Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

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Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:13 am

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/ ... cgi?BFTHOF

This is a petition to get Buddy Nominated to the BFTHOF...This is the first part to getting Buddy Nominated. The more signatures he has the better

here is the synopsis of Nolans Last Bullets accomplishments.

Brittany Field Trial Hall Of Fame


This is a Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet to be elected to the American Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame. As per the Requirements from the http://www.brittanyfieldtrialhalloffame.org site

Purpose

The purpose of the BFTHF is to recognize and honor Brittany's and Brittany owners that have made significant contributions to the Sport of Field Trialing. To date 68 Brittany's and 36 Brittany enthusiasts have been inducted and pictures of these dogs and people are displayed in the Hall of Fame.


Outstanding dogs are recognized by their entire competitive career, field trial performance record (championship wins) and production record. They must be deceased at least one year prior to opening of nominations May 1. These are the same dogs you would like to find in the pedigree of that good pup you just bought!

Nolan's Last Bullet has accomplished all these requirements and his condensed history is as listed

6x American Field 2x American Field Runner up 32x NSTRA Nolan's Last Bullet aka Buddy This Brittany competed in a format that braced him against all pointing breeds and he won more then any other dog.
As of this petition the closest living dog is Stephens Bright Copper a Pointer who at 11Y.O just attained his 25th NSTRA champion matching his sire Crow's Little Joe.

Buddy's American Field wins and progeny record as of Feb 2010 is 150-18-243

Buddy is proof just how great the Brittany can be, as not only did he attain 32x Championships he is sire to 32 NSTRA Championed Brittany's that have a combined total of 112 NSTRA championships. This doesn't include how many total placements of Buddy's progeny there are.

Buddy's Progeny there are 5 that have a total of 7 National NSTRA championships and 3 with National placements.

and 5 grand progeny with NSTRA National Placements

in AKC Buddy has sired 2 Show Champion and 5 FC/AFC and 2 AFC
2 Progeny that have National Placements and a grand Progeny who won the Open and Amateur National Gundog Championships

He has been on the cover of the American Field 8 times. The Quail Unlimited magazine cover twice. The cover of the NSTRA Magazine 9 times. Written up in the American Brittany twice, the Pointing Dog Journal twice, once as a trial win and again as a tribute to Buddy and his brother Clay covering their accomplishments after Buddys passing .

Nolan's Last Bullet aka Buddy opened up many peoples eyes to the wonderful Brittany Breed and Any Brittany who hits the field and wins and wins and wins breaking records and produces progeny who excel in the field also should be supported by the Brittany and bird dog people. Buddy Accomplished what no other pointing breed has done.

Please sign this petition so that In August 2010 when Nominations open for BFTHOF Buddy has a list of supporters for his nomination to be turned in and recognized


Thank You
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by snips » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:18 am

I signed it :D
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by PntrRookie » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:23 am

Signed and will pass on...thx knine

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by NC Quailhunter » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:35 am

Signed and delivered. I am hoping this is just for the formality sake and not because ther is a question of whether or not he is deserving. I think we will be hard pressed to find a brittany more deserving right now.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:06 am

That is Why We quoted the parameters of what is looked for in a Hall Of Fame dogs
This is a Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet to be elected to the American Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame. As per the Requirements from the http://www.brittanyfieldtrialhalloffame.org site

Purpose

The purpose of the BFTHF is to recognize and honor Brittany's and Brittany owners that have made significant contributions to the Sport of Field Trialing. To date 68 Brittany's and 36 Brittany enthusiasts have been inducted and pictures of these dogs and people are displayed in the Hall of Fame.


Outstanding dogs are recognized by their entire competitive career, field trial performance record (championship wins) and production record. They must be deceased at least one year prior to opening of nominations May 1. These are the same dogs you would like to find in the pedigree of that good pup you just bought!

Nolan's Last Bullet has accomplished all these requirements and his condensed history is as listed
No matter if a person likes it or not Nolans Last Bullet has made a name for himself in the brittany world. He has done what no other brittany has done much less another pointing breed. I think any dog that has excelled in a venue with the success Buddy has along with his progeny are by the purpose quoted above are very deserving

I would hope like in the German Shorthair club that Rick and Brenda's Fritz dog gets elected as he has done something which I think truly warrants it and he has passed on to his pups but hopefully that will be a LONG time off
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by sjkennels » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:19 am

i signed it
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:07 am

I too am a Buddy supporter as I think most Brittany breeders are. That has never been a question. However there are a few things that need to be remembered and probably discussed.

The Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame was organized and supported by the field trialers as a place to honor people and dogs that were exceptional within that field.

The Brittany Hall of Fame was organized and supported by the Brittany breeders that were members of the American Brittany Club as a place to honor any Brittany that has excelled in some way that made it an outstanding example of the breed.

I also believe there is an NSTRA hall of Fame that is a parallel organization to the Brittany Field Trial HOF, though it was organized and supported by the people who belonged to that organization to honor people and dogs that were outstanding in that venue.

Without further explanation of the organizations and what they stand for it seems we would have to look at the records of a dog within the parameters of each of the three organizations and see if or where a dog fits. In my mind there can be no doubt that Buddy and Nolan should be right at the top of the NSTRA Hall of Fame. And at least in my mind Buddy should be strongly considered for the Brittany Hall of Fame though basically I feel a dog should be a Dual Champion of some sort but the things Buddy accomplished in NSTRA and also the dogs he has produced would sure give him serious consideration. But I find it hard to understand how he would qualify for the Brittany Field Trial HOF when he didn't even compete in their venue.

It seems to me to be a misunderstanding of what the different HOF's really are. Much of that may stem from the name of the organization. Brittany Field Trial should probably have a different title since some people think it refers to any field activities and not to the dogs that competed in that venue. I don't think it is the answer but maybe something like the Brittany Horseback Field Trial HOF or at least something that spells out it is a HOF for dogs and owners that are part of that single organization and not field trials in general.

Though I support Buddy and his accomplishments as much as anyone I can not support him for inclusion in the HOF for a venue he didn't perform in just as I wouldn't support him in the NAVADA HOF or the GSP HOF or an Obedience HOF. The very first requirement for any dog or person to be eligible is they must have competed within the venue that the HOF covers.

I hope all of the Brittany people will get behind Buddy as a Brittany HOF candidate and I sure hope all of the NSTRA people will honor him by including him in their HOF. But that doesn't give us any moral authority to try and force his acceptance in an organizations HOF that he was never a part of let alone an outstanding performer in that venue.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:07 am

I don't know about that, Ezzy. Surely Buddy's primary focus was on NSTRA, but he also had a good dose of American Field in there. And his progeny should be considered as well. There are plenty of dogs out there in a HOF of some sort that didn't necessarily do the thing themselves, but produced dogs that did. I don't think his lack of competition in AKC Field Trials should weigh too heavily against his induction in light of the other factors to be considered.

Take this for what it is, an opinion coming from a non-Brittany person.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:11 pm

Ayres wrote:I don't know about that, Ezzy. Surely Buddy's primary focus was on NSTRA, but he also had a good dose of American Field in there. And his progeny should be considered as well. There are plenty of dogs out there in a HOF of some sort that didn't necessarily do the thing themselves, but produced dogs that did. I don't think his lack of competition in AKC Field Trials should weigh too heavily against his induction in light of the other factors to be considered.

Take this for what it is, an opinion coming from a non-Brittany person.
Steve, those AF wins were actually NSTRA wins back when AF was affiliated with NSTRA. And if you can point out any dogs that are in a HOF without competing themselves I would be interested in seeing their names and would sure wonder who would vote them in when they didn't compete.

But in this case the organization that supports their HOF has set the rules that they voted on that would have to be met to qualify and don't think any of us has a right to try and tell them how to run their organization. Kind of like any of us trying to tell the GSPCA what color they should allow when the decision is up to the people involved and the decisions are made by a legitimate vote. A case of the majority of the members rule and not what any one person thinks. I will be in the support group for Buddy to be inducted into any HOF when and if he meets the organizations predetermined qualifications. He has proven himself to be an exceptional dog.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:46 pm

ezzy333 wrote:But in this case the organization that supports their HOF has set the rules that they voted on that would have to be met to qualify and don't think any of us has a right to try and tell them how to run their organization. Kind of like any of us trying to tell the GSPCA what color they should allow when the decision is up to the people involved and the decisions are made by a legitimate vote. A case of the majority of the members rule and not what any one person thinks. I will be in the support group for Buddy to be inducted into any HOF when and if he meets the organizations predetermined qualifications. He has proven himself to be an exceptional dog.
Two things here: First, I don't think anyone is trying to tell the Brittany FT HOF how to run their organization, and I certainly don't see the comparison to the GSPCA unless you're insinuating (incorrectly) that I'm debating for the inclusion of black without being a GSPCA member (which I am). But regardless of that off-topic remark, you make the statement that it's a case of the majority of the members rule and not what any one person thinks. What do you think a majority is made up of (rhetorical)? A great number of individual persons, with all of their individual thoughts and beliefs. I certainly see petition, persuasion and debate as very legitimate tools to help gather a majority to act.

Second, it appears that Buddy has, in fact, met all the organization's predetermined qualifications for induction. So do you support his induction into the Brittany FT HOF then, or not? It certainly seemed like, in your previous post, you would not support him.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Ayres wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:But in this case the organization that supports their HOF has set the rules that they voted on that would have to be met to qualify and don't think any of us has a right to try and tell them how to run their organization. Kind of like any of us trying to tell the GSPCA what color they should allow when the decision is up to the people involved and the decisions are made by a legitimate vote. A case of the majority of the members rule and not what any one person thinks. I will be in the support group for Buddy to be inducted into any HOF when and if he meets the organizations predetermined qualifications. He has proven himself to be an exceptional dog.
Two things here: First, I don't think anyone is trying to tell the Brittany FT HOF how to run their organization, and I certainly don't see the comparison to the GSPCA unless you're insinuating (incorrectly) that I'm debating for the inclusion of black without being a GSPCA member (which I am). But regardless of that off-topic remark, you make the statement that it's a case of the majority of the members rule and not what any one person thinks. What do you think a majority is made up of (rhetorical)? A great number of individual persons, with all of their individual thoughts and beliefs. I certainly see petition, persuasion and debate as very legitimate tools to help gather a majority to act.

Second, it appears that Buddy has, in fact, met all the organization's predetermined qualifications for induction. So do you support his induction into the Brittany FT HOF then, or not? It certainly seemed like, in your previous post, you would not support him.

I am not being critical of the debate and was not inferring your status within the GSPCA. But I am comparing it to this discussion in this way. Buddy shouldn't be in the GSP HOF because he isn't a GSP and he shouldn't be in the Brittany FT HOF because he never competed in the Brittany FT venue. I don't think he should be given an Honorary Show title either since he never competed there either even if he meets all of the show standards. Great dogs should be considered for honorary titles in the venues they excel in and not in the ones he didn't even compete in. Guess that just my opinion but it is how I see things should work. Our AKC GSPs and Brittanys have no reason to be included in the AF Hall of Fame and as you can see they are not. Every organization has a right to include or exclude any dogs that want by setting the standards that qualifies the dog for consideration. The Brittany FT HOF has been put in place to honor the dogs that excelled in Brittany Field Trials and not for the NSTRA dogs. Brittanys that excel in NSTRA should be in thaeit HOF and I am sure Buddy will be enshrined their in his rightful place.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by PntrRookie » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:20 pm

ezzy333 wrote:...and he shouldn't be in the Brittany FT HOF because he never competed in the Brittany FT venue. Ezzy
OK I am going to throw this out there (I am obviously not a Brit guy and please correct me if I am wrong) BUT...aren't the "Brittany FT venues" all sanctioned under the Field? And Buddy DID run under the Field's acceptance for many years. So in a round about way he did play in the Brittany FT venue. Also aren't there "blue hen" producing females in the HOF that never ran but are in it for what they produced (I may be all wet on that one :) )?

IMHO...To me, if you saw him run or spent time with him, it is a no brainer. It is not like they are asking for a Vizsla to be nominated for the Brit FT HOF. He is a Brit that ran Field Trials.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:47 pm

IMHO...To me, if you saw him run or spent time with him, it is a no brainer. It is not like they are asking for a Vizsla to be nominated for the Brit FT HOF. He is a Brit that ran Field Trials.
Again, I agree he was a great dog that needs to be enshrined in the NSTRA HOF where he competed. But I can't agree that either of us can change the rules of the Brittany Field Trial Assc. and their HOF requirements for the dogs that compete in their venue. Buddy didn't compete in "Brittany Field Trial" events. I think the confusion is in the term field trial since some want to call NSTRA trials Field Trials. I agree they both are in the general term of field trials but unfortunately Field Trial is the specific term for the AKC weekend horseback and walking trials. The two are completely separate and different in requirements and each have their own HOF for the dogs that compete in those venues.

This has nothing to do with Buddy but rather just saying where he should he honored for the area he excelled in. Brittany FT HOF and NSTRA HOF are supported by their own specific organizations to honor the dogs that competed in their specific venues. The two have no connection to each other.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by kninebirddog » Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:59 pm

Ezzy ...Would you please show us where it states that it AKC and American field trial "only"

I quoted and even posted the link to the brittany field trial hall of fame in my petition http://www.brittanyfieldtrialhalloffame.org
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ruffshooter » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:27 pm

Knine your link or I do not work. For me anyway.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by big steve46 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:33 pm

Buddy is already in the NSTRA HOF.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:33 pm

That's the correct link, but it looks like their site is down for some reason. Google came up with the same web link with the search term "Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame"
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Shadow » Tue Apr 06, 2010 2:41 pm

right big Steve- bird dog Hall O Fame is what I think is the game now

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Razor » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:02 pm

ezzy333 wrote:I too am a Buddy supporter as I think most Brittany breeders are. That has never been a question. However there are a few things that need to be remembered and probably discussed.

The Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame was organized and supported by the field trialers as a place to honor people and dogs that were exceptional within that field.

The Brittany Hall of Fame was organized and supported by the Brittany breeders that were members of the American Brittany Club as a place to honor any Brittany that has excelled in some way that made it an outstanding example of the breed.

I also believe there is an NSTRA hall of Fame that is a parallel organization to the Brittany Field Trial HOF, though it was organized and supported by the people who belonged to that organization to honor people and dogs that were outstanding in that venue.

Without further explanation of the organizations and what they stand for it seems we would have to look at the records of a dog within the parameters of each of the three organizations and see if or where a dog fits. In my mind there can be no doubt that Buddy and Nolan should be right at the top of the NSTRA Hall of Fame. And at least in my mind Buddy should be strongly considered for the Brittany Hall of Fame though basically I feel a dog should be a Dual Champion of some sort but the things Buddy accomplished in NSTRA and also the dogs he has produced would sure give him serious consideration. But I find it hard to understand how he would qualify for the Brittany Field Trial HOF when he didn't even compete in their venue.

It seems to me to be a misunderstanding of what the different HOF's really are. Much of that may stem from the name of the organization. Brittany Field Trial should probably have a different title since some people think it refers to any field activities and not to the dogs that competed in that venue. I don't think it is the answer but maybe something like the Brittany Horseback Field Trial HOF or at least something that spells out it is a HOF for dogs and owners that are part of that single organization and not field trials in general.

Though I support Buddy and his accomplishments as much as anyone I can not support him for inclusion in the HOF for a venue he didn't perform in just as I wouldn't support him in the NAVADA HOF or the GSP HOF or an Obedience HOF. The very first requirement for any dog or person to be eligible is they must have competed within the venue that the HOF covers.

I hope all of the Brittany people will get behind Buddy as a Brittany HOF candidate and I sure hope all of the NSTRA people will honor him by including him in their HOF. But that doesn't give us any moral authority to try and force his acceptance in an organizations HOF that he was never a part of let alone an outstanding performer in that venue.

Ezzy
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Anaconda Pintler » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:52 pm

It dont matter if Buddy never stepped foot onto a horseback course run under the AF or not the simple MATTER OF FACT is at the time he did his winning AF honored the championships like it or not they did so those 6 CH can not be taken away or held against him!
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:40 pm

big steve46 wrote:Buddy is already in the NSTRA HOF.
As well he should be. Probably the greatest dog to have ever run in them or at least has the best record. He should be at the very top of the list and Nolan should be there with him.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:45 pm

Anaconda Pintler wrote:It dont matter if Buddy never stepped foot onto a horseback course run under the AF or not the simple MATTER OF FACT is at the time he did his winning AF honored the championships like it or not they did so those 6 CH can not be taken away or held against him!
No one has even mentioned taking anything away from him. He earned every title he got. He just never got his FC title as he never competed in that venue. And that doesn't take anything away from him either. A great dog and is honored by being in the HOF of the organization that he competed in. I think that is the way it is supposed to work.

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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by TAK » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:11 pm

ezzy333 wrote: A great dog and is honored by being in the HOF of the organization that he competed in. I think that is the way it is supposed to work.

Ezzy
And he is ALSO a BRIT! He was/is a force for the Brit, and Brits to come! The dog was a fine animal! Well worth the HOF!

I signed it and passed it on as well!

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:08 am

TAK wrote:
ezzy333 wrote: A great dog and is honored by being in the HOF of the organization that he competed in. I think that is the way it is supposed to work.

Ezzy
And he is ALSO a BRIT! He was/is a force for the Brit, and Brits to come! The dog was a fine animal! Well worth the HOF!

I signed it and passed it on as well!
I too said he should be a canidate to the Brittany HOF but this petition is not for that. This one is for the dogs that performed in the Brittany field trials. Buddy never competed in them.

Ezzy
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http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:47 am

I'm confused. I haven't seen where the Brittany FT HOF is specifically for AKC weekend field trials. Did you just assume that, Al, or do you have some source that the rest of us haven't seen to back it up? If you've got a source, cite it so we can all see!
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by TAK » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:18 am

ezzy333 wrote:
TAK wrote:
ezzy333 wrote: A great dog and is honored by being in the HOF of the organization that he competed in. I think that is the way it is supposed to work.

Ezzy
And he is ALSO a BRIT! He was/is a force for the Brit, and Brits to come! The dog was a fine animal! Well worth the HOF!

I signed it and passed it on as well!
I too said he should be a canidate to the Brittany HOF but this petition is not for that. This one is for the dogs that performed in the Brittany field trials. Buddy never competed in them.

Ezzy
How I look at it is.... Buddy is a Brit going for a Brit HALL OF FAME.... In my opinion you have to first be a Brit to be considered, next you have to do something remarkable. OK did that too, and third you have to be worthy of such a title... My opinion he not only is worthy, he sets the bar!
And it is not that he is a NSTRA dog! He was ran in trials of his owners choice, and this dog kicked some serious arse!

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by vabrittfan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:51 am

As several have posted yes Buddy should probably get in but will he is a different matter entirely. This has been talked about extensively on a couple of the Brittany e-lists awhile back. Even though the actual wording for the BFTHOF talks about contributions in the "field" it really is meaning the horseback AKC trials even though it doesn't say that. It seems to be an un-spoken rule.

But then again I never thought the ABC would induct Ch Jordean All Kiddin' Aside JH "Ollie" to the ABC HOF (which is separate from the BFTHOF being discussed here). It is also supposed to be for Brittanys with outstanding contributions to the breed, but it seems to have an un-spoken rule too about field/dual dogs getting in. Ollie is probably the only strictly show dog in many many years to make it in. But his record is undeniable and I guess he finally had the votes to get in. (Something like 51 Best in Shows & 5 National specialty wins not to mention something like 200+ champion offspring including 3 DCh & 5 MH)
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by PntrRookie » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:58 am

How many Brit Hall of Fames are there? :roll: I am getting dizzy reading all this.

I think we should throw them ALL out and use ONE! The Bird Dog Hall of Fame. Period.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:37 am

PntrRookie wrote:How many Brit Hall of Fames are there? :roll: I am getting dizzy reading all this.

I think we should throw them ALL out and use ONE! The Bird Dog Hall of Fame. Period.

Being a Brittany supporter and that makes me a Buddy supporter I have tried to explain the situation so everyone could understand it but haven't done well.

Every organization seems to have a HOF.

NSTRA HOF has already inducted Buddy as he has set every record going in their trials

American Brittany Club has a HOF and it includes Brittanys that have excelled is someway within any venue or activity. Buddy is a candidate for this in my mind at least and hopefully gets inducted.

Brittany Field Trial Assoc.has a Field Trial HOF for dogs that have excelled in their walking or horseback field trials. Buddy didn't compete in this venue but it is what the petition is for.

I don't understand why he should be in their HOF or why any one would want him included in something he didn't compete in.

I'm not sure their isn't an agility HOF too but again I don't think NSTRA or the field trials would qualify Buddy or any Field Champion for their HOF.

I'm not sure where it stems from but I think the confusion that is leading people to try and get buddy inducted into a HOF where he didn't compete is that the NSTRA supporters are thinking because it is a type of field trial it should qualify him for the Brittany Field trial Assoc HOF and they are both just organizations that run trials with completely different rules and regs. Probably should be a different name that doesn't include field trial for that venue.

Maybe this makes it clearer

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by TAK » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:59 am

ezzy333 wrote: I'm not sure where it stems from but I think the confusion that is leading people to try and get buddy inducted into a HOF where he didn't compete is that the NSTRA supporters are thinking because it is a type of field trial it should qualify him for the Brittany Field trial Assoc HOF and they are both just organizations that run trials with completely different rules and regs. Probably should be a different name that doesn't include field trial for that venue.

Maybe this makes it clearer

Ezzy
To me it is a BIRDDOG thing only... Who cares about the venue. The dog is a Brit...right... and it was a great one at that...
Again not a NSTRA thing to me... It is a kick bum dog that placed the Brit on the map!

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by gunner » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:39 am

Thanks Ezzy for the clarification. Why would anyone be proud of his dog being slipped in the back door of an organization in which trials it never competed.
American Field's basic minimum standards for walking or horseback stakes would exclude Buddy. Fine dog that excelled in NSTRA competition only. I don't believe he was ever even entered in a traditional field trial.

"To me it is a BIRDDOG thing only... Who cares about the venue."
Thats pretty naive. I'd be surprised if and when NSTRA would start recognizing the National Bird Dog Champion or any of the other 3 hour wild bird horseback champions, or for that matter any AKC FT horseback champions for their HOF because "it's a bird dog thang"

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by jetto » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:11 pm

I agree with Ezzy & Gunner 100%. I am a Brittany person who pays close attention to nominations for our hall of fames and who field trials and shows.

For those of you who are not American Brittany Club members- the ABC is affiliated with the AKC- not the UKC not NSTRA not NAVHDA nor any other organization except for the AKC. Some of our trials run as dually sanctioned by the AF- but not all of our trials. But ALL but a very few "Brittany" trials are AKC sanctioned.

Our magazine features results from Brittany club AKC specialty shows and Brittany club AKC Field trials each and every month. We also feature Brittany club sponsored AKC hunt tests.

We do not feature UKC shows or trials, NSTRA or anything EXCEPT for AKC events in the magazine. On occasion there will be an article or a blurb on something a spectacular dog like Buddy has done in a NON-AKC event. But that is the rarity- not the norm.

AGAIN the American Brittany Club is an AMERICAN KENNEL CLUB affiliated breed club.

A Club cannot be all things to all people even in todays mindset of "everyone gets a ribbon".

The ABC has chosen to affiliate with the AKC so it's AKC events we are attached to. Like it or not. And that includes our FT HALL OF FAME. It may not be in writing Arlette- but I can guarantee you in peoples minds the HOF designation in front of a dogs name equates to horseback one hour AKC field trials- nothing else.

I was asked by a friend to pass around the Buddy petition. I did so without any comments of my own attached. I forwarded it to a number of friends who have been in Brittanys for 20 plus years and who compete in AKC field trials and the showring.

100% of them said NO to Buddy going into the FT Hall of Fame.

All agreed he should be inducted into the Brittany Hall of Fame.

Doesn't matter what you think of us having 2 hall of fames. Only matters what the Brittany people think about this issue and as Michelle said- it is a devisive issue and one that people have strong feelings about. My signature will NOT be on a petition to put Buddy into the FT Hall of Fame.

If I ever see one for the Brittany Hall of Fame- then i'll sign it. Kristi

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by slistoe » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:01 pm

Put me in for another that says Ezzy is 100% correct on this one. I find it surprising that this thread lasted past his first post. Indicates to me that there are a lot of people who operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire. It is that blatantly obvious to me.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Shadow » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:31 pm

it's all interesting reading- what some should remember is- Hall of Fame- not pick apart venues of what he did, where he ran, where he didn't run-

maybe some could say they know of a hall of famer that wasn't all that good as a bird hunter- and being a bird dog- shouldn't be considered

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:23 pm

slistoe wrote:Indicates to me that there are a lot of people who operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you get to insinuate that they "operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire." Keep it clean.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Ayres » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:27 pm

jetto wrote:It may not be in writing Arlette- but I can guarantee you in peoples minds the HOF designation in front of a dogs name equates to horseback one hour AKC field trials- nothing else.
In whose minds? I mean, it's apparently not in everybody's mind or the petition wouldn't have been formed or gathered so many signatures.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by vabrittfan » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:04 pm

If anyone is interested here are the requirements of the ABC Hall of Fame:

To be eligible, the dog must be dead. Date of death must be within the past 15 years. Nominees should be animals that knowledgeable breeders would look for in pedigrees when establishing or improving breeding programs. They should epitomize the dual ideal and during their lifetimes have achieved National recognition from Brittany fanciers for their show and trial (field and obedience) ability through successful competition on a multi-regional or National level, and/or that produced a high average of progeny from different dams or sires who were generally acknowledged as being of extra merit.

Nomination form http://clubs.akc.org/brit/forms/ABCHOFDogs.pdf

As several have mentioned the criteria for the ABC Hall of Fame may lend itself to Buddy being inducted rather than the BFTHOF.
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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by jetjockey » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:06 pm

I agree 100%. Buddy shouldn't be in the BFTHOF. He doesn't deserve it. He didn't run in Brit AKC events against NFC/FC/AFC dogs in horseback and walking trials. He ran in a seperate venue, and he is in that venus HOF. Should he be in the Brittany HOF? Absolutely, but not the BFTHOF. There are tons of Brits who easily have 6 AF wins under their belt, but that won't get them nominated in the FTHOF. How do you nominate a dog for the BFTHOF when he didn't even compete in Brittany Field Trials, which is what the FTHOF for Brittanys is about?

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:13 pm

Ayres wrote:
slistoe wrote:Indicates to me that there are a lot of people who operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you get to insinuate that they "operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire." Keep it clean.
I believe this was a reaction to the fact that a few have ignored the explanation of what it takes to be eligable for the BFTHOF after it was explained.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by Razor » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:16 pm

He does have 6 RECOGNIZED AF championships, but we all know he never won one single American Field championship.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:22 pm

jetjockey wrote:I agree 100%. Buddy shouldn't be in the BFTHOF. He doesn't deserve it. He didn't run in Brit AKC events against NFC/FC/AFC dogs in horseback and walking trials. He ran in a seperate venue, and he is in that venus HOF. Should he be in the Brittany HOF? Absolutely, but not the BFTHOF. There are tons of Brits who easily have 6 AF wins under their belt, but that won't get them nominated in the FTHOF. How do you nominate a dog for the BFTHOF when he didn't even compete in Brittany Field Trials, which is what the FTHOF for Brittanys is about?
The last time I checked the BFTHOF was not named the AKC/AF /AFTCA / BFTHOF. Does the HOF specifically designate a paticular organization? It's not like NSTRA is a new organization that may not be around next year. I think their events are called field trials. Just a thought. :)

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:45 pm

Ayres wrote:
jetto wrote:It may not be in writing Arlette- but I can guarantee you in peoples minds the HOF designation in front of a dogs name equates to horseback one hour AKC field trials- nothing else.
In whose minds? I mean, it's apparently not in everybody's mind or the petition wouldn't have been formed or gathered so many signatures.
How many signatures has it gathered? I never saw a figure published. I do know a few people who don't have Brits and had no knowledge of the different HOF's signed it and a few people who do the NSTRA trials that have worked at minimizing the differences in the organizations and the type of venues they sponsor started it back soon after Buddy died. But it had pretty much died down when it qualifications of the different HOF became better understood amongst the non AKC field trialers.

Just hope all of the misguided hype doesn't jeopardize his chances of getting into the Brittany HOF since he does belong their for his record and what he has produced.

Where did you see the figures on the number of signers?

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:52 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:
jetjockey wrote:I agree 100%. Buddy shouldn't be in the BFTHOF. He doesn't deserve it. He didn't run in Brit AKC events against NFC/FC/AFC dogs in horseback and walking trials. He ran in a seperate venue, and he is in that venus HOF. Should he be in the Brittany HOF? Absolutely, but not the BFTHOF. There are tons of Brits who easily have 6 AF wins under their belt, but that won't get them nominated in the FTHOF. How do you nominate a dog for the BFTHOF when he didn't even compete in Brittany Field Trials, which is what the FTHOF for Brittanys is about?
The last time I checked the BFTHOF was not named the AKC/AF /AFTCA / BFTHOF. Does the HOF specifically designate a paticular organization? It's not like NSTRA is a new organization that may not be around next year. I think their events are called field trials. Just a thought. :)
And I think the dogs that excel in their trials go into their HOF. I've never heard of anyone trying to say the Brittany NFC should go into th NSTRA HOF. I have dogs out of NFC's and not a one of them were pushed to be in the NSTRA's HOF. They were honored by being inducted into their proper HOF where they competed.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:21 pm

By the name "The Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame" it implies to me that the organization is a "non denominational" HOF.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:51 pm

AZ Brittany Guy wrote:By the name "The Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame" it implies to me that the organization is a "non denominational" HOF.
I think they ought to rename it but have no idea what you would call it unless they included the AKC and/or AF designation since they are the two that sponsor "Field trials" as we know them. NSTRA and NAVADA use their names in their HOFs. Just a thought. I do tink that is what causes so many to get confused.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by slistoe » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:23 pm

Ayres wrote:
slistoe wrote:Indicates to me that there are a lot of people who operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you get to insinuate that they "operate on pure emotion and rational thought is not in their repertoire." Keep it clean.
:) Just keeping it real. When clearly presented, simple, straightforward, sound logic is ignored what would you describe it as?

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by slistoe » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:29 pm

Razor wrote:He does have 6 RECOGNIZED AF championships, but we all know he never won one single American Field championship.
He has 6 NSTRA Championships from the time period before NSTRA was disenfranchised from the AF. He does not have any Championships from AF Field Trial Competition run under the Minimum Standards - he was not even eligible to enter in them.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:55 am

ezzy333 wrote:
AZ Brittany Guy wrote:By the name "The Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame" it implies to me that the organization is a "non denominational" HOF.
I think they ought to rename it but have no idea what you would call it unless they included the AKC and/or AF designation since they are the two that sponsor "Field trials" as we know them. NSTRA and NAVADA use their names in their HOFs. Just a thought. I do tink that is what causes so many to get confused.

Ezzy
Good idea, or, revise their mission statement to define and clarify what venue(s) they recognize.

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by jetto » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:36 am

The Brittany Hall of Fame and the Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame are both under the umbrella of the American Brittany Club. Check out the club website if you are still not believing. The ABC is an AKC affiliated club. It is considered the parent club for our breed within the American Kennel Club.
AKC events are what they recognize and support. Kristi

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Re: Petition for Nolan's Last Bullet

Post by kninebirddog » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:20 am

The Breed clubs send to AKC what are the guidelines for the breed not the other way around asThe AKC is only a registry, they do not govern any Breed Parent nor is AKC the one that controls the Hall of Fames The individual breed clubs are,because IF AKC /FDSB did then our pedigrees would show HOF titles on those dogs which were voted in.

The only place we have to find out about which of the dogs in our pedigrees are Hall of fame dogs is right here on line or in the Brittany Books which come out every so often


It is we the members and supporters of our breed who support any dogs we wish to induct to the Hall of Fame's no matter what format they were shown or run in should We decide it is warranted they be there and on the regular HOF yes there are many dogs that should be there also including the ones that did superior in the ring or heck even agility if that dog broke all sorts of records and has progeny doing the same...Not my ideal as I would like to see bird work But here is where support those Brittanys which excel beyond others and making a name fr the brittany and a dog which people like to see in their pedigree and build a foundation from is what Hall of Fame is about ...we have 2 one strictly geared for Field trials and the other supposed to be open to all venues of which the Brittany participates in


As for how the HOF's are set up now ...it is really open to what parameters there are and if the majority believes that is should only be AKC or AKC FDSB or HB stakes Only then the rules should be defined as such.

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