Ryman setters turned into PA shelter

[grnmtns]

There are 5 ryman setters in the Bucks County, PA SPCA that need homes. They were turned into the state by a large breeding kennel in PA. There are 2 1-yr olds and 3 older females. All were evaluated to be healthy and friendly but need training and manners. The dogs are available for adoption for $100, an application must be made and the dog must be spayed/neutered before going home.

I spoke with the shelter this morning. She did not know the name of the kennel involved, but said that it was a very large breeding kennel in east/northeastern PA. Said that the dogs were turned over to the dog warden because an inspection found that they exceeded the number of dogs allowed by PA law. Said that this is the second time this has occurred at this kennel in the past several weeks: her shelter did successfully place the last group of rymans brought in. She does not know if other shelters in PA have more of the dogs. FWIW, there is only one ryman kennel that has a large number of dogs in it, so it doesn’t leave much doubt as to what kennel is involved.

I have been spreading the word and a couple of people are already interested in adoptions. Fingers crossed for these innocent dogs. I am very worried about the future for the other 125 dogs still at this kennel. Photos of the shelter dogs at this site, scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://www.petfinder.com/shelterSearch/ ... &preview=1

[ezzy333]

There are 5 ryman setters in the Bucks County, PA SPCA that need homes. They were turned into the state by a large breeding kennel in PA. There are 2 1-yr olds and 3 older females. All were evaluated to be healthy and friendly but need training and manners. The dogs are available for adoption for $100, an application must be made and the dog must be spayed/neutered before going home.

I spoke with the shelter this morning. She did not know the name of the kennel involved, but said that it was a very large breeding kennel in east/northeastern PA. Said that the dogs were turned over to the dog warden because an inspection found that they exceeded the number of dogs allowed by PA law. Said that this is the second time this has occurred at this kennel in the past several weeks: her shelter did successfully place the last group of rymans brought in. She does not know if other shelters in PA have more of the dogs. FWIW, there is only one ryman kennel that has a large number of dogs in it, so it doesn’t leave much doubt as to what kennel is involved.

I have been spreading the word and a couple of people are already interested in adoptions. Fingers crossed for these innocent dogs. I am very worried about the future for the other 125 dogs still at this kennel. Photos of the shelter dogs at this site, scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://www.petfinder.com/shelterSearch/ ... &preview=1

In stead of worrying about the other 125 well bred dogs, lets all start worrying about our government and the supporters of the legislation that forced these dogs to be taken from their home and placed at the mercy of some organization to find another home for them. It's just a shame that we have become so warped that we feel we have the right to tell someone else what they can do and not do so that they agree with our superior judgement. We have a lot of people who need to be retired from our government and let them get back to being productive citizens who take care of their own lives and not spend their time telling everyone how to live.

Ezzy

[kerplunk105]

Thats my local SPCA. They've been getting quite a few purebred dogs in. They had 7 ES's the other week.

[dog dr]

In stead of worrying about the other 125 well bred dogs, lets all start worrying about our government and the supporters of the legislation that forced these dogs to be taken from their home and placed at the mercy of some organization to find another home for them. It's just a shame that we have become so warped that we feel we have the right to tell someone else what they can do and not do so that they agree with our superior judgement. We have a lot of people who need to be retired from our government and let them get back to being productive citizens who take care of their own lives and not spend their time telling everyone how to live.

Ezzy

my sentiments exactly. if the dogs were healthy and freindly, then the folks were doing their job. the government needs to butt out.

[TAK]

Ezzy! You the man!
The only heartburn I have about this... Is the guy turned them over to a shelter! If he was going to give them away why did he not give them to a possible customer! My opinion it makes him look bad that he let things get out of hand!

Don't you love goverment! They can tell you how many dogs or cats you have but can't on how many kids some have!

[grnmtns]

Thats my local SPCA. They've been getting quite a few purebred dogs in. They had 7 ES's the other week.

Those 7 were from the same kennel.

And Ezzy, I do worry about the other 125 dogs. This is a hunting dog kennel turned puppy mill. If/when the profits fade at this business, either 125 good dogs will be put down or we will be scrambling to help place them. These 5 dogs and the first 7 being tossed aside as surplus are small pieces of evidence of how the operators view their animals. I have more but will not share it publicly.

FWIW, like you I do not want the government telling me what to do with my dogs. This post is about a separate issue, it is about ethics and our dogs.

[ezzy333]

Thats my local SPCA. They've been getting quite a few purebred dogs in. They had 7 ES's the other week.

Those 7 were from the same kennel.

And Ezzy, I do worry about the other 125 dogs. This is a hunting dog kennel turned puppy mill. If/when the profits fade at this business, either 125 good dogs will be put down or we will be scrambling to help place them. These 5 dogs and the first 7 being tossed aside as surplus are small pieces of evidence of how the operators view their animals. I have more but will not share it publicly.

FWIW, like you I do not want the government telling me what to do with my dogs. This post is about a separate issue, it is about ethics and our dogs.

I'm sorry but I see little difference between the government or some individual deciding whats ethical and what isn't. It sounds like you are dealing with a hunting dog kennel that is raising pups, sells them to people who want them, and you have decided that isn't ethical. I am not interested in doing what this kennel is and am not even saying they are doing it the way I would like. But I will defend their right to do it until there is evidence the dogs are being treated inhumanely or worse. And by inhumane I am not talking about some animal rights definition of inhumane.

We happen to live in a society where we still have a little freedom to do what we want but admittedly there are many people trying to take that away from us. I think they call it a capitalistic society where some produce and others use and the transfer is made by the producer selling and the user buying. Why is there a need for someone to say it isn't right to do that.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

There are 5 ryman setters in the Bucks County, PA SPCA that need homes. They were turned into the state by a large breeding kennel in PA. There are 2 1-yr olds and 3 older females. All were evaluated to be healthy and friendly but need training and manners. The dogs are available for adoption for $100, an application must be made and the dog must be spayed/neutered before going home.

I spoke with the shelter this morning. She did not know the name of the kennel involved, but said that it was a very large breeding kennel in east/northeastern PA. Said that the dogs were turned over to the dog warden because an inspection found that they exceeded the number of dogs allowed by PA law. Said that this is the second time this has occurred at this kennel in the past several weeks: her shelter did successfully place the last group of rymans brought in. She does not know if other shelters in PA have more of the dogs. FWIW, there is only one ryman kennel that has a large number of dogs in it, so it doesn’t leave much doubt as to what kennel is involved.

I have been spreading the word and a couple of people are already interested in adoptions. Fingers crossed for these innocent dogs. I am very worried about the future for the other 125 dogs still at this kennel. Photos of the shelter dogs at this site, scroll to the bottom of the page:
http://www.petfinder.com/shelterSearch/ ... &preview=1

No matter how we politically feel about WHY these dogs are in the shelter facts are they are there and grnmtns is trying to help get them placed before they are put down.

Hopefully they will find homes or be rescued where they can be placed in homes

thanks for the heads up

[grnmtns]

Ezzy: You should know that your focus and concerns are totally different than that of the other boards where I posted this information. Other boards focused on the dogs and were quick to identify concern about a breeder who would allow this to occur to animals for whom they were responsible. k9 is correct - I am trying to rescue 5 dogs in a kill shelter as well as reflect on the ethics of a breeder that would allow this to occur. Your response and attitude are why I do not participate on this board.

[Greg Jennings]

Let's focus on getting the dogs adopted. We can hash out the other later.

[birddog1968]

The kennel these dogs came from had inside outside runs, the outside portion was 5 X 16 long....the state of pa
has determined that isnt enough room for a dog to be kenneled in :roll: The kennel had to rebuild all its runs to
adhere to new regulations.

This and the taking/turning in of dogs is all a product of HSUS legislation. They have pressed lawmakers (bleeding
hearts) in 32 or more states. This is all HSUS's bid to wittle at the edges in order to make it harder for pure bred
dog breeders to stay in business.

Do a little research and check in with the sporting dog alliance.......this kind of government regulation is a direct
attack on what we love (hunting dogs) and the breeders who supply them to us. Brushing it aside (apathy) is exactly
what the animal rights wackaloons are hoping for.

[Mountaineer]

......... It sounds like you are dealing with a hunting dog kennel that is raising pups, sells them to people who want them, and you have decided that isn't ethical. I am not interested in doing what this kennel is and am not even saying they are doing it the way I would like......

Afraid you are under a general misunderstanding of the poster's position and this situation in particular, ez.
Has zero to do with selling dogs to anyone....these setters, older females and young dogs, appear to be dumped in kill shelters rather than try to find homes for them within the hunting fraternity....this kennel has the ability to access a great many folks rather than do a dump & run.
Yes, the guvmint may be the cause but the choice the kennel is making is the real sticking point now....not the guvmint involvement.
At least at this point.
As this matter becomes more known, the kennel itself may be under greater problems from those within the hunting setter community that find their actions reprehensible...and that is putting it very mildly.
And so, the remaining dogs may face the same issues down a short road.
125 setters is tough to absorb quickly.
Sadly, it looks like these folks take the easy and cheap way out of a situation and always will.

Had the management of this facility not changed last Fall, I expect the matter would not have arisen or would have been handled much differently.

The point is ...setters are in trouble.
The poster is looking to find help whereever possible for dogs....ignoring her pleas for concentration on some greater good of fighting "the Man" is a real shame and speaks to a loss of focus on the short-term issues many dogs face.
Wake-up.

[birddogger]

I am sorry Greg, but I just have to put in one comment. ezzy is exactly right!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The authorities and humane groups are the ones that are most inhumane!!!!!

Charlie

[mcbosco]

Frankly, I would like to see much tougher laws on breeders particularly in certain states. The bitches at that shelter should have been retired and placed years ago. Clearly that kennel went puppy mill.

[birddog1968]

Frankly, I would like to see much tougher laws on breeders particularly in certain states. The bitches at that shelter should have been retired and placed years ago. Clearly that kennel went puppy mill.

Hsus is on the job, maybe give them a call. :roll:

[ezzy333]

Frankly, I would like to see much tougher laws on breeders particularly in certain states. The bitches at that shelter should have been retired and placed years ago. Clearly that kennel went puppy mill.

Who made the decision that the females should have been retired years ago and if that was true why weren't they informed? Guess I would be guilty also if I had a good bitch that raised good puppies.My best two females raised their last litters when they were nine and did a nice job. Had one Champion out of each of those litters.

And while we are discussing this who made the decision that this kennel is a puppy mill and what law is being broken if it is?

Like I said before I wouldn't do what this gentleman did if I could avoid it. But the way we have to do things today if he had culled those dogs himself then he would have been prosecuted for that. We make all of these laws and then criticize people because of those very laws. The law says he has to get rid of the dogs but he can't do it himself and if he couldn't sell them what was he supposed to do?

Ezzy

[birddogger]

Frankly, I would like to see much tougher laws on breeders particularly in certain states. The bitches at that shelter should have been retired and placed years ago. Clearly that kennel went puppy mill.

Be careful what you ask for, you just may get it.

Charlie

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am new here to this forum, I own Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers in the mountains of Pa. I own and train Ryman dogs myself. I have known Ken Alexander and the DeCoverly business all my life.
Ken left the business in Sept of last year, the new management and ownership of Decoverly kennels evidently has changed the time honored tradition of housing or finding good homes, for the life blood of their Ryman stock. The dogs in the Bucks County SPCA are from DeCoverly Kennels, and placed there over the last few weeks.
The female Blue Belton, named Jasmine, I personally tried to purchase from Ken years ago, but at that time they wanted to keep her for breeding purposes.
If it were spring or fall I would acquire all 5 Ryman dogs from the Bucks County SPCA, training and keeping Jasmine as my person gun dog, I would probably keep Deb for the rest of her life also, the 3 other dogs I would find good new homes for. Unfortunately it is winter time here in Pa, and a bad one at that, we can not get into our back woods training facility/kennel in Potter/Tioga, because of the deep snow. I have 6 gun dogs here at my home kennel and I am maxed out on kennel space. Please pass the word that these Ryman dogs need and deserve good homes. In reality there was never a need for any of this to happen, I am still on the DeCoverly e-mail list and many others like myself, would have taken these dogs, if they wanted to find them good homes. Instead this unprofessional action took place.
RGD/Dave

[mcbosco]

Do you guys think the temperament descriptions of those ES's are correct. I would think this line of setters especially at these ages would be pretty ideal pets for a family even with young kids. I wonder why the proviso for kids. That certainly doesn't help the adoption process.

[Mountaineer]

....The law says he has to get rid of the dogs but he can't do it himself and if he couldn't sell them what was he supposed to do? Ezzy

Try to place them in homes in the long tradition of the that kennel toward the caring for english setters, of course.
He should have done what folks are trying to do doing now and he had the network to pull it off.
It ain't rocket science....it is reprehensible.

Older females kept as breeders may not always be conditioned to folks and families when put in new circumstances....birddog folks know what these dogs are, what they represent and what they need.
Giving this "person" a pass is just plain sad.
Putting setters in danger's way is sadder still.

[Greg Jennings]

Could we all please focus on getting the dogs placed before hashing out the related issues....

[mcbosco]

a guy at work is going to call about the male, he has a big spread in the catskills

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Gentlemen,
All these dogs have been mostly kept in kennels, they will adapt quicky to a personal home situation, they will need training. Ryman dogs especially older ones adapt but probably will have seperation anxiety. They are beautiful animals, and make very loving pets. The SPCA dose not like to place animals in hunting homes, so be careful what you say to them when you call.
RGD/Dave

[dog dr]

does anybody know 100% without a doubt that this gentlemen DIDNT try to place these dogs?? seems to me all we know for sure is that the powers that be forced him to get rid of some dogs for less than legitamate reasons. if i am wrong, somebody tell me.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Dog Dr,
There may have been some small effort to place some of the dogs, only Sardoni will know that for sure. However if he really wanted to place the dogs quickly, DeCoverly has a past and present ownership list, developed by Ken Alexander over the years. DeCoverly Kennels also has a world wide web sight, and all the business needed to do was use that sight, to place the dogs, at a discount or for free. DeCoverly made no such effort to contact Ryman owner. I am on that e-mail list, myself and many others, would have purchased more than one of these dogs, if DeCoverly would have made the effort to place them. Sorry Doc this is just a case of real bad kennel
management.
RGD/Dave

[bhairhoger]

This is the info I have. A person I know has a DeCoverly dog. They found out about this and called them. He was told that they are not their dogs. Fast forward a day and this was posted on their blog....

http://www.decoverlykennels.com/blog/

Not good for the Decoverly name.

[ezzy333]

Sounds like they did exactly what they were told to do to get rid of the dogs quickly enough to keep from poosibly losing the other dogs or pay a big fine. Just too bad it happened and it's too bad that the original poster was spreading some misinformation if what we hear now is true. Just seems that is the way everything is going lately. Sounds almost like but not as bad as the Minnesota fiasco with a shelter and HSUS. Hope the dogs end up in a good home but too bad dogs of that caliber have to be placed in homes that probably don't hunt and the dogs have to be neutered before the ability of the younger ones has even been determined.

We are all going to be in trouble if we don't get these do good organizations stopped and also get a handle on our law makers.

Ezzy

[Mountaineer]

I suspect the misinformation or spin came out today from DeCoverly...they have a reason to supply such considering the hits they are taking while the original poster was solely concerned about the setters.
I see no reason to villify the poster who first shouted..."Hey, look!..dogs in trouble!"

The question is in the timing...no way was this a surprise for a kennel like them....could they have delayed actions for money reasons?...yes.
But again, they had the ability to get a jump on placements...no way around it.
I truely believe they thought the curtain was thick enough to hide the back room....remember, they refuted the info to start. DIng, Ding!

Hopefully, as many dogs as possible will find homes and lessons will be learned.
Whether the kennel carries on and lives up to it's long reputation and tie-in to George Ryman himself is another issue for another time.
I'll say no more on the subject...just would be a rehash...and this BB appears to be more concerned with the political big picture than setters with names.
More sad that.

[birddog1968]

Does anyone know for sure how many dogs they were required to get rid of?

If possibly those were the last two and the date set by "the state" came due they may have taken them.

Sure sounds like on this a quite a few other boards someone has an axe to grind and finds internet forums the way to do it :roll:

[ezzy333]

Does anyone know for sure how many dogs they were required to get rid of?

If possibly those were the last two and the date set by "the state" came due they may have taken them.

Sure sounds like on this a quite a few other boards someone has an axe to grind and finds internet forums the way to do it :roll:

Sure seems that way and it is too bad. I have not said I wasn't concerned about the dogs that were given up and I did state it seemed a rather shoddy way of doing it. My posts were in response to the original post that stated they were more concerned about the dogs that the kennel still has and that they had turned into a puppy mill. I think that was misinformation being used to influence people who have no knowledge of what is really happening. They weren't as concerned about the five dogs in the shelter as they were to try and attack the kennel as the problem. And my concern is that seems to be the preferred method of the animal rights people. Look at the posts and pictures some of them have put out and have done it with little basis of fact just like this one.

Anyway, since none of know what's really happening and all of this is just conjecture, I think we best just let it go while keeping a vigil for this type of information or misinformation in the future.

Ezzy

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Ladies & Gentlemen,
Seems now everything is starting to work out with the placement of these DeCoverly Ryman dogs in the SPCA, all but one has been spoken for, and another man I know in Texas, is trying to acquire the last male. Thanks to all for spreading the word, it definitely got the dogs placed quickly. From all us Ryman Setter owners, we thank you very much for responding so quickly in helping with the placement of these beautiful Ryman dogs.
RGD/Dave
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

Pine Creek Ryman Daisy on Grouse point in the Pa woods - Daisy is my personal Ryman Gun Dog

[fuzznut]

I don't know if one has anything to do with another... but do a google search for Murder Hollow Bassets in Philadelphia PA.
This was another kennel in PA that supposedly had too many dogs, supposed complaints against them, dogs seized under duress by the SPCA. I followed it for a while, but not sure what it all ended up to be, but I do know dogs were taken and placed against the owners will.

PA's new kennel rules were written to clean up the Amish puppy mills, it was a great thought, however it will wind up taking in all of us who live in the state in one way or another! It's the old, be careful for what you wish for...

I'm no friend of the Bucks SPCA... be careful with them!
Fuzz