Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

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Ryman Gun Dog
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by Ryman Gun Dog » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:54 am

Gentlemen,
As long as there are actual serious bird hunters, there will be wash out dogs, a dog who works to close all the time, or one with poor scenting ability usually will not make the grade with an avid Grouse hunter, no matter the dog breed. Ripper one of my Gordons is a big moving Gordon who refused to point planted birds for his original owner. The man had the dog worked by a trainer who played Grouse trial games and the dog bulked refusing to point planted birds. Further the shock collar was used on him in the owners home, I know this because of the way Ripper hid under the couch as we fitted his training collar, after he realized the collar would never be on him in the yard or kennel, he started to become a different animal. Ripper when I got him, was collar shy and scared of his shadow, he equated planted birds with very bad times. He will point planted stuff now, but he definitely acts completely different when being hunter on wild Grouse, from the day we got him we played with him in the Grouse woods, and bonded before we ever demanded anything from him. It took some time but Ripper became close to me and trusted me, I let him piss all over the planted bird cages and his talent for finding and pointing (setting) Grouse grew at each outing. Ripper eventually learned to circle running Grouse, cutting them off and setting them up for my gunning, I was truely proud that he had come that far as a Grouse dog, he had a very rough start, he was a slow developer as many of the old time Scott Gordon dog were, but he finished as a serious Grouse hunting machine for me, just as his Scott ancestors did for their owners.
He definitely has the old time goofy Gordon personallity and he loves water, Ripper is a beautiful animal and fits into my Grouse dog kennel like he was born in it. Further the men love to Grouse hunt with him, he takes commands perfectly and really moves in the Grouse woods, Ripper is the kind of Grouse dog a man loves to watch work the woods, he really moves.
RGD/Dave

Ripper with one of his many many prize Grouse, a washout Grouse Trial Dog that excells as a real time Grouse dog. One of my close friends in Potter County wants to own Ripper, needless to say I am having a great deal of trouble letting my friend have him, even though Marty owns his own private Grouse mountain that has a very serious Grouse population. Ripper has earned the right to live in such a home on a Potter county Grouse Mountain, its just real hard letting him go. Ripper is one of my personal Gun dogs. A Gordon Grouse Dog like few others, giving him up would be like removing part of my heart.

Image

A Grander more beautiful Gordon Grouse Dog was never born. Norm Sorby did his job when his kennel produced this boy.

Image
Last edited by Ryman Gun Dog on Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:04 am, edited 6 times in total.

RayGubernat
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by RayGubernat » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:12 am

Ryman Gun Dog wrote:Big Shooter,
Again its not how big or small your dog runs that counts, its the bidability of the dog and the job he does for his master that counts.
RGD/Dave

On that particular concept...we are in complete agreement.

RayG

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SHORTFAT
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by SHORTFAT » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:49 am

BigShooter...
I may have such a dog. I don't know yet, I think it's too early to tell. I've been seeking advise on her "issues" on several other posts, but she's a 10 month old EP that we were given. Good breeding, but she was a runt that spent her first 8 months in the kennel with very little socializing. She's afraid of her own shadow and I'm not sure she will ever hunt, but... I have seen progress in two months... very, very slow progress... but improvement none the less. :? For now, I will work with her as long as she keeps making any imrovements... I'm sure she would not be worth someone elses time and effort but she's my only dog and my 14 year old son is learning reems about training and patience! (so am I!!! :oops: ) But if she does wash out totally... she will be relegated to the sofa competing with my wife for the blanket... 'course, I'll be in the yard with another puppy...

I guess a good additional question for this thread would be "how much time and energy are you willing to put into a dog before you decide if it's a washout?" I think that will vary greatly among individuals, but I would be interested in seeing different points of view...
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

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SHORTFAT
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by SHORTFAT » Sun Aug 01, 2010 11:25 am

I see in my last post that I should have also added that timidness is not her only issue. She seems to have a mind of her own and is very good at ignoring commands... The will to please does not seem very strong, but I am attributing alot of that to her early development or lack of it... I hope to see some of it develop the longer we go. :| She is very active pointing birds in the yard and her nose is always working overtime, so who knows.
Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
- Mark Twain.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
-Abraham Lincoln

triplebbirddog
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by triplebbirddog » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:07 pm

sure a dog can be a wash out, but i don't think 4 months is at all an adequate time to judge that. seriously i can't fathom making the call at 4 months whether my dog is going to hunt how i want. i have my hands on numerous gun dogs of various breeds including flushers and pointers and most mature at different ages. I believe that if you are calling a dog a wash out before first bird season is over it is a handler thing. in the akc hunt test i have seen plenty of field trial wash outs do nice jobs in this areana as well as the wild bird fields of south dakota. i have to two 5 month old english setters at my house and one i have had since 8 weeks and one i just recieved to train. same litter way defferent places. now that nesting is pretty much over i will not plant very many birds and start running on wild birds and the dog that is behind might be a head by opening weekend. come on guys give the dog a chance

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ezzy333
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Re: Can a dog be a washout as a gun dog?

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:12 am

triplebbirddog wrote:sure a dog can be a wash out, but i don't think 4 months is at all an adequate time to judge that. seriously i can't fathom making the call at 4 months whether my dog is going to hunt how i want. i have my hands on numerous gun dogs of various breeds including flushers and pointers and most mature at different ages. I believe that if you are calling a dog a wash out before first bird season is over it is a handler thing. in the akc hunt test i have seen plenty of field trial wash outs do nice jobs in this areana as well as the wild bird fields of south dakota. i have to two 5 month old english setters at my house and one i have had since 8 weeks and one i just recieved to train. same litter way defferent places. now that nesting is pretty much over i will not plant very many birds and start running on wild birds and the dog that is behind might be a head by opening weekend. come on guys give the dog a chance

Well said.

Ezzy
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

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