English setter

[ES Fan]

I am new to the forum and gun dogs for that matter but have hunted whitetails and small game for over 25 years now. My aim is to hunt grouse and pheasant in New England with my father. After doing some reading and watching a few video’s on which breed of dog is best for this type of hunting, I have chosen the English setter. Partly because of breed being a very good grouse hunter, partly because they make excellent house dogs… but also because they are absolutely beautiful in action (plus the wife likes them too).

My question to the forum is what breeder’s I should be looking at in the Northeast for a quality hunting dog that will “work close” and make for a good well mannered house dog for the off-season. The reason I add this is, my father is now getting a little older and a more methodical setter that works close would be perfect for us. I have not made a decision on a pup or started dog, but leaning towards one that is started.

I have read some really great reviews about DeCoverly Kennels and was hoping to get some additional feedback with a few more people that have first hand knowledge of the dogs. Any other breeder recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[PntrRookie]

ES welcome to the forum! Nice breed of choice. I believe you will not regret it. Check out the Cover Dog site...tons of setter breeders there...http://members4.boardhost.com/coverdogforsale/ There are some great kennel and breeders that frequent that site.

[Mountaineer]

While I prefer FT coverdog-type setters, I expect you will be far happier with less amperage as a first setter.
The Coverdog BB is also not the place place to look, IMO.
Having attended a picnic at George Tracy's place with a passel of FTers, I know that FTers will always have a handfull of dogs "perfect" for the hunter ...be careful!!!

Setters, to me, fall into three broad catagories: Field, Llewellin and Dual.
While any can be fine house dogs...Duals then Llews will come closest, easiest as a general rule.

Neither should you concentrate in the NE alone.
Pinecoble, Setter Hills, Old Hemlock....there are many of the so-called Dual-type setters that will be great dogs for you.
Considering the DeCoverly fiasco of late, you might want to walk softly there and check very closely if they make the list.
Watch out for the "Gentleman's shooting dog" hype and you will find a fine companion.

Ask on http://www.uplandjournal.com for a wider info selection on which setter might be a better match for you.

[Grange]

Try the website below. There are a lot of english setter breeders to choose from.

http://trialdog.blogspot.com/

[GANGGREEN]

In my opinion, Mountaineer gave you some very good advice. I'm also a big fan of field bred (ie. coverdog type) setters but what you've described is NOT a coverdog or trial bred setter and be careful where you go to look for litters. Moutaineer has given you several good options of kennels that provide the closer hunting, "calmer" type setters. I would add one thing however. If you're able, take the time and do your homework. By that I'm suggesting that you hunt with several different types of English Setters, ie. a Ryman type, a Llew, a coverdog or trial bred setter, etc.. Don't rush out, hunt with one buddy's setter and decide then and there that you need a dog out of the same breeding as his. It's so easy, particularly for someone new to the sport, to hunt with one decent pointing dog and be so blown away that you're ready to pull the trigger immediately.

Different strokes for different folks and you won't know exactly what appeals to you until you've seen several different types of setters. As many people have probably posted before, there can be more difference between strains of setters than there are typically between different breeds of dogs. If they didn't look somewhat similar in appearance, you'd never know that my coverdogs are of the same breed as most Ryman type dogs.

Good luck, setters are a very good choice for anyone that wants a stylish grouse and woodcock dog.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

ES Fan,
Gangreen is giving you good advise, there are different kinds of ES dogs from different lines. Investigate the different lines, and decide which dog would best fit into your family as both a hunting companion and a home companion. I own or have owned different dogs from most of the different lines. In fact I own and hunt behind the three different major Setter dog breeds. Make sure you understand what you are purchasing, before you purchase, look for written health and hunting guarantees on the animal you want to purchase, investigate weather the breed line has been Penn-Hip or OFA tested for generations to help eliminate HD, do they Bare (Deaf) test also, to eliminate the deafness gene. Lots of things today to understand when purchasing a good Setter dog.
RGD/Dave

[ES Fan]

Thank you for all the feedback and really appreciate the list of breeders you suggested. I have contacted a few and will be setting up some time to see their dogs. Unfortunately the breeder that is closest to me Warren from Pinecoble English Setters wife is sick and is not sure if he will be putting out a litter in the near future. He did however recommend I investigate October Setters and Heartland Setters.

Through more investigation I came across an organization called Setters Unlimited which says it is a “non-profit co-op created to assist individuals interested in English Setters find, research, and follow the top English setter breeders in the US”. Is anyone familiar with the site and could offer any feedback.

If it were just me hunting the trial bred or cover dog would be a great choice; however I just don’t believe my father could keep up. It is one of those little compromises I will have to make.

Thanks again

[birddog1968]

You might speak with Neil at Stockley kennels.

Good honest guy with some nice dogs in Virginia.

[Grange]

Thank you for all the feedback and really appreciate the list of breeders you suggested. I have contacted a few and will be setting up some time to see their dogs. Unfortunately the breeder that is closest to me Warren from Pinecoble English Setters wife is sick and is not sure if he will be putting out a litter in the near future. He did however recommend I investigate October Setters and Heartland Setters.

Through more investigation I came across an organization called Setters Unlimited which says it is a “non-profit co-op created to assist individuals interested in English Setters find, research, and follow the top English setter breeders in the US”. Is anyone familiar with the site and could offer any feedback.

If it were just me hunting the trial bred or cover dog would be a great choice; however I just don’t believe my father could keep up. It is one of those little compromises I will have to make.

Thanks again

I got my english setter from TerHaar Kennels, which is part of Setters Unlimited last year. I am pleased with her so far and we'll be in some cover dog trials this spring to see how she compares to other cover dogs. I shot a lot of grouse off her points in her first season. I will say that she is very fancy while hunting however she does cover ground and will run at the edge of bell range at times.

I visited Berg Bros before I bought my pup from TerHaar Kennels. In fact it was Berg Bros that recommended I check with TerHaar after they listened to what I was looking for in a dog. Berg Bros has, from what I can tell, a very nice operation. They have some nice kennel runs and large (about 55 acres) fenced in area with liberated quail to train their dogs. I sent my pup to them for their puppy program. They had her for three weeks and the day I got her back she pointed and held a pheasant until flush. It was quite a site to see a 5 month old pup do that.

I wouldn't hesitate to contact either Berg Bros or TerHaar Kennels and probably any of the others. Be sure to discuss what type of dog your looking for because they seem to focus on more trial bred setters. Good luck.

[Triggernosis]

....
Considering the DeCoverly fiasco of late, you might want to walk softly there and check very closely if they make the list.
Watch out for the "Gentleman's shooting dog" hype and you will find a fine companion.

I'm new to this forum and am considering an English Setter as my next dog. Can you explain this "DeCoverly fiasco" to me please?
Also, what do you mean about the "gentleman's shooting dog" hype?

Please forgive my ignorance - I'm new to this forum and just the owner of an aging English Lab (Fortune's "Supernova" - aka "Nova").

[shags]

http://www.decoverlykennels.com/blog/20 ... ks-county/

The 'gentlemans hunting dog' hype likely means paying top dollar for a dog of that description, regardless of its quality.

[Triggernosis]

Thanks, Shags.

$250,000 for updated kennels at DeCoverly? Daggone, how many dogs do they have?

[ckfowler]

My setter is second generation removed from Long Gone Kennel and she has done great as a family dog as well as in the field. They may have some insight into local breedings or specifci started dogs that would be your speed. I have a friend that has Llewellins down here I would be proud to own but SW Ohio is not New England.

[solon]

In my admittedly limited experience with setters, I find the field bred setters have more hunt, speed, point, style, and advance at earlier ages than the other types. The FT setters can have a lot of horsepower, but the handler does not chase the dog. The dog is trained to handle, that is hunt with its handler. You want to get a dog from a line that has a good level of biddability. I have a Long Gone pup here that is one year old, and she has trial potential. Nevertheless, she handles, although that needs a bit of encouragement from time to time. I also have a Berg Bros setter that was from a breeding that was supposed to produce closer ranging dogs. This one is one of the exceptions to that trait out of over 50 pups, because she can run really big. With a started dog, you could get this range issue to be less of a gamble.

For litters that come from Long Gone studs, see this web site: http://www.longgonesetters.com/news.php

If you really want to get a slower, more close ranging, nice companion dog that looks good too, consider a Small Munsterlander.



The SM is a more expensive pup than a well bred FT setter, but less than a DeCoverly, and they will retrieve ducks too.

Solon

[bwjohn]

i agree with you Setters are beautiful dogs in motion, it is hard to beat the style of a good ES.

Several of the post have given good recommendations and some questions you need to answer before getting much farther in your search.

I will recap:
1. do not limit your search to the NE area, most breeders are more than happy to ship or arrange a meeting at suitable place for both. There are also some places that transport dogs from east to west or vice versa, north south as well.

2. getting on forums such as this will be a big help. I do believe that the Upland Journal will be an invaluable resource to you. You could possible go out on some training sessions with some guys this time of year and see there dogs work. Most people on that site are very friendly and willing to let you tag along. It is a great place to network.

3. someone mentioned do not be in a rush to get the first breeding you find, very important. Hopefully you will have this dog for 15 yeas, the initial investment in the pup will not be near as much as you spend over the lifetime of the dog. So, do a lot of research and find the right place for you. By now you are probably not going to be hunting the dog until the '11 season, anyway so do not be in a big hurry.

The one that I would say, is do not be so set on a breed yet. Try to go out and see some dogs work. I think all of the dogs will make a good house dog. Gordon's are beautiful dogs as well. NAVDHA training days are good and different kinds of trials are good places to see several breeds and dogs run and work.

If you are new to dogs, you may really want to look for a real biddable dog and breeder that is willing to help.

Good luck, I am on my first bird dog and loving it, it is a great time!

brandon

[buckmaster]

Yes they are versatile, but be careful with both large and small munsterlanders...more so large munsterlanders. Be very careful when looking at lines...particularly if they are from Minnesota and Wisconsin, and what lines were brought there from Europe. Some lines to the upper midwest were from breeding stock that used more for hunting and retreiving fur...than birds....so they hunt dead like no dog you have seen...however...steading them to point can be a chore...and they do produce a lot of overly aggressive males....I used to think even after working at shelters that there was no such thing as a "bad" dog, just bad owners and training....munsterlanders helped change that opinion. Do your due diligence...otherwise they are a crapshoot...you can get a wonderful versatile bird dog and lap dog...or one better served catching wild hogs. I am sadly speaking from personal experience...and some time after my last munsterlander...they ran an article in Gundog called "The Land Shark" which outlined my negative experiences perfectly. Now that I have 4 young children in the house, we are a Setter family again.