premier brittany breeders

[Neil]

I have been hearing how tight Ames is for 50 years, now it is not the prairies, but a dog can show some, many fields are 1/2 mile, and some of the dogs are 2 - 3 fields to the front. It is a myth.

Jetjockey,

You have been told wrong. I placed my first All-Age Brittany in 1973, and I have seen most of the great ones, and the only one I thought could run with an All-Age pointer was a dog you never heard of, Cooper Creek Bobb. We have and have had some nice Britts, but if you would go to a few pointer All-Age championships you would see what I mean. There is All-Age and then there is All-Age. I have been to trials where the dog, handler and scout leave at the breakaway at a gallop, all three fading out of sight, with only two of the three returning to the front in sight of the judges every 20 minutes or so.

You were told right though that there is way more to an All-Age than just range, but he must have that too.

Neil

[jetjockey]

Thats interesting. Because one guy is a pointer guy with a lot of knowledge of both breeds, and the other has a family member who owned a EP NC, and also knows a lot about brits (one has been to Ames several times). I got to watch a couple brits go as big as you described in the plains. 1/2-1 mile out much of the time. But Ive also been told there are only about 30-35 TRUE AA Brits in the country as well. Looks like Im gonna have to make a trip to Ames next year.

[A/C Guy]

In my experience the French Britt is by no means less dog than the American. (Same backgrounds) In fact there is less fluctuation in the breed as a whole. Folks think the French Brit is close working, that is a matter of where you hunt like most dogs. And how you raise them. Closer than Trial bred Brits for sure but mine will go from 50 to 150 in grouse woods and open up more in field or open hunting or trials. So just like all intellegent dogs they do what they need to find birds. I would never say my dogs would be a 1/4mile away though. I am too slow for that any way.

I have seen a horseback All-Age Field Champion French Brittany ( FC Le Grand Tank Du Fayette) at a mile + on my Garmin, it is a myth and a marketing ploy that they are close hunters. They are great dogs and will run with the best of them. I saw the same dog have 3 finds in 18 minutes at the Ames Plantation, when most other dogs (nearly all pointers) were going birdless for the hour. He has 18 AKC placements, and counting.

You would think that they would be beating a path to his door to breed good EB's to him, but nope, they seem more interested in selling the myth than improving the breed (line).

Neil

There is no "myth", how close or far they range is a matter of training the dog. You can teach a far ranging Britt to work close.

[A/C Guy]

thanks for all the information guys, i found the post about brittany's being one of the quickest learning breeds to be very interesting and one of the reasons i'm intrigued by the breed.

do most people with brittany experience find them quick learners and easy to handle in the field

They are extremely easy to train. They respond to praise like a kid to candy. They are eager to please and once the hunting drive is ignited, they live to hunt. When we pick up a gun case or put on camo, their eyes light up and they bolt to the door and quiver with anticipation.

[3Britts]

thanks for all the information guys, i found the post about brittany's being one of the quickest learning breeds to be very interesting and one of the reasons i'm intrigued by the breed.

do most people with brittany experience find them quick learners and easy to handle in the field

They are extremely easy to train. They respond to praise like a kid to candy. They are eager to please and once the hunting drive is ignited, they live to hunt. When we pick up a gun case or put on camo, their eyes light up and they bolt to the door and quiver with anticipation.

This isn't quite true. They bolt for the door, quivering with anticipaion when you pick up your hunting boots.

[Birddogz]

My Britts are so in tune with when I go hunting that I try to hide all of my hunting clothes/collars/etc. Sometimes I will pack my truck the night before so my dogs don't freak out, it never works. They must smell the equipment/clothes on me, because they can't see me. When I come back into the house, there they are spinning in circles whining with excitement. It is truly uncanny. I have yet to fool them yet.

[AzDoggin]

My Britts are so in tune with when I go hunting that I try to hide all of my hunting clothes/collars/etc. Sometimes I will pack my truck the night before so my dogs don't freak out, it never works. They must smell the equipment/clothes on me, because they can't see me. When I come back into the house, there they are spinning in circles whining with excitement. It is truly uncanny. I have yet to fool them yet.

Hilarious. I've had the same experience. And these are "dumb" animals?" :roll:

[ezzy333]

My Britts are so in tune with when I go hunting that I try to hide all of my hunting clothes/collars/etc. Sometimes I will pack my truck the night before so my dogs don't freak out, it never works. They must smell the equipment/clothes on me, because they can't see me. When I come back into the house, there they are spinning in circles whining with excitement. It is truly uncanny. I have yet to fool them yet.

My experience exactly. Hard to explain how they know.

Ezzy

[Birddogz]

Another thing to consider about Britt's is their economical nature. Pound for pound a Britt eats less than any other pointing breed I have ever been around. My DD eats more than twice what my Britts eat. They also "fit" into smaller kennels etc. If I could put my DDs coat on my Britts, I'd be set. No burrs sticking to them.

[AzDoggin]

Another thing to consider about Britt's is their economical nature. Pound for pound a Britt eats less than any other pointing breed I have ever been around. My DD eats more than twice what my Britts eat. They also "fit" into smaller kennels etc. If I could put my DDs coat on my Britts, I'd be set. No burrs sticking to them.

I used to trim my Britt's feathers - seemed to help keep some of the pickers out. Agree that hair can be like velcro to burrs though. Interesting that the DD's coat doesn't pick them up - I wouldn't have predicted that.

[Birddogz]

My DD has a rather original coat. She looks like a shorthair, as she doesn't have a beard, and has a very tight coat. Her coat is very coarse and about 1 inch long. Water roles off of her and burrs simply don't stick. Cacti are a different story however. Had to take her to the vet the other day as she had a foreign body in her leg. The vet dug out a 1 and 1/2 inch cactus needle. I felt very badly as I had allowed it to be in her for 3 months. I thought it was healing, but it finally got to the point that it just wasn't healing. I felt like a real tool when the vet showed me what was in her.

[AzDoggin]

That "bleep" cactus can get in there and break off, and you don't even know it's there. My Britt became pretty cactus-wise after a while, but we went through several episodes. I started taking a pocket comb with me hunting to flick the cholla off of her. Prior to that, most cactus went from her to me :roll:

I had a human doctor once tell me a story about removing a 14" long sharp palm leaf that had embedded itself along a guy's thigh bone (and had been there for awhile). The dude's leg swelled up like a balloon, and the doc had to get in there with forceps and pull that picker out. Of course, the doc was telling me that story as he was digging around in my hand to pull out a stick that got in there during a fall when I was hunting.

[WindRiverMan]

Interesting that the DD's coat doesn't pick them up - I wouldn't have predicted that.

A good DD coat does not pick up burrs. I have several DD's and none of them pick up burrs in their coat, and all of them have substantial coat. It is very tight and very harsh though. Their beards (which are softer) can get the cockleburrs in them. I am always humored when guys see some of the DD studs pictures on these message boards and comment "that dog has no coat", when in fact, the dog in question usually has an amazing coat. The best DD coats look like a slick from a distance, but are about two inches long up close and tight enough to hurt your hand if you rub it across the grain. Some of the GWP have the longer, softer coats because the show folks can manipulate them better, but imo they are an inferior hunting coat. I think most folks are used to seeing those coats and unless you really hang around the VDD crowd, have probably not seen a lot of good DD coats.

[Anaconda Pintler]

For everyone here that seems to think that Nolan's lines are strictly for foot hunting Britt owners think again, I know the dogs very well and have judged them numerous times throughout the years, and make no mistake about it if he wanted to explore the horseback game a little those lines of dogs he is running would be far wider than most shooting dogs and on the Wide end of the spectrum! The Bull dog he is running now has more run and speed and range than most the dogs I have seen in horseback trials yet, the diference is they are not trained to always be to the front and going away! But make no mistake about it they have plenty of range to make a judge and scout look hard to see them. I have seen quite a few dogs in Horseback stakes with the "Bullet" lines as well so make opinions plainly stated if you do not have first hand knowledge of the lines in question!

[ezzy333]

For everyone here that seems to think that Nolan's lines are strictly for foot hunting Britt owners think again, I know the dogs very well and have judged them numerous times throughout the years, and make no mistake about it if he wanted to explore the horseback game a little those lines of dogs he is running would be far wider than most shooting dogs and on the Wide end of the spectrum! The Bull dog he is running now has more run and speed and range than most the dogs I have seen in horseback trials yet, the diference is they are not trained to always be to the front and going away! But make no mistake about it they have plenty of range to make a judge and scout look hard to see them. I have seen quite a few dogs in Horseback stakes with the "Bullet" lines as well so make opinions plainly stated if you do not have first hand knowledge of the lines in question!

I don't believe anyone is knocking Nolan or his dogs. They have accomplished something no one else has. That being said, there are few horseback trial dogs with them in the closeup pedigree. Could there be more, probably, if someone wants to go that route and do the work. Most brits have the ability to do what we ask in a somewhat competent manner. But Nolan had a line that has satified his needs and desires beautifully and I for one, am glad to see them accomplish what they have and all of that without trying to be another horseback field trial line.

Nolans dogs are premier NSTRA dogs as the records indicate but they are not or were they ever intended to be great horseback trial dogs. And no one needs to apoligize for that in the least.

Ezzy

[AZ Brittany Guy]

I think "Nolan's Lines" are really Delmar & Rick Smith lines and those dogs were mostly All Age. I am sure I have seen some NLB progeny competing in AKC and AF horseback stakes. I think that NLB dogs have been run mostly in NSTRA since that was where all the success and recognition came from.

[Anaconda Pintler]

For everyone here that seems to think that Nolan's lines are strictly for foot hunting Britt owners think again, I know the dogs very well and have judged them numerous times throughout the years, and make no mistake about it if he wanted to explore the horseback game a little those lines of dogs he is running would be far wider than most shooting dogs and on the Wide end of the spectrum! The Bull dog he is running now has more run and speed and range than most the dogs I have seen in horseback trials yet, the diference is they are not trained to always be to the front and going away! But make no mistake about it they have plenty of range to make a judge and scout look hard to see them. I have seen quite a few dogs in Horseback stakes with the "Bullet" lines as well so make opinions plainly stated if you do not have first hand knowledge of the lines in question!

I don't believe anyone is knocking Nolan or his dogs. They have accomplished something no one else has. That being said, there are few horseback trial dogs with them in the closeup pedigree. Could there be more, probably, if someone wants to go that route and do the work. Most brits have the ability to do what we ask in a somewhat competent manner. But Nolan had a line that has satified his needs and desires beautifully and I for one, am glad to see them accomplish what they have and all of that without trying to be another horseback field trial line.

Nolans dogs are premier NSTRA dogs as the records indicate but they are not or were they ever intended to be great horseback trial dogs. And no one needs to apoligize for that in the least.

Ezzy

Ezzy have you ever seen the dogs go?

[jetjockey]

Im going to have to agree with Ezzy. While I have never seen Nolan run his dogs directly, I have a good friend who bread two different dames to Buddy. So I have a pretty good idea what some of his pups can do. None of them that I have seen are horseback dogs. They are great NSTRA dogs, but they don't have the run for Gun Dog or AA trials. As a matter of fact, he just pulled one of his buddy pups from Horseback stakes because he didn't have the range to compete as a Gun Dog in ABC trials. Don't get me wrong, hes a great dog, and so is his half sister, but they aren't horseback dogs.. My friend bread to Buddy twice, and then he bread to an AA Champion. I can tell you for sure, using the same dame, that the pups from the AA dog are much bigger running dogs then the pups from buddy. Again. Im not bashing the Nolan line of dogs. Quite contrary actually. What Nolan has done in the NSTRA circuit has done wonders for the brittany breed IMO. Thats why you see so many dogs with beeline blood in them. I just haven't seen many horseback dogs with beeline blood in them.

[Birddogz]

I was talking with an elderly gentleman, who has been in FTs and tests of all kinds through most of his life. We were talking about "run" in dogs. While it was his opinion that most FT (horseback) dogs were in better shape than 90% of meat dogs, he thought direction was the real difference. He and I both were in agreement that we have had or seen dogs that ran as hard as any dog can, but didn't run forward as much. When "roading" dogs I have seen GSPs, Vizslas, etc. run with FT pointers and be no worse for wear than the FT dogs at the end of the session. Any way, while I think that the majority of FT dogs are in better shape than most "meat" dogs, dogs that are hunted and run 60 plus days a year in the field are often able to run the same speed, but don't do it in a forward direction. More zigs and zags so to speak. I guess I'm curious as to what others think. The same would go for the difference between NSTRA dogs and "Horseback" dogs. I guess the difference isn't m.p.h. as much as direction in my mind.

[kninebirddog]

Well I have seen plenty of Buddys pups that would far out run and out work some of the gun dogs I have seen..maybe one also need to look at the female as I have seen plenty of pups from all age dogs that wouldn't make a decent hunter much less a NSTRA dog or a HB dog

People under estimate NSTRA and some times I have to laugh when someone thinks an AKC or an AF reject will do anything in NSTRA FYI a reject is a reject if a dog isn't getting looked at in HB stakes it more then likely will fail at NSTRA as I have seen that time and time again

I have ever seen dogs which have placed in HB stakes gundog and all age which people have given NSTRA a little more OPEN mind and those dogs took placements in NSTRA

So again I guess pacolet cheyenne sam and scipio spinxs and Bullet proof 2 developed less then adequate dogs because that is Buddys breeding by saying from 2 females those were not HB dogs one also has to look at the female as that is 50 percent of the input..I ahve 2 buddy progeny and had I gone the HB route they would have both been super nice gundogs for sure but then even when you put an all age female and an all age male together you might get lucky if a pup or 2 makes a true all age dog so I guess unless you have an all age dog which maybe less then 10 percent of the dogs running would be a desired dog to hunt behind but we make the biggest deal over one should cull everything else out...NOT ...I am about bird dog which Buddy was about from running in montana on wild birds training about the same as ever other pro trainer trains their dogs who goes there and trains..Buddy was taught to handle off foot...FYI not everyone wants to feed and contend with a hay burner,and before you go jumping off the on wagon I used to train horses for a living.I miss it sometimes but do not miss them

FYI there are people who have started to open their eyes about Buddy and his accomplishments Buddy has sired a couple dogs which placed in the National gundog held in Ionia he is also the grandsire to the dog that won both open and amatuer National Gun dog this last Oct in Ionia show champions and is grand sire to some more show champions

Buddy has a pretty impressive record matter a fact how many brittanys American Field have 150-18-143 by their name which that is Buddys current win record which increases every year the progeny and progeny win from those dogs that are run in AKC and AF trials ...so yes Buddy has 150 recognized American Field WINS with 18 progeny that have a combined total of 143 wins for those that do not know what those numbers mean

there are 6 fc/afc's sired by Nolans last bullet and one extra afc

mostly that is sue to people treating Nolans last bullet like he has cooties because he was run in a different format...a format that judged this dog against any other pointing breed he was braced against he was score on his points retrieves backs obedience and ground cover and slow moving potters will not score and win on a consistant basis.
The closest living dog who was whelped in 99 is a pointer named Stephens Bright Copper he just got his 25th NSTRA championship he just match his sires record of 25x NSTRA championship were Nolans Last bullet again is a 32x NSTRA champion

To attain a NSTRA champion just in the regular full trials max is 3 points for 1st 2 pts for 2nd and 1 pt for 3rd place it takes 18 pts which 9 of the 18 pts have to be first place pts national trials the final 4 placements after 3-4 days of elimination round trials to get to the final 4 you get double pts which Nolan Last bullet has numerous national placements


anyway sorry for the long winded post but I support all venues and I also SUPPORT those BRITTANYS that get out there and prove time and time again how great they can be and learn to play the games their owners want to play That is bottom dollar the sign of a Great dog, Buddy for me is right up there with all the other britts which many are in his back ground also that did what their owners wanted to run their dogs in and they won or are winning

Nolans last Bullet deserves the same respect as Ru-Jems Touch of Bourbon , Redlines Tequila Smoker to many other dogs that are making note and have impressive records when they are or were in the field and what they put in to their progeny.

Funny to think how a little dog causes so much controversy a little dog that went out there and won weekend after weekend after weekend beating all pointing breeds not just his own breed. I wish Nolan had that extra time to be able to put buddy in different venues like Snips and her S/O did with their GSP Fritz as I truly Believe Buddy would have done it but then had he spread it around Buddy wouldn't be a 32x NSTRA champion as Buddys first placement was 10/22/95 his first championship attained was 11/24/1996 he went on to get a total of 580 open NSTRA placements points his last placements was a first place 10/24/2004

http://www.nstra.org/Members/detail.asp?idnum=3996 click on view trial activity


Oh and PS here is a guy that runs All age stakes and brought his dog to run NSTRA http://www.remekvizslas.net/dog.php4?id=4801 here is this dogs nstra http://www.nstra.org/Members/detail.asp?idnum=22143

now this dog was run in gundog stakes now in NSTRA took a bit for him to learn how to mark a downed bird since he was never asked to retrieve before I got him but he sure is a nice forward moving pretty much a consistent bird finder
http://www.remekvizslas.net/dog.php4?id=6270
http://www.nstra.org/Members/detail.asp?idnum=21365

this dog is just starting out in NSTRA
http://www.nstra.org/Members/detail.asp?idnum=21942
oh and whats this http://www.remekvizslas.net/dog.php4?id=51501 sure it wasn't a big stake but ...


My point again is a dog not getting looked at in the"HB" trials, will stand a good chance in NSTRA as it does take run and style and handle to really get anywhere in ANY VENUE run off self hunters to pottering slow ploppy dogs do not get anyone in trials or even the tournament hunts for that fact

[ezzy333]

Arletta,

You are back to defending a dog that needs no defense. I think every post on here has been positive about Buddy and Nolan even though that was not the topic of the post.

What was said is that Buddy has not produced many field trial dogs and the records back that up. That does not make him a bad dog. Many people appreciate that very fact.

The dogs you mentioned in his background are there but way back as they were the dogs that were winning trials back in the 60's. Sorry to say but that is 50 years ago. I am familiar with those dogs as they were running back when I was involved also. Had a CH daughter of Sam. Wasn't really interested in Scipio Spinks as he was one of the ugliest Brits I have ever seen but he did well in the field trial world and did produce a few good dogs Bulletproof 2's main accomplishment is he produced a couple of good pups and you see that line back in some pedigrees. Many of his pups were big though.

I have seen some awfully nice pups that were buddy's offspring or grand kids but not a single one of them have made it in trials. Again, that isn't saying a thing bad about them as I don't feel, at least, that we should be breeding dogs for trials but should be trialing dogs bred for hunting.

I imagine you are also trying to bring up the controversy about Buddy getting into the field trial HOF. I don't understand why that should be an arguing point either since the Field Trial Hall of Fame is the HOF started and supported for the top field trial dogs. Buddy never competed in that venue so naturally he wouldn't qualify for it. Don't think he qualifies for the GSP HOF either. And there are a whole bunch of NFC.s that are not qualified to get into a NSTRA HOF where Buddy should be right at the top. And the wins you are showing are NSTRA wins primarily but were recorded by the AF back when AF supported NSTRA. But those were not AF trial wins even in the wildest of imaginations.

I just am at a loss why you think the very best NSTRA dog has to be defended when he has proven himself both in the field and with what he produces. But that doesn't make him or his offspring great field trial dogs as the records will show. And Nolans breeding record does not need defending either as he has done a great job with his dogs in the venues he has chosen.

Anyone that appreciates a good dog has to appreciate what Buddy has done in every way possible considering where and what he was involved.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

The reason why he did produce as many FC's has nothing to do with Buddy the dog but My point it was because people looked down at the venue he was run and didn't go to him Which That is changing albeit it Late it is changing for the better

as for the dogs WE speak of ..So it is OK for an HB AKC AF person to speak of them in their peds but not for a NSTRA dog...

Just trying to get a clear picture I have seen quite a few that would have done extremely well in trails had they been run there I have seen quite a few dogs from a very well known All age dog that even the average meat hunter found lacking in the field and yes I have had a buddy pup that I ended up selling because she didn't suit my program the dam was a Tequila Joker x Smarteyes Microbean bred female bred to buddy and not a one of the pups in the last litter that I know of stayed with the trialer 2 went NSTRA trialers and one was a gundog AKC person and none of us were impressed with the pups

again all I am saying is many people in the Brittany world when Buddy was in his prime turned their backs on him speaking of him as a lessor dog so No his progeny didn't have a chance to really prove themselves Hard to get titles in a venue when people didn't really give them a real chance...Only reason there are some is when buddy did get older some people actually started to take a chance and do the unpopular and go to buddy ....
a couple of the better ones was renegade cross to buddy and chickamin stuff who knows what else could have been a potential seems walker stuff also crossing well

so again there are plenty of Premier dogs that can be looked to and Those dogs are in MANY of our britts today we try and line breed on and build up on

hard to say there is really one dog but hey people of today still taught Ban dee in their pedigrees Why because Ban dee was a great dog

[ezzy333]

Bandee was the best dog I have ever seen but he was in so many pedigrees because he produced winners in all venues. But his days are over now too since he is too many generations removed. It's getting hard to even find Beans Blaze very close up and he was grandson of Bandee. But from Bandee through Beans Blaze is without a doubt the major producing line the Brits have ever had. Success in a venue is what calls attention to a dog and does get him into the breeding pool quicker.

Buddy had the same results in the venue he excelled at and of course he wasn't sought out by the trial supporters. But I think every female in Kentucky and Tennessee has been bred to him. But I still don't see anybody that is in horseback trials looking for pups out of his lineage. Why? Because that was not his fortay and the pups he has produced have not shown any remarkable ability in the trial world either.

We can all sit back and say we have seen a dog that would be a great trial dog if it had been run and that may be true but we don't know till we do it and we can all say we have seen pups from a great trial dog that didn't make it and that isn't even unusual as we all know since very few pups do excell in trials today. But we also do know there are some bloodlines that seem to be better than others in every venue and those are the ones we see being used the most. It comes back to what we all have told every newcomer on this board, the best way to pick a pup is to get one that has been bred from dogs that perform the way you would like your pup to perform and that is the best chance for success with your puppy. The same thing is true with us old timers and because we do it that way doesn't mean we have discriminated against some dog that hasn't been used in a breeding program to produce our type of dog. Thats just the way most of us do it because it works. That is exactly why you see Nolan's dogs used so much in producing good hunting dogs and good NSTRA dogs becuse that is what he was and what he produced.


Ezzy

[snips]

As someone that has had top NSTRA winning dogs and ran and competed with Nolan and his dogs, I think his dogs would have done nicely in AKC, or other trial formats... When I was running NSTRA I always thought my dogs would do just fine competing in other venues. But until you do it you get no recognition for having dogs that can. Therefore the breeding does not come your way from Field Trialers or field trialers will not look at certain lines for trying in FT's. It was always funny to me how dog people get in these "clicks" and will not cross over and see what could be produced with dogs out of their norm. Nice dogs are nice dogs and generally can and will adjust to whatever venue you throw at them, it is intelligence....

[vzkennels]

I agree 100% Brenda dogs have intellegence & no the difference between HB,walking,hunting etc.It makes me laugh to hear hunters say I don't want any field trial bred lines or hear people say I want a HB wash out to run in NSTRA ect.If you take a well bred dog he has the brains to adjust to what ever venue you want to use him in.They can run HB trials one day hunt another & compete in NSTRA the coming wk end & guide the day after.People give the dogs a little credit they are smarter then you think!!

[Birddogz]

NLB is the most famous Britt of all time. People who know very little about bird dogs always know NLB "Buddy". Was he the best? What's the best? He brought more fame to Britts than any other dog. The reason is because he beat every breed over and over. No dog will touch him for wins. I have a NLB dog that would run 1000 yards if I let him, but he knows he'll get the juice if he runs like that. It was a challenge when he was younger. I don't have a horse. He runs to 300 and that's plenty far for me as a foot hunter. I guess the question is, the premier FT Brittany breeder or NSTRA or hunting companion?

Has anyone mentioned Chiefs Britts/ Dave Jones? He has some nice dogs.

[kninebirddog]

As someone that has had top NSTRA winning dogs and ran and competed with Nolan and his dogs, I think his dogs would have done nicely in AKC, or other trial formats... When I was running NSTRA I always thought my dogs would do just fine competing in other venues. But until you do it you get no recognition for having dogs that can. Therefore the breeding does not come your way from Field Trialers or field trialers will not look at certain lines for trying in FT's. It was always funny to me how dog people get in these "clicks" and will not cross over and see what could be produced with dogs out of their norm. Nice dogs are nice dogs and generally can and will adjust to whatever venue you throw at them, it is intelligence....

B I N G O Thank you Brenda...You did Awesome with fritz...but you have to admit it is hard to spread around from venue to venue as it does take a bit of training you also had some help getting it accomplished but had Buddy been taken from one venue to the other he wouldn't have become a 32x NSTRA champion as those weekends away would have taken away from his wins in NSTRA into becoming the dog that had the most wins

Stephens Bright copper I do believe would have done great in Pointer trials but it has taken him from 3/2001 to 1/2010 to get to 25x nstra champion

now there was a dog that Nolan had sold was a buddy grandson sired by Brave who was bred back to grandma Brave which also a 15 x nstra champion Nolan had put a NSTRA ch and a national NSTRA placement on Bear before selling him to a guy who started to put a dual champion on Bear ....unfortunately Bear met with an untimely death but he did have some field points and show points headed that direction showing that NLB brredings could do it
http://www.remekvizslas.net/dog.php4?id=3859
http://www.nstra.org/Members/detail.asp?idnum=4390

[Grange]

I know of two britts with NLB as the grandsire. Both have placements in AF trials. The male placed a Gun Dog stake and the female has walking shooting dog placements. In those trials she ran as big as any dog out there. There is no lack of range in that female and she is from Beeline Brittanies out of Beeline Bullet's Proof.

[jetjockey]

Heres a question for you guys. Isn't range something that is bread for, and not really trained into a dog? I fully understand that you can bring a big running dog in, but pushing a smaller running dog out is pretty darn impossible isn't it? I posted an example of two different litters of pups bread from the same dame. One was bread to Buddy and one to an AA champion. Most of the pups from the AA dog all run bigger then the pups that came from Buddy. Again, in no way shape or form am I bashing Buddy, like I said before, he has done more for brits then any other brit in history. But, If a person was looking to get an AA dog from a litter, I don't think Buddy would be the first choice of Sires would he? A perfect example is my friends dog that is from Buddy. He didn't make it as a Gun Dog, simply because he didn't range far enough, BUT, I wouldn't call him a drop out either. He is a bird finding machine that moves fast, and is very stylish, he just doesn't range out 200+ yards very often, and thats what hurts him in the AKC and AF trials. If your dog isn't infront, its hard to get the nod from the judges. But he covers a ton of ground very fast and his style of running is more suiteable for NSTRA then AKC. Im not saying one is better then the other, they are just different and ask for different things. Now, if ABC had a true "gun dog" category, then I think he would do just fine. But in the ABC world it seems the "gun dogs" are actually "shooting dogs" because there is no true "shooting dog" category with brits. Heck, you see a lot of "tweener" dogs running in Gun Dog and AA stakes in the brit world. Again, nobody has to defend Buddys record, he has been bread a million times because of the dog he is (its good to be the NSTRA king ). I agree that nice dogs are nice dogs no matter where they are, but there is a reason you don't see a ton of "true" All Age brits. If dogs could just adjust to that style of running, there would be a lot more AA dogs in ABC then gun dogs, and from what Ive seen, that just isn't the case. A lot of dogs run in Gun Dog because they don't have the range to run in AA stakes, and again, thats not a bad thing. My pup is running in Gun Dog stakes because she does't have the range yet to compete with the AA dogs, even though she has shooting dog range. And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

[Birddogz]

Heres a question for you guys. Isn't range something that is bread for, and not really trained into a dog? I fully understand that you can bring a big running dog in, but pushing a smaller running dog out is pretty darn impossible isn't it? I posted an example of two different litters of pups bread from the same dame. One was bread to Buddy and one to an AA champion. Most of the pups from the AA dog all run bigger then the pups that came from Buddy. Again, in no way shape or form am I bashing Buddy, like I said before, he has done more for brits then any other brit in history. But, If a person was looking to get an AA dog from a litter, I don't think Buddy would be the first choice of Sires would he? A perfect example is my friends dog that is from Buddy. He didn't make it as a Gun Dog, simply because he didn't range far enough, BUT, I wouldn't call him a drop out either. He is a bird finding machine that moves fast, and is very stylish, he just doesn't range out 200+ yards very often, and thats what hurts him in the AKC and AF trials. If your dog isn't infront, its hard to get the nod from the judges. But he covers a ton of ground very fast and his style of running is more suiteable for NSTRA then AKC. Im not saying one is better then the other, they are just different and ask for different things. Now, if ABC had a true "gun dog" category, then I think he would do just fine. But in the ABC world it seems the "gun dogs" are actually "shooting dogs" because there is no true "shooting dog" category with brits. Heck, you see a lot of "tweener" dogs running in Gun Dog and AA stakes in the brit world. Again, nobody has to defend Buddys record, he has been bread a million times because of the dog he is (its good to be the NSTRA king ). I agree that nice dogs are nice dogs no matter where they are, but there is a reason you don't see a ton of "true" All Age brits. If dogs could just adjust to that style of running, there would be a lot more AA dogs in ABC then gun dogs, and from what Ive seen, that just isn't the case. A lot of dogs run in Gun Dog because they don't have the range to run in AA stakes, and again, thats not a bad thing. My pup is running in Gun Dog stakes because she does't have the range yet to compete with the AA dogs, even though she has shooting dog range. And I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

I find it funny you say he didn't make a good gundog, because he didn't range far enough. FTs don't even shoot birds, kind of making the gun a moot point. Just kidding, I know what you mean. The thing to understand is that FTing, especially AA dogs have become a completely different animal/sport from hunting. Can you imagine foot hunting with a dog that is comfortable ranging at 1200 yards? In the Sand Hills, I wouldn't be able to see him very easily after he cleared a hill. I have an Astro, so I could find them, but the poor dog would be asleep by the time I arrived. 99% of people who hunt don't hunt like FTs are run, so thank God for different ranging dogs. In my opinion, and I know I am going to get destroyed for saying this, but a NSTRA dog or a European dog is far easier for me to hunt with, when compared with a super high octane horizon dog. I know it is possible to reel in a big running dog, but why fight genetics? Are you going to make Carl Lewis jog the 100? Heck no, let him role. My point is, I agree with you completely, make no excuses for any type of dog, as long as they like to find birds. We need all types of runners, or guys like me would have a hard time finding "meat dogs". Buddy has produced great dogs, no matter the criterion.

[Shadow]

[quote="Birddogz"
Has anyone mentioned Chiefs Britts/ Dave Jones? He has some nice dogs.[/quote]

nice that you mention- I drove down and spent some time with Dave- we were surprised to find I had a look-a-like sister to Chief-
did you know that Dave designed Nollans web site- said I should go watch Nollan at the Nationals- so I taped some of Buddy and Brave's runs- they had run but knew they were to stay inside the boundaries-

[jetjockey]

Birddogz. I completely understand what you are saying. That was something I was concerend with when I got my pup. I grew up with foot hunting meat brits. I was very nervous about getting a pup from a big running AA dog. I have heard all the stories about field trial lines making the dogs hyper and too much for hunting. I did some research and talked to some of the guys on this site about foot hunting over big running trial dogs, and most said it could be done. So, I jumped in head first. And I have been pleasantly suprised at the adaptablility of my pup. She is a great house dog, a great hunting dog, and is doing pretty well in the field trial world. Shes young, but it didn't take her any time to figure out I wasn't chasing her butt when I wasn't on a horse, so she started hunting closer. She has a really nice foot hunting range when im walking. BUT, get on a horse or a Rino and shes a totally different dog. She runs like a shooting dog and at times looks like an AA dog. I grew up hunting, and thats still my top priority, but this field trial thing could get addicting pretty quick. Now that I know a person can easily have a hunting dog and field trial dog, all my future brits will come from field trial lines.... I think anyone would be happy with a dog with Beeline blood in it. It might not come from a big time breeder like other breeds, but the dogs Ive seen with beeline breeding have all been very, very good dogs (and they retrieve!).

[Birddogz]

FT lines produce some FANTASTIC foot hunting dogs. I have 2 of them. What it really boils down to for me is that I screw my dogs up by hunting wild pheasants. I know that may sound like a strange statement , but I swear if I hunted my dogs on Quail, Sharpies, Huns, and chickens I would eliminate 90% of my stress in the field. Pheasants, especially in the late season, demand a dog with tremendous understanding of the birds, and CONTROL. When I'm hunting those son of a guns, I don't want to have to even whisper a word to my dogs. Slam a car door and watch a couple hundred sail out of range. RATS! That is why I need a dog that I can change directions in my path by 90 degrees, not say a word, and that dog is in front of me like a windshield wiper out to no more than 75 yards. This has been more difficult to teach to my FT Britts as they naturally like to range and find birds. Now that they are geriatric, they are perfect. It took them a good 3-4 years, and 3-4 megawatts of power to catch on. Just kidding, but when pheasant hunting, I lost my temper the most. I thought about not pheasant hunting anymore, they run, they are so darn spooky, but I love hunting the darn things! This is why I started checking out the DD and French Britts. They seem to hunt with less independence. I know I'm generalizing, and I'm sure there are DDs and FBs that run huge, but it has been my experience that they are more concerned with where you are than many other breeds, including my FT American Britts. Like I said, I love my Britts, and can't blame them for doing what they are supposed to do. It's me that has the problem, and it always stems from pheasants. I wish I could 'kick" them, but I am just too darn addicted! Is there a pheasants Anonymous?

[kninebirddog]

Dave's Nubbin dog is a Nolans Last Bullet son

[Birddogz]

Dave's Nubbin dog is a Nolans Last Bullet son

Nubbin is about as good looking of a Brit as you will find anywhere.

[Shadow]

Dave's Nubbin dog is a Nolans Last Bullet son

Nubbin is about as good looking of a Brit as you will find anywhere.

you got a picture of him- any information on his placements

[jayhawkj]

Speaking of great Brittanys, what about Shambo's Dark Shadow?

[kninebirddog]

Shambo did a great job in trials...He has some progeny that are doing pretty good on Ed Tillsons string.

Nubbin is on Daves sight he was mostly used as a quail dog in texas which Dave uses quite a bit for Studding in his program I know he did a repeat of Nubbin but I think of the 2 litters Nubbin was the only one he kept..Reason I know of the second breeding of Breez to NLB is I hauled her to Florida where I delivered her to Nolan at the trial down there...Out side of that I am not sure of Dave ever did any field trialing with Nubbin, as at the time I met up with him he was not trialing his dogs.

Some other Nice dogs there in Texas is David Downing string he has quite a few Dual Champion dogs sired by Blueridge Major those are some very nice put together brittanys that can fly..

Terry Maxwell he also has some caliber of dogs that do the all age national trials his kennel produced Maxwells white spirit , Maxwells Blew By You II and Maxwells Gunsmoke

and lastest dog which has broken Shambos record is Ru Jems Touch of Bourbon expect to see a lot of pups from him start to crop up I was looking to him for my young female but timing just wasn't going to work when she came into heat and I refuse to do an AI on a females first time with pups...I want to make sure she will have them and be a good mother before I invest that kind of money on doing an AI

[jetjockey]

IVe seen Chug run in person on the plaines. That dog has a motor on him and Jerry has done wonders as an amateur. But then again, I don't think Jerry would have many problems training pro if he wanted to either. I think Jerry is only the third amateur to win the Purina Dog of the Year. He is a standup guy and Chug is a heck of a dog. To do what he has done is simply amazing.

[Shadow]

thanks kninebirddog-

my male is Shambo's son- I'm quite pleased

[kninebirddog]

I ended up Breeding My Yotie to Chuck -Maxwells Blew by you this go around since Terry is only a couple hours south of me and I really like the pups from the last litter he sired so If Yotie proves to be a good mom which I don't see why she wouldn't I will go through the process for an AI to Chug between Jerry being on the road and time of the year I like to have litters whelped it will be about the only way I will get that done...I have been talking with Jerry since before Chug became Purina Dog of the Year as I have been watching him fly under the radar winning and winning and winning...and a good looker to boot...Wish I could have seen Jerry run chug in the ring with his kilt on

[jetjockey]

I saw the pictures. He looks better on a horse..... In pants!

[kninebirddog]

the pictures were great only If chug could have only given his thoughts on the whole thing.....

[vabrittfan]

Anyone have recommendations for a breeder in the Virginia area and/or one that would have liver pups available?

[ohmymy111]

Hey Arlette, did you end up getting a pup from Tony Bua?

[Razor]

Anyone have recommendations for a breeder in the Virginia area and/or one that would have liver pups available?

Rick Smith- he lives in your state.

[kninebirddog]

Hey Arlette, did you end up getting a pup from Tony Bua?

No ...only way I would add an EB..is if it were a Vern pup that looked like its daddy

[ohmymy111]

You just happen to be in luck, I am expecting a litter in April from Vern and Adrdoise.

Should I reserve one for you?? LOL

[kninebirddog]

You just happen to be in luck, I am expecting a litter in April from Vern and Adrdoise.

Should I reserve one for you?? LOL

You are Cruel...

How is the last litter doing from those two?

[Karen]

Anyone have recommendations for a breeder in the Virginia area and/or one that would have liver pups available?

Try Ralph & Judy Kiracofe (www.hitbrits.com). NGDC FC/AFC Hit's For Pete's Sake is a really nice liver dog that has been used for stud quite a bit recently and seems to be producing well. You'd also be hard pressed to find a liver Brittany with more style than Petey (BTW, he just won the OGD at Buckey's trial, his sister won the OLGD, his half sister won the AGD there and a daughter was 3rd in the AGD).