How many days afield on wild birds?

[Birddogz]

30 years ago this question would have had far higher results. The bobwhite decline(in the south) and ruffed grouse decline(in Appalachia) have really hurt the opportunities for the bird hunter. Just curious as to everyone's plight. I am very fortunate to live where I do.

[ezzy333]

Don't think I have ever hunted a tame bird and always find it hard to tell just how wild they are after they have been shot. I think most of the wild birds I have hunted in recent years have been raised in a pen of some type, and then have bewen released. I don't hunt planted birds as I find you always have to be careful that the dogs don't catch them.

Ezzy

[birddog1968]

I assumed you don't mean waterfowl as well....

my days on upland birds have been cut in at least half because our wild quail are pretty much gone....I do work the dogs on a few coveys that I know of.
Most of my wild bird days are spent in the upper midwest. I guide on a preserve for release birds and that keeps me happy somewhat, working the dogs
on pen raised birds.

We don't have any problem with our pointing dogs catching pen raised birds, they are supposed to point them after all. We also go to lengths to raise birds
that fly really well. Some maybe caught by clients flushing dogs but that's mainly because of the thickness of the cover and not the inability of the birds to fly.
Funny tho I have heard comments on the preserve about running birds and how the clients look down on places when a phez or chukar run on them, I usually ask
if they have ever hunted wild birds

[ezzy333]

I don't have a problem with the birds flying if they are awake but when they are put to sleep and planted they can be a problen sith being disoriented. Still not always a problem if the dogs are holding steady but I have found that many times they are not planted well, are leaving very little scent and the dogs can get right on top of them before they know they are there and the birds just don't get up and going quick enough. I try very hard to be sure the birds have been released for a couple of days before we hunt them and then it is hard to tell if they were penraised or not.

You have to remember also, most people who join a club want to shoot a bird and not hunt it. Instead of hunt clubs they ought to be called shooting clubs.

Essy

[windswept]

I'm probably in the 45 - 50 range. Living in South Dakota there is plenty of game and opportunity but a guy can only take off so much time from work. With my game of choice (pheasant) it is pretty easy to tell the difference between pen raised and wild after they are shot. Look at the bird's beak from the side. If you can see clear daylight through the "nostrils" it grew up in a pen wearing a blinder. If not it is wild.

[birddog1968]

I'm probably in the 45 - 50 range. Living in South Dakota there is plenty of game and opportunity but a guy can only take off so much time from work. With my game of choice (pheasant) it is pretty easy to tell the difference between pen raised and wild after they are shot. Look at the bird's beak from the side. If you can see clear daylight through the "nostrils" it grew up in a pen wearing a blinder. If not it is wild.

I used to raise a couple thousand pheasant....rarely used blinders and when I did they didn't go thru the nostril ....they were clip ons, just stretch and let clamp the beak. If your pen is big enough and has enough cover you don't need blinders....

Just sayin

[Birddogz]

If the bird is alive after Christmas it is almost always wild. Most pen raised birds don't like -30 degrees.

[birddog1968]

If the bird is alive after Christmas it is almost always wild. Most pen raised birds don't like -30 degrees.

I can believe that, here they will holdover....we have quite a few running around from the end of last year....and we had 6 ft of snow and some single digits.

[tommyboy72]

Lots of wild birds out here where I live, unfortunately not many high profile jobs. I sure will miss it when I finally find a job back over by Oklahoma City and have to move. Not much of a demand for Finance and Business degrees out here in the middle of nowhere though. Family comes before bird hunting.

[windswept]

I'm probably in the 45 - 50 range. Living in South Dakota there is plenty of game and opportunity but a guy can only take off so much time from work. With my game of choice (pheasant) it is pretty easy to tell the difference between pen raised and wild after they are shot. Look at the bird's beak from the side. If you can see clear daylight through the "nostrils" it grew up in a pen wearing a blinder. If not it is wild.

I used to raise a couple thousand pheasant....rarely used blinders and when I did they didn't go thru the nostril ....they were clip ons, just stretch and let clamp the beak. If your pen is big enough and has enough cover you don't need blinders....

Just sayin

Thanks. That's good to know. Maybe I'm shooting more pen raised birds than I realized!

[birddog1968]

Those clip on blinders did usually (not always) seem to leave a little ridge on the beak....from where the bird grew and the clip on pinched down.

[Mountaineer]

Not enough "Days".
While I could add more days in hunting for ruffed grouse in Ohio, I would be afraid that I would find one.
So I have not bird hunted grouse in my home state for the last 2 years.
Luckily tho, I live on the border as well as close to the Superslab.

Even though you can't efficiently raise ruffed grouse on a practical scale in captivity (Thank God!!!) and I almost never shoot a quail with pheasants being pretty spry in Iowa and Kansas, I have not shot at a Preserve bird in years...never understood the draw.

[birddog1968]

I think the draw is, its a place you can extend your time to enjoy your dogs in a place that lost its birds long ago.

The benefit is it raises some awareness and interest from people that did not have the opportunity (especially kids) to enjoy wild bird hunting before
they disapeared. Anything that gets kids outdoors and interested in the hows and whys is a good thing. Maybe one or more of those kids will get involved
in bringing back the conditions that allowed wild birds to thrive.

I would think that someone from Ohio could understand and get behind that ?

[Ron R]

unfortunately not many high profile jobs. I sure will miss it when I finally find a job back over by Oklahoma City and have to move.

I know that you mentioned that you have family in MO with good wild bird hunting and I'm sure that you could find a job in the St.Louis area. Me and Charlie will take you wild bird hunting with us in IL as well. Just giving you some other options.

[Ron R]

Family comes before bird hunting.

That is always true but they can go hand in hand. Why Ok city?

[birdogg42]

I'm probably in the 45 - 50 range.

I am very close to that Windswept.

unfortunately not many high profile jobs. I sure will miss it when I finally find a job back over by Oklahoma City and have to move.

I know that you mentioned that you have family in MO with good wild bird hunting and I'm sure that you could find a job in the St.Louis area. Me and Charlie will take you wild bird hunting with us in IL as well. Just giving you some other options.

You are welcome down in the bootheel with me as well Tommy.

Mike

[jimbo&rooster]

We dont have a ton of wild birds but I spend 20-30 days a year chasing birds. if you throw in doves and waterfowl I imagine I hunt closer to 60-70. Course now that ive graduated college thing may change. But teaching jobs are few and far between so I may get to hunt alot again this fall........
Jim

[tommyboy72]

Thanks Ron I appreciate it. We will always still be able to come back out here and hunt as well.

Ron I have been working with a recruiter to help me find a job who deals with companies all over the state of Oklahoma and he was telling me that with the degree I have that Oklahoma City or Tulsa are going to be my best bets for getting a good paying job here in the state, namely Oklahoma City. It's not that I want to move far away from good wild bird hunting and access to plenty of private and public land it is just that the pay scale where I live and the huge influx of illegal immigration driving up the housing prices as well as the cost of living is just forcing me to move as well as the fact that no company out here will give me the opportunity to work in an administrative position because I am not the face of the company meaning a pretty hispanic female who speaks Spanish, that and the fact that I just plain refuse to learn Spanish.

Ron we are considering moving back to Missouri where all my family lives but we thought we would try finding work closer to home since we have our 2 young boys. That way we would still live close enough for my wife to come visit her family here and it wouldn't be such a taxing move financially but if nothing comes of working with this recruiter we have already set a date of March 1st for moving out of this area. I said March 1st because that gives me one last quail and pheasant season out here where they are still plentiful. Oh ya and it gives us some time to save extra money to move on and to receive an income tax return to add to the finances as well. The St. Louis area is definitely tops on our list because we would have family to stay with till we got a place of our own and even though it is fairly close to a metropolitan area like St. Louis and St. Charles it is still really rural and from what I hear there are still old farmsteads that can be rented at good prices. So you and Charlie are definitely going to have to make it back out here this winter to do some hunting with me.

[tommyboy72]

Thanks Mike I appreciate the offer as well.

[Ron R]

So you and Charlie are definitely going to have to make it back out here this winter to do some hunting with me

We are planning on it .

[Mountaineer]

I think the draw is, its a place you can extend your time to enjoy your dogs in a place that lost its birds long ago.

The benefit is it raises some awareness and interest from people that did not have the opportunity (especially kids) to enjoy wild bird hunting before
they disapeared. Anything that gets kids outdoors and interested in the hows and whys is a good thing. Maybe one or more of those kids will get involved
in bringing back the conditions that allowed wild birds to thrive.

I would think that someone from Ohio could understand and get behind that ?

The young, the old, the busy or the bored...I do understand the Preserve draw for others.
I was speaking only of myself.
I have never seen a worthwhile draw for me, even now.
I would rather drive 2-4 hours to another state and hunt at wild birds.
In some Preserves, I reckon one could have a grand day.
But, not all Preserves deserve the capital "P" and spending time and money in a place with poor birds that do not help, and may well hurt, my dogs or in cover that permits the dogs to soon understand the benefits of a mown runway will never interest me.
I choose not to seek out the good pay-to-play establishments.
Others may choose differently.

It would be nice to think that kids may one day bring ruffed grouse back to Ohio but it will never happen.
Conditions necessary to do so will never exist again on any worthwhile scale.
It is impossible to ever see more than a blip or two(like at present) on a population decline curve steeper than a horse's face.
Grouse can hold their breath waiting for only so long...and biomass projects or a change in the Public's understanding of the value of early successional for a variety of species on NFs, and all the rest are looong in the future.
To think otherwise shows a basic misuderstanding of the situation and the factors surrounding the situation.

[birddog1968]

we have seen a nice rebound in quail if one only knows where to look.
State lands and surrounding clear cuts have provided the needed habitat, and the short memory of folks that
used to chase them have allowed them to rebound.

One 6000 acre piece of property managed intensively for quail habitat has shown a nice response by the birds,
we did a flushing survey with the dogs and put up 7 coveys in a short half a day walk. Public interest in quail
and woodcock have been enough to allow the state to spend some monies (our money) to make a concerted effort.

Was some of that interest because of preserves, possibly so as there was previously no other reason to own a bird dog
here, except for the few people who trial, and I can say for certain there were no trailers at the flushing surveys.

So take heart and if interest and public input is there (sometimes that has to be coaxed or nurtured) than good things can
happen. If we sit back on a laurels than nothing will happen.

[cgbirddogs]

The last few years I've been only able to hunt on the weekends, all on wild quail or chukar, except for a trip to Patagonia, AZ a couple years back. I guess that is better than nothing. This year I hope to spend a week hunting on the prairies for sharpies/huns/pheasants. We will see how it goes.

[Mountaineer]

....So take heart and if interest and public input is there (sometimes that has to be coaxed or nurtured) than good things can
happen. If we sit back on a laurels than nothing will happen.

Nah, no chance.
Ruffed Grouse require a totally different recovery dynamic than Quail.
Grouse can't be raised and released(Thankfully) to aid native population comebacks either and habitat is vastly different for quail to help the holdovers.
Actually, Ohio has prime grouse habitat with food in many areas...there are other issues afoot but the DNR has written the bird off.
Saw the ODNR abandonment thru their actions in the ACGRP.
State forest land is hampered by a Head fella with an Ecology degree and not a Forestry degree.
"Build it and they will come" requires scale for Grouse....no chance for scale here.
Grouse are history other than in pockets...no extinction, just spreading extirpation.
RGS lost out with the leasing problem here and many of their members spend the most time in a tree stand.
And too many Ohio hunters today are just too satisfied with 1 bird per hour...I stopped hunting at one grouse an hour or a little less because I understand what that number means.
I hunt with a one-time paper company forester as well...we know the country.
He laid out many of the cuts....many folks just don't get the situation.
Preserves would change nothing as regards forest management, ODNR attitude or the Public perception of clearcuts and early successional.
Many other reasons for my view as well.
Grouse populations will ebb and flow for many years trending down all the time.
Just the way it is...hunted here since '64'.
One of the biggest wastes of time is to attach a one-size-fits-all approach to ruffed grouse across the range or to apply management plans for other species and areas...no matter how slight the comparison.

I've spent my time at NF revsion plan meetings,etc., etc., etc.... no laurel sitting, no laurels...the NFs are dead to management.
They are ruled by Politics...not People.
That system will also never change.

[birddog1968]

I will not argue with you on grouse management. If you notice my original post only addressed some of the
good a preserve might bring. That has already proven itself to me habitat wise albeit in a very small way at this point.

The big thing is the smiles and enjoyment it has brought some youngsters that may have never otherwise had the
chance to experience upland shooting. The excitement of seeing what a nice birddog does and the joy taking that
first pheasant regardless if anyone thinks planted bird is inferior. This alone, in my mind, makes the preserve worthwhile
and may have the effect of sparking a youngsters lifelong involvement in hunting or even management. Heck getting
them off the couch and outside is a big deal if ya ask me.

Again for the record, I wasn't tying shooting preserves to grouse management.

[Mountaineer]

....The big thing is the smiles and enjoyment it has brought some youngsters that may have never otherwise had the
chance to experience upland shooting. The excitement of seeing what a nice birddog does and the joy taking that
first pheasant regardless if anyone thinks planted bird is inferior. This alone, in my mind, makes the preserve worthwhile
and may have the effect of sparking a youngsters lifelong involvement in hunting or even management. Heck getting
them off the couch and outside is a big deal if ya ask me....

Sure, once again, I was speaking personally.

I wish there were more Preserves....I still would not use them but I would hope they would get used.
Seems a given....just like more gun clubs.

[Chukar12]

30-40 mostly chukars and valley quail. I hunt pheasants a day or two...start to hate the running ^$#@&(*%##@ and go back to the desert.

[Birddogz]

Don't Chukars and valley quail run quite a bit?

[Chukar12]

Well..they do run some, but we never have to use blockers...

[DGFavor]

Well..they do run some, but we never have to use blockers...

C'mon, come clean. We know you and 30 of your closest buddies pile out of an old school bus to go chukar hunting, shouting "CHUKAR!!" everytime a bird gets up!

[Chukar12]

We got rid of the bus ... too hard to chain up in the winter

[gspmo1]

I spend about 30-40 days a year hunting quail, grouse, and woodcock in Missouri. This past year was the first year I really targeted woodcock, it lengthened my season by a couple of weeks and I saw a lot of birds. wish I could say the same for Missouri quail.

[sjkennels]

I'm probably in the 45 - 50 range. Living in South Dakota there is plenty of game and opportunity but a guy can only take off so much time from work. With my game of choice (pheasant) it is pretty easy to tell the difference between pen raised and wild after they are shot. Look at the bird's beak from the side. If you can see clear daylight through the "nostrils" it grew up in a pen wearing a blinder. If not it is wild.

you can also tell by the stripes on the tail feathers on a pheasant if they are wild or pen raised.

[Birddogz]

How so?

[ezzy333]

you can also tell by the stripes on the tail feathers on a pheasant if they are wild or pen raised

never have heard of that or seenit that I am aware of. A lot of the birds in S.Dakota are released birds and no one evenrealized for years and many still don't. But don' think you can tell them fromthe ones that aren't pen raised.

Ezzy

[3Britts]

I had to go with the 20=30 days as I can't bring myself to count the 1 to 2 hour trips I take when I can't ge away for the whole day.

You can tell a pen raised bird by the stripes on its tail because, if you look with one eye closed, it reads pen raised in little black dots.

[sjkennels]

if its wild the stripes are really thick and if its pen raised the stripes are thin.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Sir,
I do believe this is questions shows more of where you live and what kind hunting you most like to do with your dog. In my case here in Potter/Tioga Pa we train 90% on wild Grouse cause we still have enough wild birds to do so. Many people who train their own dogs do not have the time or wild bird numbers to be in the field that much on wild birds, those of us who do are darn lucky.
RGD/Dave


12 week old Blue Belton Ryman Setter with his 1st Grouse point, on our private land in Potter/Tioga, we are blessed with both the wild birds and the land to train and hunt on.

[Birddogz]

That is the whole idea of the thread. I am seeing how many people have the capability of hunting wild birds. I personally have moved and changed jobs so I can be where the bird hunting is good. I just couldn't live where the bird hunting wasn't good. I did it for 4 years and I couldn't stand it. Having to take trips to bird hunt is tough.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Birddogz,
I fully understand your plight and know others who have relocated for just the same reason, especially after they retire. I am very lucky to have a place in Potter/Tioga Pa, I spend at least 8 months out of the year here, travel to NH, VT, WVa and sometimes Canada to Grouse hunt and train the dogs. The Fly Fishing is also outstanding
here in north central Pa. I have a way of life few men get the chance to enjoy, I hope you are as lucky.
RGD/Dave

[Birddogz]

I am very lucky. I spend my summers deep sea fishing in the Keys and Hilton Head. Then I hunt sharp tails, Prairie chickens, quail, phez, Huns, ducks, geese, deer, turkey, etc. until it is time to fish again. I always feel so blessed. I try and take as many people hunting and fishing as I can.

[M1Tanker]

40 + on Ruffed Grouse around the house...I cannot wait to retire. Only 15 more years to go!!!

[gerryrt4]

NOT ENOUGH!