea of ownership is to just turn the dog out loose to roam the streets? My husband has had to help more than one neighbor pick up parts of their dogs from the nearby highway we live off of after they were run over.

I hate to say it but I have to agree with the rest that you have to do what you have to do. I mean you've warned them and I'm sure you are within your legal rights. Its too bad the owners are so stupid. The neighbors around here are like that too. Oh no their little "angel" couldn't possibly have jumped on me even though I had witnesses etc

Sometimes you just have to do something drastic to get peoples attention.

I had a neighbor with a Doberman that wanted to hang out at my kennel. I couldn't even let a pup out without the Doberman jumping them. I took the dog back home twice and told the neighbors if I had to bring him back again he would be on the tailgate.

The very next day he was back. When I tried to run him off he snarled up like he was going to bite me. I got my 45 out of the truck and eliminated him. The neighbor still does not speak to me. I can live with that.

In my opinion eliminate the threat to your livestock and say nothing to the owners. Legal retaliation is not the only style of retaliation. It sucks but there are some wierd people in this world and they may retaliate for killing thier dogs.

i agree with the rest of yall. shoot them next time you get a chance.

While dogs CAN BE socialized to co-exist with humans and other critters, this is a reminder that they are animals first and left to their own, they do what they need to to survive.

This reminds me of a situation a friend found herself in last year. She had just moved to an acreage close to the Salt River in Mesa, AZ. She was out walking her wolf-hybrid on a leash, and walked on the dry river bottom when they were attacked by a pack of dogs. My friend had no choice but to drop the leash and back away, and the wolf-hybrid had no chance against several wild mutts. My friend was traumatized. She no longer walks her dogs in that area. She regrets not having a handgun at the time - blames herself some - that sort of thing. It was a sad story.

I'm sorry about your sheep. That would be horrible. If the irresponsible owners don't take care of the problem (and they won't), you are left with no alternative other than to extinguish the dogs. You are doing the neighborhood a service. Once that pack of dogs has tasted meat, they are a risk to the entire area, even small children.

Good luck.

so what my Uncle had me do was dig a big hole with the backhoe and every dog we shot went in to the hole.

Just my two cents....I would do it just like this. You've already tried to do it the right way. In my opinion you have a right to protect your property and animals and placing notices in the paper or taking dead dogs back to the owners only opens up other issues. Shoot them, bury them and don't say a word. JMO

A sheep farmer once taught me the "Three S's rule": "Shoot. Shovel. Shhh."

Eliminating the dogs and keeping quiet will solve your problem until the neighbors get more dogs. Then there is a good possibility the cycle will repeat.

I realize there are some real screwballs out there. I also realize there can be risk involved in dealing with them in an agressive manner. But that's a chance I will take to prevent having to take photos like the ones at the start of this thread.

Do everything you can to CYA legally before doing anything.

Not sure about Oregon, but in WV, a landowner has the Legal Right to protect themselves and their livestock from just such attacks. Protect your livestock, notify your local Animal Control so they can come, collect the dogs remains, verify the situation and then let them deal with the owners. All Legal and all bases covered that way.

PS. Once the owners verify to animal control that the no good *%^#%%^$ neighbor shot "THEIR" dogs, you then would have Legal Rights to retribution for the animals/Sheep lost to the dogs attacks. Kinda hard to back pedal on them owning the dogs after admitting it to the A.C. Officer....

While I like the three s approch you do need to punish the owner so it does not continue on and on. I would get that guy who saw the dogs chase your sheep and take the game photos and sue them. If they own the property you could collect if you win a judgment. Dont get me wrong I would shoot the dogs anyway but you need to hurt the owner in order to get it to stop in the future. I am sure the sheep you lost are valuable I would try even if its just small claims.
Just my thought.
mm

Sounds like some dogs are going to meet there maker. It is a shame that becasue of irresponsible people the animals have to pay the price. I for one would do the three S method.

I have had neighbor dogs come from a mile away and "visit" my flight pens. Most Neighbors are good and will take care of the problem, dogs usually dont come back for multiple visits at my place though. Do what you have to to protect your investment, your within your rights.

ever considered getting a pyrenees?? might be able to beat them at their own game. you would be able to provide round the clock protection without being there round the clock. in the mean time, however, those dogs need to be taken care of.

Dog Dr.

One of my neighbors has a Great Pyrenees to guard his herd of milk goats. It works.

I dont know about the laws were you all live but in NJ which has many rather odd Laws if you shoot a dog even on your property your gonna pay
My cousin shot a dog recently in the woods caught in a coyote trap the owner found out, My cousin lost his hunting license for 5 years paid major fines as well, there isnt a season for dogs in NJ and if you shoot one on your property or not its gonna cost ya, luckily the owners dog was a mutt and he got it free or he could have sued as well for replacement of the dog ,


just some food for thought before ya go hunting ya might wanna check your local and state laws first

Briarpatch with all due respect things are handled a little different out West, things tend to sort of work themselves out with common sense first and the courts and laws somtime second if you get my drift! Shoot the dogs and protect what is yours! We dont need any laws to decipher what is right and wrong in cases like this!

It would be my guess that he got in trouble because he shot the dog after it was already trapped. And it has always been the rule of the land if my dog causes problems on someone elses land it is fair game. Both sides know that and if the neighbor didn't shoot it then the owner would.

Ezzy

[quoteMy cousin shot a dog recently in the woods caught in a coyote trap the owner found out, My cousin lost his hunting license for 5 years paid major fines as ][/quote]

exactly why there would only be one person who knew...ME

Here in New Mexico, I would say at least a good persentage of the Sheep & Goat Folks have Either a Guard Dog
Great Pyr, Anatolian Shepard, akabash dog , kuvas .or a guard donkey or Llama, belive it or not ,donkeys and Llama are pretty nasty critters when it come to someone messing with there charges.

Something to think about, after the dogs meet their maker- at least you will not have to worrie with a Llama or Donkey attacking your sheep.



GooD Luck

Not just out west....In Maryland you can lay the smackdown as well.

I had to off 2 pitbulls one year, neighbor had 7 of em......they killed or turned loose 300 quail, 50 chickens and made runs at me twice....they didnt get a third chance. I had documented all cases with animal control and found out they had given other people trouble as well. Dogs were kenneled in a mud pit in overturned washing machines.

Animal control officer (off the record) told me 25-30 years ago you could have just shot the owners

Maverick57 wrote:Here in New Mexico, I would say at least a good persentage of the Sheep & Goat Folks have Either a Guard Dog
Great Pyr, Anatolian Shepard, akabash dog , kuvas .or a guard donkey or Llama, belive it or not ,donkeys and Llama are pretty nasty critters when it come to someone messing with there charges.

Something to think about, after the dogs meet their maker- at least you will not have to worrie with a Llama or Donkey attacking your sheep.



GooD Luck

yeah, i forgot about llamas. they do a good job as well. the university sheep farm had a big llama named george that ran with the sheep. he would come hang out at the vet school sometimes. i always hated having to take care of him cause if you made eye contact for any amount of time he would spit at you! he never got me, but i hated that animal.

I have only known one farmer who tried the Llama. He was not happy with the results. The Llama ran when the cows ran and took out several fences in the process.

What a sad situation. I grew up raising club lambs. Now, all us kids are grown but my parents still raise show lambs that they sell throughout the midwest for county/state fairs. I know how hard you have worked to build a breeding program that works. Folks here know well how tough it is to win a stake of 60 dogs. Try winning the Ohio state fair 4H/FFA show of 400+ club lambs or any other major show. I cannot imagine the outrage if a top ewe was taken down by the neighbors mutt. Fortunately, this hasn't happened to my folks.

I agree with one of the previous posts. If you cant produce enough evidence to sue for damages, just shoot these rogue dogs and bury them. Why sacrifice another great animal in an attempt to get the evidence you need for court. Its not worth it.

I feel for you friend.

Question: What would people do if something was attacking their champion field trial dogs?

The threat would be termanated with a subsonic 22 and become worm food.

Just me.

Boom! Go get the shovel.
I wouldn't think twice about it. You have a lot invested and should not have to deal with that or worry about it again. Boom!

My next door neighbors mutt took a long "ride" after it took a swipe at my fiancee and her lab... BTW I live way out too... Next door neighbors are atleast 1/4 mil

Just call it a long ride and forget about it... Enough said, if the owners dont care either should you

After many many hours of scrubbing scabs, disinfecting puss pockets, daily pennisilin injections, and the constant worry if the ewe would make it to full term, the miracle happed. 2 very healthy, alert and spry baby lambs. One ewe lamb that my mom will most definatley keep and 1 lucky weather lamb that will hopefully pass his luck to a young hard working 4-H kid.
The other ewe is all healed and very pregnant.
Oh ya the neighbors pack leader dog has ran away

Glad to hear things worked out well for you.

hustonmc wrote:[Oh ya the neighbors pack leader dog has ran away

On to greener pastures I hope. Glad it ended up as well as it did!

snips wrote:Years ago when I worked on a big horse farm there were packs of wild discarded dogs that roamed. One day they centered on the field of yearlings and had them running wide open..They called for farm workers to come help, they shot 15 dogs. .One year the dogs ran them til they were pushed over a fence and in the road killing one colt and one had to be put down with a broken leg. So, you have to do what you have to do.

Brenda,

We had this problem when I was living in SE Massachusetts. BUT they weren't discarded dogs. They were people's pets that they would let out in the morning. The dogs would then pack together and attack people's horses, sheep, goats, etc. A friend lost a very nice horse to the pack and someone else I knew lost almost their entire herd of prize winning sheep.