what training does my dog need?

[sjkennels]

ok. well i am getting ready to send my pointer off to get trained and i am wondering what all training should get done. my goal for this dog is to run nstra but i will also use the dog to guide at a preserve and to hunt with. so with that i am getting her a little more steady on point and getting her completely whoa broke she is about 90% whoa broke now. i am going to get her backing reliably. should i get her steady to wing and stop to flush? i was told after i get that done then hunt and guide with her for this season then send her off to get her ff'ed next year would it be to much pressure to move right to the ff and just get everything done at once? i dont want her steady to shot/fall because with 95% of the dogs i will be hunting with wont be broke to shot and fall.

thanks for your comments in advance.

[topher40]

I would talk with Bruce and find out what he thinks. He should be able to guide you better than anyone on here that hasnt ever seen the dog. Work closely with your trainer and get on the same page, it will pay off BIG in the long run. He is a NSTRA guy and he will know!

[sjkennels]

i talked to bruce the other day and he couldn't take the dog until maybe september if not later. so i have decided to go with drew since he has already seen my dog work and with his prices and its a plus that he is a hour in a half away so i can go down there on my days off to see how she is coming along. even through he doesnt run in nstra he seems like a good guy and that will not tell you what you want to hear just to get your money. so we will see how it all works out.

[topher40]

I will tell ya something, you get what you pay for. If you talked Drew down your liable to not get the same product as if you would have paid the normal rate. JMO I charge what I charge and DONT waiver. If I am not making as much on one dog as I am going to make on another my motivation is less to do the same amount of work. I see problems ahead for both of you.

[ezzy333]

I will tell ya something, you get what you pay for. If you talked Drew down your liable to not get the same product as if you would have paid the normal rate. JMO I charge what I charge and DONT waiver. If I am not making as much on one dog as I am going to make on another my motivation is less to do the same amount of work. I see problems ahead for both of you.

Don't see where talking Drew down was ever mentioned. Did I miss something? If you are going to be a professional seems that every dog should get the best you have to offer no matter what the price. At least that is the way I always did it. Sometimes for a friend or someone I knew didn't have the money to spend the price was cheaper but not the quality of work I put in.

I have doubts about how far to train when you are hunting with friends that don't train theirs.

Ezzy

[topher40]

i talked to bruce the so i have decided to go with drew since he has already seen my dog work and with his prices and its a plus that he is a hour in a half away so i can go down there on my days off to see how she is coming along.

I bolded the above area where I thought he was talking about price, guess I misread it and took it the wrong way. I have talked with sj though and one of his reservations was price so I immediately interpreted it that way. OOPS :roll:

[ezzy333]

i talked to bruce the so i have decided to go with drew since he has already seen my dog work and with his prices and its a plus that he is a hour in a half away so i can go down there on my days off to see how she is coming along.

I bolded the above area where I thought he was talking about price, guess I misread it and took it the wrong way. I have talked with sj though and one of his reservations was price so I immediately interpreted it that way. OOPS :roll:

Not a problem. I jus didn't see it so thought I would ask. Think we all have done the same.

Ezzy

[gmanksu]

this is precisely why message boards can be a PIA, individuals should not be mentioned by name. I think that SJ can get what ever is needed from either person mentioned, knowing both personally and the product that either is capable of turning out. Be clear of what you want and what you expect from any trainer you use. My suggestion is that you need to figure out what training your dog needs on your own before you send it to a trainer and the training your dog needs isn't going to be found on the internet. You know your dog, if DZ is your choice then go work with him and learn what your dog is doing and what you need to do. If the other is the your choice then do the same, you will learn from either one and each one will have their own methods, their is no cookie cutter method. Some dogs are going to try you no matter what or who they have been worked by, that is just their nature.

[sjkennels]

I already know what I training I am sending my dog off to get but what I am wondering is what all training does a dog need to have be able to run nstra and have a chance at maybe wining that's why I was asking should I add the steady to wing and stop to flush to the training list or will point back and retrieve be good enough thanks for all the replys

[birddog1968]

Dog does not need to be steady to WSF.....

Read the Nstra rules SJ and you will know first hand how they are judged.

[slistoe]

Dog does not need to be steady to WSF.....

Read the Nstra rules SJ and you will know first hand how they are judged.

Better yet, take your dog and go for a drive one day and attend one. Watch the winning dogs and you will see what you need to do to be competitive with them.

[birddog1968]

Dog does not need to be steady to WSF.....

Read the Nstra rules SJ and you will know first hand how they are judged.

Better yet, take your dog and go for a drive one day and attend one. Watch the winning dogs and you will see what you need to do to be competitive with them.

Great suggestion !

That's what I did a month or so ago....and the competition is stiff, I was impressed with the quality of dogs running.

[Wildweeds]

S.J. the easiest comment I can come up with here is.......................why settle for mediocrity in your own dog because of someone elses laziness with theirs? A truly broke dog will wow your clients,they'll talk about it at the tavern afterwards,you'll get repeat business.The dogs I hunt with personally have all been broke,I let them slide and cut them some slack,their work doesn't have to be perfect every time but.............I know that their performance will be better than the rest with a slight slip every now and then.

Sliding down hill from broke is a few steps or a hop,sliding downhill from almost broke is...............knock and chase with near reckless abandon.

i dont want her steady to shot/fall because with 95% of the dogs i will be hunting with wont be broke to shot and fall.

thanks for your comments in advance.

[birddog1968]

Where you been WW, we thought someone put a hit on you and buried you in the desert

[snips]

For NSTRA training steady to wing and stop to flush is definetly to your advantage. Most of the top winning dogs are this way....FOR A REASON.

[Wildweeds]

Busy,busy busy,got a building going here at the house ,work and working with my pup and my buddies pup,between all the directions I'm getting pulled in,it's 9:00 before I get in the house normally,by that time everyone else is dreaming of lot's of burnt powder and tons of bird contacts.

Where you been WW, we thought someone put a hit on you and buried you in the desert

[Ron R]

sj, If she holds walking birds, don't step while being interfeared with by sloppy brace mates, and stops to flush (so you can score a marked bird rather than point it before the 3 min time lapse). That is what you need other than the obviouse, point, back, and retrieve. Your dog hunts hard and has a great nose so if can do all of the above she will be very competitve.

Ron

[scott townsend]

i talked to bruce the other day and he couldn't take the dog until maybe september if not later. so i have decided to go with drew since he has already seen my dog work and with his prices and its a plus that he is a hour in a half away so i can go down there on my days off to see how she is coming along. even through he doesnt run in nstra he seems like a good guy and that will not tell you what you want to hear just to get your money. so we will see how it all works out.

Not taking anything away from either trainer, but I would try to work with the trainer that actually runs in the format. That is the one that is going to know exactly what your dog needs to learn. It will take allot of the quess work out of it for both you and the dog.
Also, what your young dog needs to learn for NSTRA will not be able to be taught in a few months training. It may get you started but it will not have your dog ready to compete at much more then a beginning level. But lots of people start with that and progress the dogs training as he matures and can handle the added stress for some of the finer points to that format.
How old of a dog are you talking about here ?

[TAK]

Everything I run in NSTRA is broke to wing shot and fall and will stop to flush... As time goes on and the amount of birds worked over a weekend they tend to come unglued a bit but not so much that they are moving on birds but more so tend to break at the sound of the shot. I find that dogs only fall off a level or two so I like to train a few steps ahead so if I have a blow up it is still within what needs to be done....

You will also want the dog to stand steady with another dog ripping its bird out... including birds that like to walk around your dog.... Gotta stand a walking bird!

I also say the dog would need Force Fetched.... I know that it might be natural, but for some reason my Natural dogs before have got heated up and on that 5th bird took the bird to the water tank and layed with it.... After FF never have that problem or even that worry.....

[birddogger]

sj, If she holds walking birds, don't step while being interfeared with by sloppy brace mates, and stops to flush (so you can score a marked bird rather than point it before the 3 min time lapse). That is what you need other than the obviouse, point, back, and retrieve. Your dog hunts hard and has a great nose so if can do all of the above she will be very competitve.

Ron

I agree with this. sj, I would also like to say that the last time I saw her work before you got her, she was standing her birds very well. She will probably need to be FF., but she has an awesome nose and I believe she has the potential to be an above average NSTRA and foot hunting dog. As for your question, I think it depends on what you want. A big part of the pleasure I get out of dogs is doing the training myself, but if I thought I needed a pro and was willing to put out the money, I would want the dog broke all the way through. With a dog like you have, it shouldn't be that hard to do if you have some time and patience.

Charlie









0

[scott townsend]

Everything I run in NSTRA is broke to wing shot and fall and will stop to flush... As time goes on and the amount of birds worked over a weekend they tend to come unglued a bit but not so much that they are moving on birds but more so tend to break at the sound of the shot. I find that dogs only fall off a level or two so I like to train a few steps ahead so if I have a blow up it is still within what needs to be done....

You will also want the dog to stand steady with another dog ripping its bird out... including birds that like to walk around your dog.... Gotta stand a walking bird!

I also say the dog would need Force Fetched.... I know that it might be natural, but for some reason my Natural dogs before have got heated up and on that 5th bird took the bird to the water tank and layed with it.... After FF never have that problem or even that worry.....

Excellant advice.