Coyote Warning

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A/C Guy
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Coyote Warning

Post by A/C Guy » Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:29 pm

On another shooting forum, one of the members just posted his friend lost 3 puppies yesterday to coyotes. He took the puppies in the backyard at about 5 pm for a little outside play time and let them go potty. Three coyotes jumped his 6' block wall and snatched 3 puppies and jumped back over before he could say or do anything.
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Sharon
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Sharon » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:14 pm

I believe it. Terrible problem here in Ontario too. I've had to abandon a great training ground due to the risk of coyotes taken my small setter. I wonder how many fawns will be taken this spring.

This one was trying to get into a house.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149 ... use007.jpg

I wish these guys would come from New Brunswick to Ontario.

This picture is not for everyone. Warning.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149 ... NB1122.png

Not much value in pelts due to mange.
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ecater2218
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ecater2218 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:27 pm

Good heavens!! We do not see too many here.

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Richard *UT*
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Richard *UT* » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:02 pm

There is a dog breed that not alot of people have heard of called the Deutscher Wachtelhund that is a great Goose/Duck tracking dog, but they also can and do kill coyotes. They will go into the den, all you hear is the sound of all heck breaking loose and then out comes your dog with a dead yote. There is a guy in Montana and I am sure he can put you in touch with others a little closer that can take care of the coyotes for you.

Image

Image

Try this website
http://www.deutscherwachtelhund.org/

These dogs are something to see.
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TAK
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by TAK » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:29 pm

Sharon wrote:I believe it. Terrible problem here in Ontario too. I've had to abandon a great training ground due to the risk of coyotes taken my small setter. I wonder how many fawns will be taken this spring.

This one was trying to get into a house.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149 ... use007.jpg

I wish these guys would come from New Brunswick to Ontario.

This picture is not for everyone. Warning.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r149 ... NB1122.png

Not much value in pelts due to mange.
Them pictures brought tears of Joy to me! And Envy! Wow now that would be some nice huntin!!!!

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A/C Guy
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by A/C Guy » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:57 pm

Coyote season is year round here, but this was within city limits. The coyotes have become very brazen since they can't be hunted in the populated areas.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:42 pm

I've never worried about the yotes as th only ones I have seen when I had the dogs were in full flight after the Brits jumped them. I really find it hard to believe that they jumped a 6 ft wall that they couldn't see or smell through. But I do agree they are getting to be a problem and a few are hunting together and that can be a problem for the deer.

A friend shot 125 last winter here on flat cultivated land. Don't know how many you could have in some rougher territory. We see a few over at the farm but I haven't seen any evidense that they are getting any healthy deer.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddog3412 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:14 pm

Not sure if I buy the story either, at least the way it is told. Ive probably averaged killing 6 a year for the last 20 years.

Jumping a 6 foot block fence, maybe but ive chased them down against a 4 foot woven wire fence and they could not get over that.

I took 2 adult dogs for a jog last May, I was riding my 4 wheeler letting them run ahead, the next thing I knew a coyote was running along with us. I changed direction crossed a creek and the coyote stayed with us. I finally yelled at the dogs went back toward the house. the coyote stayed out about 200 yards, I kenneled the dogs and grabbed a shotgun. He let me get within about 25 yards. He took off though when I dropped the barrel, must not of been his first time being shot at, but I got him.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddogz » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:33 pm

Coyotes in the North East are actually interbred with wolves. They have DNA tested them. They hunt in packs and eat far more deer than coyotes in the west. There are actually differences in their skulls. I don't know where this attack took place, but I just watched a show on the difference between eastern and mid-western coyotes.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddog3412 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:20 am

Birddogz wrote:Coyotes in the North East are actually interbred with wolves. They have DNA tested them. They hunt in packs and eat far more deer than coyotes in the west. There are actually differences in their skulls. I don't know where this attack took place, but I just watched a show on the difference between eastern and mid-western coyotes.
That may very well be true, but the start of the thread did not say anything about Hybrid animals.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:54 am

Birddogz wrote:Coyotes in the North East are actually interbred with wolves. They have DNA tested them. They hunt in packs and eat far more deer than coyotes in the west. There are actually differences in their skulls. I don't know where this attack took place, but I just watched a show on the difference between eastern and mid-western coyotes.

I read about this last week and that is still a theory as they try to explain why some are bigger and have a reddish color. Think they will find that most of that type may be crossed some where with a dog but when you stop to really think about it where are these wolves here in the Midwest. We haven't had a gray wolf let alone a red wolf population for a hundred years.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by AzDoggin » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:57 am

A/C Guy wrote:Coyote season is year round here, but this was within city limits. The coyotes have become very brazen since they can't be hunted in the populated areas.
Need to break out that bow, A/C Guy! Put out some meat, and use your kitchen window as a stand!!

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddogz » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:22 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Birddogz wrote:Coyotes in the North East are actually interbred with wolves. They have DNA tested them. They hunt in packs and eat far more deer than coyotes in the west. There are actually differences in their skulls. I don't know where this attack took place, but I just watched a show on the difference between eastern and mid-western coyotes.

I read about this last week and that is still a theory as they try to explain why some are bigger and have a reddish color. Think they will find that most of that type may be crossed some where with a dog but when you stop to really think about it where are these wolves here in the Midwest. We haven't had a gray wolf let alone a red wolf population for a hundred years.

Ezzy
From the show that I watched they said that the interbreeding was proven by DNA. I can only tell you what I heard.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by seadog » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:55 am

As Birddogz said , PROVED by DNA . I know of yotes ( if thats what you want to call them ) that pull the scales down to 80 lbs . As Sharon said , it's a risk every time you run your dog . What scares me the most is the decoy yote / wolf that runs your dog back to the pack .

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:05 am

Some googling found

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32976657/ns ... e-science/

According to the article, there are some "coy wolves" in western NY and PA. The mixed breed apparently originated further north and have gradually spread in.

I suggest that everyone with ain interest read the article very carefully. Don't just read what you want to in order to support an already-established opinion.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by JKP » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:34 am

Several Years ago I visited Gene Malineaux who owns bid acreage north of Binghamton NY. He opened his freezer and there were three coyote on top.....64, 56, and 54 lbs. These dogs in the east are not your average "ppoch" out on the prairie.

For the last three years, I have carried a drilling when bird hunting....20 gauge barrels over 5.6 x 52R (the old 22 Savage Hi Power). I have killed 3 Coyote that the dogs have forced out of the cover...they will often run 100 yds or so, turn and look back...for 3 of them that was a mistake.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:46 am

Another article apparently discussing the same research.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2 ... 23-02.html

I've been wanting to do some coyote hunting. Sounds like great fun.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 am

Greg Jennings wrote:Some googling found

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32976657/ns ... e-science/

According to the article, there are some "coy wolves" in western NY and PA. The mixed breed apparently originated further north and have gradually spread in.

I suggest that everyone with ain interest read the article very carefully. Don't just read what you want to in order to support an already-established opinion.

Greg J.

The article I read said that the some that was mentioned in this article was actually stated as a few of the largest which I think is what this is saying also. And they did say that they think they have moved in from the north. But the facts as far as we know still says there are coydogs through out the midwest and east and it only makes sense that they are more prevalent than the few wolve crosses. But it will be interesting to see where it goes from here. The other thing it made mention of is the effect of human breeding and the global warming that has taken place on the wolf. That might be a clue too that much of this article is someones opinion rather than fact. That is what I saw when I tried to read it very carefully. Guess I didn't have an opinion I needed to support but I do often question new theories when there is other info in the article that we already know is wrong. I have learned over the years that very often we have new findings that contradict what we have been told in the past and then later find it just wasn't true. How many of us have heard about the nitites in the bacon that was going to kill us, the caffene in the coffee that was really bad, the polar bears that are all but gone, the oil pipeline that was going to kill the cariboo, and of course the global warming that was going to cause the whole world to flood. And within a few years we find out little if any of it was right.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:16 am

I think the "human breeding" was talking about breeding for dark coats in dogs which have then interbred with wolves.

The "some of the largest" was one of the things I looked at too. Some of the largest being coy wolves suggest some of the largest were pure coyotes.

But, it seems a done deal that interbreeding did occur. Questions of how prevalent the hybrids are much less hybridization might be affecting their chosen prey, etc. seems to be a topic for further study.

Me? I'm just going to shoot 'em. Looks like a lot of fun.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by buckmaster » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:53 am

How about this meat pole if you don't think are a bunch of coyotes as big as wolves around the northeast. These were shot in coastal maine by Peter Howland who also happens to be a bear/bird guide...but loves to shoot yotes. He stacks them up like that pretty frequently.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:43 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:I think the "human breeding" was talking about breeding for dark coats in dogs which have then interbred with wolves.

The "some of the largest" was one of the things I looked at too. Some of the largest being coy wolves suggest some of the largest were pure coyotes.

But, it seems a done deal that interbreeding did occur. Questions of how prevalent the hybrids are much less hybridization might be affecting their chosen prey, etc. seems to be a topic for further study.

Me? I'm just going to shoot 'em. Looks like a lot of fun.
It sure is and we need to do a lot more of it.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by wayne » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:57 pm

coyotes are shot on site in western oklahoma even in my town we shot them.. if the police come by and ask just say did not hear anything.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:59 pm

buckmaster wrote:How about this meat pole if you don't think are a bunch of coyotes as big as wolves around the northeast. These were shot in coastal maine by Peter Howland who also happens to be a bear/bird guide...but loves to shoot yotes. He stacks them up like that pretty frequently.
Coyotes are a growing problem in Ohio, especially this time of year as regards livestock.
Jump quite a few in Iowa and Kansas....makes me sure that there are birds around.
Bird dog botherings are less real than any perceived threat here though.
I would hope and pray for the coyotes to decimate the Ohio deer population but they don't seem to be doing it. :(
I've shot a few coyotes and will again but I find that show of death or bragging picture offensive and see little point in it.
But, each to his own need.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:35 pm

I live in Ithaca NY, about 35 miles form Binghamton (mentioned in a previous post). Anyway, I have seen coyotes as small as 25# and as big as a large German Shepherd. I have a pack that runs the woods behind my house. My neighbor has a feral cat colony which feeds them in the summer I think. Good use for feral cats. They are all over the place here and luckily a lot of people hunt them.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by gdog » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:29 pm

Most of ours are not as big a the NE variety....but we can get some bruisers. I've got a residential spot/park that I run my dog at which holds a bunch of quail. Last few months the coyotes have moved in and show up almost every time I have my dog out. Started packing my .45 in case one gets too close.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Sharon » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:47 pm

" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Odin » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:23 pm

Here's another one from Canada. Female hiker killed by coyotes.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/st ... -died.html
Last edited by Odin on Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Buckeye_V » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:25 am

I live outside of New Concord, OH in eastern Ohio (about 20 mins from Tri-Valley). I shot a 60lb yote during deer season without remorse. That thing would have taken my dog in a heartbeat and looked more wolk-like than a yote. I know I have a pack around here because I have found several deer kills with FUR ONLY. They are hear and if anyone wants to come pop a few, then I say have at it.....

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by JKP » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:43 pm

That thing would have taken my dog in a heartbeat and looked more wolk-like than a yote.
I have heard dog owners brag of their dog's "wrastlin" with coyotes....I don't care how big and tough your DD, Lab, GSP, etc is...a big Yote is gonna exact a price and if there's another in the area, you'd better have a bag to take your dog home in. I have seen big hounds (70-100lbs) that are regularly used for coursing coyote and the muzzle and heads of these dogs are covered in scars...and they are hunted in 2's and 3's on yotes. Don't mess with them....not worth it.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ckirsch » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:05 pm

I have to admit that I struggle a bit with the story of the Dutch dogs being able to kill coyotes. They just didn't look big enough to get the job done. A big South Dakota yote is probably only 40 pounds, but they'll put a serious beat-down on most dogs. As JKP noted, the greyhound guys typically run four or more dogs at a time, and those are larger dogs than most bird dogs. Most of them look pretty rough after a season or two of running coyotes.

The other issue to consider is the fact that coyotes are so often infected with mange, and my understanding is that it can be easily transmitted to a dog. Even if your dog wins a go with a mangy yote, you'll have a handsome vet bill of some type to deal with.

I live on the edge of town, but inside the city limits. We have a pack living in my neighborhood, which borders some large wooded draws. We had one in our front yard yesterday, and a big pack howling a hundred yards or so from my back door the other morning. My pointer got jumped by a couple a week ago, and it might not have gone too well had I not come over the hill when I did. I had one try to snatch a young Weim pup from me a few years ago, following me for a quarter-mile or so, even after I threw rocks and yelled at it. I don't have any doubt that they would take dog pups if the opportunity presented itself, and I sometimes wonder if it is safe to have my young kids playing in the back yard.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by A/C Guy » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:51 pm

ckirsch wrote:... I had one try to snatch a young Weim pup from me a few years ago, following me for a quarter-mile or so, even after I threw rocks and yelled at it. I don't have any doubt that they would take dog pups if the opportunity presented itself, and I sometimes wonder if it is safe to have my young kids playing in the back yard.
A hungry coyote will take a 7 or 8 year old kid. We had a group of 5 kids locally at a playground/ park. The oldest was 11 and the rest were ages 7 to 9. A single coyote grabbed the youngest boy and the rest of the kids just stood there stunned. Then the 11 year old girl started kicking the coyote and they all started yelling . The coyote left the kid, but there is no doubt the coyote would have taken the 7 year old had the girl not started kicking it.
ezzy333 wrote: I really find it hard to believe that they jumped a 6 ft wall that they couldn't see or smell through.
Ezzy
You've never had a Britt jump a 6 foot wall?
My female does and I know others that can and do. It drives their owners crazy because the dogs keep escaping from the yard. Coyotes will jump a wall if they hear potential prey, they don't need to smell it. A few puppies romping in a yard make quite a bit of noise.

BTW, Coyotes out here average the same size as a German Shepherd.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Doodle » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:31 am

It is truly difficult to make a serious impact on coyote populations. We have had them on decks and at homes in our area. The best defense is to hook up with your local Houndsmen. I maintain memeberships with several of their groups. See if you can get premission to hunt coyotes on lands near you and see if they will come in and hunt. Some of your neighbors may not understand the danger. We had an older lady say no until she watched them snatch her poodle as she stood in the backyard helpless. She called immediately after that and said if you need to cross or hunt my property you have my blessing.

If you are "real good" they may even treat you to a hound hunt. For people who enjoy working dogs this can be a great experience.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by reba » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:44 am

A good full size dog can scale a 6 foot wall. They don't jump or leap over they sort of run up and over it. So it would not be a problem for a coyote.

I've seen coyotes jump or leap over stock fence with barbed wire top without touching and part of the fence.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by asc » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:29 pm

Our walkers run a few every deer season. They put on quite a race. We kill them as we see them. :D
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ezzy333 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:39 pm

We used to run them with hounds but never saw one go over a fence. They are great at going under or through though. We always had a shepard for the kill dog as the greyhounds just aren't good fighters but they would run thge yote past the shepard and it normally wasn't more than a few seconds fight. Don't remember the shepard even getting marked up much. But with the fences and smaller farms here in the eastern mid-west it just doesn't work as well. But we did get rid of a bunch of yotes.

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It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddogz » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:44 pm

Guys in SD and NE use Staghounds. They crush Coyotes! When training them to be tough, they put a badger in a barrel. The dog has to go face to face with a Badger in order to get it out. The ones that do it are the ones they use.
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by gunner » Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:21 pm

Here's a couple of recent pictures I took of some big Indiana coyotes.

Image

Image

Tim Fusner of Evansville, IN nearly lost his powerful 65 lb all-age pointer ( Region 4, Region 17 AFTCA Champion) to coyotes in a workout. Only Tim being on a good horse and getting to the dog quickly saved it's life. I saw the dog about a month later and it still looked as if it had gone through a meat grinder.

I was judging a field trial stake at Middle Fork Reservoir, IL a couple of years ago late in the afternoon when the dog I was watching made a nice cast to an tree edge, a couple of coyotes came out of the shadows of the woods to attack the dog. Only the handler getting between the dog and the yotes staved off the attack.

Well known bird dog man Gordon Mundy of Bedford IN lost some hounds, bird dogs and even their pet dog off their porch to a pack of coyotes. Gordon had to call in a professional trapper to stop the predation.

I keep an eye out for yotes any time I release a dog. I like to watch 'em but I don't trust them around my dogs.

Years ago we hunted them with sight hounds and Airedales. Very efficient team.

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Birddogz » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:02 pm

My dog couldn't do it, but I have a friend who has a 76 lb. DD that has killed 2 Coyotes in Wisconsin. He is a bad azz dog. He has also hunted hogs in TX with him.
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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ACooper
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by ACooper » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:We used to run them with hounds but never saw one go over a fence. They are great at going under or through though. We always had a shepard for the kill dog as the greyhounds just aren't good fighters but they would run thge yote past the shepard and it normally wasn't more than a few seconds fight. Don't remember the shepard even getting marked up much. But with the fences and smaller farms here in the eastern mid-west it just doesn't work as well. But we did get rid of a bunch of yotes.

Ezzy

I know a bunch of guys running greyhounds that would take offense to that! :D But most I know that run coyotes used stags and they kill'em dead.

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Crystal kennels
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Crystal kennels » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:15 pm

We live in the Finger Lakes and see quite a few that are VERY large and dark. My husband saw one that was almost black and every bit as big as his German Shepherd. We were also told a few years ago that DEC released some wolves in this area....do not know if its true. We have a huge problem with the coyotes/wolf mixes....they are large and take alot of fawns each year. We hear the howling Winter, Summer, Fall and Spring. They are not nervous of humans either...............

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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Doodle » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:46 pm

Mmmmm....my personal favorite for quick coyote dispatch...the curly haired, bouncing, sweet, AIREDALE. A keen working dog.

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Drifter Saver
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Re: Coyote Warning

Post by Drifter Saver » Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:46 am

They are like flies in Michigan as well. My largest GSP (about 65 pounds) has gone toe to toe with a few (not by my choice). One on one, most dogs can handle themselves against them (mine usually gets the best of the yote), but don't let them chase them because they are setting them up to either run into more yotes or just plain wear them out to turn on them. The yotes in Iowa, Kansas and such don't quite compare in size to our locals. I used to also spend a lot of time hunting (by call) yotes. Regarding the midwest and wolves, I had a very close encounter (30 yards) with what I will stand on my grave saying was a wolf while hunting in central Iowa. We have them in Michigan so I certainly know what they look like. This thing made my 50 pound pointer look like a pup. I let off 4 rounds of #5 high-brass straight at his face. He finally made a little bit of noise, turned, jumped the creek and loped up the field out of distance. I told the game officer during that trip what had happened...he said he couldn't confirm it, but they have had ongoing calls from what might have been traveling animals coming down from MN.
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