some habitat questions

[jimbo&rooster]

well after some conversation with my father in law he has given me about 6 acres that used to be farmed to turn into habitat for birds. the particular area contains a covey of birds from time to time and is a small area that is grown up in trash weeds. it is surrounded completely with tree rows there is a pond and several areas of honey suckle. i intend to disc sections of this ground into strips and plant a mixture of food crops such as sourgum, millet and probly some sunflowers. my question is what type of cover should i be looking into planting? i was thinking of some tall grasses? im not necessarily looking to hunt the area but mostly to help to build the population of birds in the area for training purposes. if it works out the 6 acres could grow significantly over the next couple of years.
jim

[birdogg42]

Jim, Quail need grass clumps for nesting, diverse weedy areas for brood rearing, and woody cover for thermal protection/ predator escape and abundant patches of bare ground. Just be sure the grass isnt too thick on the bottom. It needs to look thick on top but open underneath. Your fence rows and that patch of honeysuckle should be the same way. You may need to create some down tree structures of maybe thin out some of the honeysuckle.

Mike

[ezzy333]

A good crop of weeds is usually pretty good cover for them if near the honeysuckle. and then plant a native warm weather grass in the field such as blue stem or switch grass. Problem you might have is it takes three or four years to get a good stand of those grasses.

Ezzy

[tommyboy72]

Hate to mention this but quail love ragweed. They like the seeds and the cover. They also like thistle. Once you plant ragweed though it will spread and you can't get rid of it. Sunflowers would work well as well as anything that grasshoppers will eat. Young immature quail eat grasshoppers and bugs but especially grasshoppers more than they eat seeds or plants. If you get grasshoppers during the spring and early summer for the hatchlings you will build your covey size through shear survivability of the young.

[jimbo&rooster]

thanks for the responses. the area in question has grown over in about chest high weeds which do provide good runways at ground level but they just dont seem to make much canopy. part of my reason for using sourgum is because it does provide a good bit of cover and also a good food source. as far as the ragweed goes Ill have to look into it because I can leave myself a fair buffer zone before It will cause any problems for the farmer. I wondered about splitting the piece into sectios and putting a part of it into cover a part of it into food crops, leave part of it as is and then, plant some sort of grasses as a transition area between the sections like a covered road..... like I say the area tends to hold birds but this last year do to a wet spring almost 60% of my inlaws place went unplanted and there was no food crops to keep the birds around. so im trying to give them a bit of a safe zone. I have also been concentrating on predator control this fall and spring.
jim

[fishvik]

If possible instead of dividing your area into just one or two large blocks that provide either cover, food or nesting habitat, try breaking it up into smaller sections of each. This is known as habitat juxtaposition and it provides a maximum of edge effect which is the key to good habitat management. Just make sure that none of your habitat sections are too small, 1/8 to 1/4 acre is good and maximize as much border with other habitat types as possible. Good Luck and what a great opportunity.

[tommyboy72]

I was watching a hunting show about pheasant habitat and food plots the other day and the land owner had planted milo rather than sorghum because in the winter when the stalk breaks over it breaks over in the middle of the stalk rather than the bottom so not only was the seed at the optimal height(on the ground) for the birds but it also offered overhead canopy cover from predators as well as left lanes for the birds to run through. It should work for quail I would think. Out here where I live sand plum bushes work excellent if you want to get some of those and plant them. They offer fantastic cover from avian predators and still leave enough room underneath for birds to move around. When it rains out here they fruit out with some delicious little plums as well. I am sure if they grow and thrive out here they will definitely grow where you live. Also for cover you can do like we did out here and just construct some big piles of old blow down dead trees. We left lanes underneath by putting big logs on the bottom of the pile and criss crossed the big logs with smaller logs and branches. We did that on one of my buddy's land out here and made a series of them from their food supply to his water tanks in his cattle pen that way they never had to run too far over flat barren ground without having overhead protection. Sorry I am babbling on but I used to be chairman of our local QU chapter here and we always had grand ideas but no one would let us do any work around here. You might contact QU and ask for advice. I would not advise joining a chapter because in my opinion they only care about making money off of banquets but they are always looking for projects like you are considering and are willing to do work for free. They can also get you the seed to plant your food plots at discount rates.

[jimbo&rooster]

well i was out running my dogs today and ran into my father in law and we had a chance to kind of roll around some of my ideas and he seemed like he liked what i had in mind and may very well let me expand on the original 6 acres that I was planning on. seems hes not happy with his farmers methods and he is willing to let me "reclaim" some of the areas where the farming practices have caused some terrible erosion. so looks like I may be getting 10-15acres to mess with instead of the original 6. so i will be looking into some native grasses as well as food crops thanks for the suggestions and ill keep ya'll posted

[Peak]

Your best bet would be to contact an "expert", not to say there haven't been good suggestions here but get a hold of someone to help you figure out what the site potential really is and how to get to an achievable end result. For instance maybe there is a lot of good brood rearing habitat in the surrounding area but nesting habitat is lacking, with someone who works in the field they could help you build habitat that provides the necessary structural components for nesting. 10-15 acres really isn't that big so it would be good to define an objective and work towards that, your not going to be able to provide everything necessary to sustain a population in that big of an area. Another benefit of contacting an expert is that there is funding out there for habitat improvement on private land. I would get a hold of local biologist and definitely contact the local Natural Resource Conservation Service as they specialize in this kind of thing.

[jimbo&rooster]

there is already a population of birds in the area, i am just looking to supplement the birds that are there when there are no crops. i have been in contact with a local DNR biologist and he has agreed to come look at the piece of property as soon as I know exactly what my father in law and the farmer have agreed to as to where i can do what i plan on.
jim

[Meller]

Don't know where your from but Quail love Lespideza for cover and food.
Don't know if I spelled that right or not, so I hope you know what I ment to say.

[jimbo&rooster]

Im in Southwest Indiana
Jim

[Big Dave]

I say cut some of the standing treelines inton downed tree structures and maybe do some fall discing to get some ragweed. I have some of my best hunting in weed patches. Your state conservation or DNR is a good place to start with an on site meeting.

[RayGubernat]

There are lots of things you can plant that will provide canopy and yet leave open ground for the birds to run in.

I understand that quail prefer 50% bare ground so clump type grasses would be good. A local seed supplier was just telling me that there is currently a good bit of interest in planting sesame plants as a food source for quail down here in DE. It requires a soil pH of 7 or more and is apparently a bit tricky to get started, but once the plant gets to about a foot high it starts shedding seeds and continues to do so throughout the growing season.

I also agree that your local county ag agent or state wildlife biologist would be a great place to get info on what works best in your particular area and soil type. NRCS can also provide cost sharing or grant funds if you can do a set aside on that acreage. There are all manner of programs which will provide financial assistance for even rather small plots.

There are always strings and conditions attached to many government assistance programs so be sure of what you are getting into.

RayG

[tommyboy72]

You guys must live in some really good states because around here the wildlife biologist just wants to collect a paycheck and do nothing for his money. Not just him but the game warden as well. Your governments must be a lot different than western Oklahoma government because I see a lot of people recommend talking to their DNR, USDA, DW&F, or whatever. You would not get anywhere doing that out here where I live.

[solon]

I don't know anything about quail habitat, but around our parts, honey suckle is an invasive, undesirable plant. There would be better bushes for cover for quail that would also produce better qualtiy food. You might want to check into that. Getting rid of honey suckle is not easy. I understand that you can kill it with a torch by burning the stems. We also cut it off, especially in the fall and immediately paint the stump with concentrated glyphosate (Roundup). Ripping it out doesn't work, since it regenerates from the roots.

Solon

[tommyboy72]

Ya reckon that's maybe why Vermont doesn't have a huge population of quail?

[solon]

It is not the cold that is tough on quail here in Vermont, but the snow depths. I have heard of pen raised quail that were released and wintered over when they had access to bird feeders for food in the winter. The game birds that can deal with deep snow are the ones that can bud when the ground is inaccessible. That limits us to Ruffed Grouse and Turkeys, pretty much.
Another thing that hurts our game birds is that Vermont prohibits spreading of manure on fields in the winter to prevent contaminated runoffs. Barnyard manure spread on snow covered fields is a good food source for turkeys and ducks, where it is practiced.

Back about 50+ years, before atrazine, there were substantial pheasant populations around southern VT. They are all gone now.

Solon

[Ayres]

Im in Southwest Indiana
Jim

Well hey there neighbor. I'm in SE Illinois, very close to the IN border.

[tommyboy72]

Ya new farming practices all over the country seem to be the culprit in the decline in quail and pheasant populations. You would think the government would see this and try and promote different farming practices that would increase gamebird populations. I do not include CRP in this because that is not a farming practice that is actually not using the land for farming. New machinery and equipment and practices are so clean now that it doesn't leave much waste for the birds. I have lived in several different areas of the country and it seems to be the same everywhere. Here in the Oklahoma panhandle we have a decent population of quail and the pheasant population is booming but quail numbers are down from 15 years ago when I got real serious about hunting upland birds. North Carolina had horrible farming practices when it came to promoting gamebirds. They farmed mostly cotton and soybeans around where I lived there but unlike Oklahoma the wind did not blow much there so there would be barren fields with absolutely no cover or waste grains left at all just plowed fields left bare until the next year of planting. Not many quail where I lived over around Goldsboro either.

[jimbo&rooster]

Im in Southwest Indiana
Jim

Well hey there neighbor. I'm in SE Illinois, very close to the IN border.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure where flat rock is but I'm from Sullivan In straight west of Robinson bout 10sh miles as the crow flies.
Jim

And its not so much that our state is good or our DNR but wee do have a good local DNR biologist.

[ezzy333]

You would think the government would see this and try and promote different farming practices that would increase gamebird populations.

It would be my guess that farming practices are basically directed at what produces the most and not what enhances the gamebirds. That would be like asking you to only go to work two days a week at the same hourly pay you make now so our roads would last longer.

I think there are some practices that do help but lets all try to keep the government out of it.

Ezzy

[Ayres]

Im in Southwest Indiana
Jim

Well hey there neighbor. I'm in SE Illinois, very close to the IN border.

Yeah I'm not exactly sure where flat rock is but I'm from Sullivan In straight west of Robinson bout 10sh miles as the crow flies.
Jim

And its not so much that our state is good or our DNR but wee do have a good local DNR biologist.

I have extended family in Sullivan. It's also on the way to Terre Haute, where my parents now live. Flat Rock is just south of Robinson (I work in Robinson), about a fifteen minute drive in the morning.

[jimbo&rooster]

i guess sullivan would be east of robinson anyhow. hahah
jim

[zzweims]

Sounds like you've got a pretty good base to start from. The weeds are critical. With the *right* weeds, there will be little need to plant food crops. Until/unless you establish ragweed, beggarlice, partridge pea, etc. go ahead and plant narrow strips of milo, pearl millet, grain sorghum, but let the weeds be the main part of your field. You can always scatter feed in winter. Can you burn this land? Your weeds are a bit tall and a good burning will produce good weeds. Ditto for winter discing. Good luck and have fun with it.

Aline
http://zzfarms.com