DOG FOODS pros/cons/help

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:28 am

It worries all of us when we here that Diamond foods and others have there contaminations problems...........
Personally I have not heard of it other than the east coast,but can someone help me understand what is ment when Diamond 's label
says(preserved with mixed tocoherols)?

ETHOXYQUIN, BHA and BHT
(Chemical additives used as preservatives. Ethoxyquin is regulated as a pesticide and cannot be added to human food. Many pet foods contain fillers that have little or no nutritional value. Products like feathers, soy, cottonseed hulls, corn cobs, peanut hulls, citrus pulp, screenings, weeds, straw, and cereal by-products.
GENERAL FACTS
From time to time, you have noticed a change in your dog after feeding him or her different batches of the same brand of pet food . Your pet may have diarrhea, increased flatulence, a dull hair coat, intermittent vomiting, or may scratch more often. These are most common symptoms observed over the years, and they all are associated with commercial pet foods.
The common chemicals used to prevent rancidity in pet food are BHA ( butylated hydroxyanisole ) and BHT ( butylated hydroxytoluene ) both known to cause liver and kidney dysfunction. Another fat stabilizer often used is ETHOXYQUIN, suspected of being a cancer- causing agent. Propylene glycol, a cousin to antifreeze, is found in many semimoist dog foods. )

OldSchoolSpringer · Post by **OldSchoolSpringer** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:45 am

Its a form of vitamin E.
My original bag was recalled and now replacement was recalled.

I switched to proplan beef and rice starting saterday.

markj · Post by **markj** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:50 am

Sounds better than mickey Ds

I have been using PMI nutrition. I get it from my feed store. I never used Diamond brand, tried it once, dogs didnt eat it very well.

Sometimes you can get samples of food, then you can see what they eat, check it out first tho.

Ever read the labels on our food? I cannot pronounce some of them words and am sure if I used them as a lad, mom would have tanned my hide.

Wesley Boothe · Post by **Wesley Boothe** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:55 am

I used to use Sportmix, but then tried Diamond as it was easier to get. Was not near as happy with the results. Inconsistant stools, dull coat, lots of dander and the dogs just didnt seem to have as much stamina in the field as they did on Sportmix. Now I am back with Sportmix (met the territory manager at a dog show and he brings it to me at work) and six weeks later the dogs are working and looking great!

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:14 am

Thanks everbody for your input....

I have one dog with a touring pro along with 25 dogs and 30 days ago
they started looseing weight trialing every weekend.

Proplan was contacted and we told to increase amount of food being feed which is more than any other food we have tried.

Went back to Diamond and problem was resolved.I have noticed that from time to time some would have loose bouls feeding Diamond.

shootist · Post by **shootist** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:26 am

I was going to use diamond for my pup, but given the situation I decided to stick with what my breeder uses... Pro Plan large breed puppy. I had also considered Nutro.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:53 pm

Gary,

Many pet foods contain fillers that have little or no nutritional value. Products like feathers, soy, cottonseed hulls, corn cobs, peanut hulls, citrus pulp, screenings, weeds, straw, and cereal by-products.

Why would you post something like that. We have discussed this many times and the whole premis of fillers just doesn't exist in doog foods. If you see feathers mentioned in a food I will quarantee it said hydrolized feather meal. I doubt you have ever seen it but it is a viable protien source, just not a real high quality one. Soy has been and continues to be the main vegatable source of protien in the world. Plentiful, cheap, and extremely high quality for you, your animals, and your dog. Cottonseed hulls are an excellent feed for cattle but are not used in any dog food. Out of the rest of the ingredients listed citrus pulp is the only one having much feed value but it along with the other items are not used that i know of. The other items not only aren't used but may be against the law to use in any application.

I don't k now what your point was about different batches of the same feed so I won't comment till I know what you were getting at.

I oftemn wonder why it is if someone wants to know about their car or house or gun they usually go to the manufacturer to find out the info. But with dog food we automatically think the company that manufactures it is trying in every way possible to sell you something that isn't fit for your dog to eat. That just doesn't happen. The formulas companies use are tested before hand and then are tested afterwards by the state and other agencies to insure they are adewquate to provide the advertised nutrition.

Feeds are different mainly so companies can develop a market and fill a need. But all are adequate to keep your dog healthy. And if your dog likes the feed and is doing well then it is as good as it gets for the dog. In the meantime the owners can sit around and discuss which food is best just like they do over which gun, car, or house is better.

Ezzy

Fowlplay · Post by **Fowlplay** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:34 pm

I think what Gary was refering to in "different batches" being inconsistent is this; some dog food companies buy their raw materials from the cheapest sources they can find through out the year. This is where the inconsistency comes into play. Lower quality raw materials will in fact have an effect on our dogs. This is quite common in lower priced feed. Other companies buy their products from the same source continuously, to insure the quality is always the same. These are most often..the "premium" foods.

There are indeed many fillers in dog foods today. Corn and other grains do have nutritional value, but for the most part are fillers. Soy based proteins are not readily digestable for k9's, even though for humans..they are more beneficial.

Gary...any top brand premium like say.. Purina Pro Plan is going to be a very good food. One you can place your trust in.

Good luck,

Rick

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:06 pm

Fowlplay,

I have been involved in the manufacture of dog foods for many many years and your assessment of the corn and soy products just isn't right. And the cheaper feeds are made by some of the biggest companies and buy ingredients just like everyone else. A small family owned company might buy different quality ingredients but I don't know of a single company here in the midwest that would qualify.

While there could be minor inconsistances between different loads of ingredients that are purchased they have to all meet the same requirements so any difference is very minor. I quess I want to know what is a lower quality ingredient? I see the same ingredients listed first on many of the high priced feeds as I do on the cheaper ones. Is the corn in the Euk feeds better than the corn in the cheaper feeds? In what way is rice a better feed than corn? They are both sources of carbs but corn has more othe qualities. Saw a high priced feed today on the shelf of the store I was buying feed in and it says no corn, no soy, no chicken by-products. What do you think it had in it?

There is no feed company putting fillers in their feed. Everyone one of them want to stay in business and the only way to do that is to sell you a feed that works well and you will keep buying. Some try to sell cheap and have more volume and some with limited manufacturing capabilities try to sell high, make more per bag, and try to use ingredients that allow you to feed a little less and still stay in business. Supposed high quality feeds are good but most are no better for your dog than the cheaper feeds. Eating less of a high calorie feed is not always better for your dog. It usually does help during the time the dog is working hard and you can get a few more calories into the dog but few of our dogs are working hard for an extended lenght of time. Hence we see many more dogs over fed and over fat that we ever do dogs that are fed enough and are too thin.

Ezzy

Fowlplay · Post by **Fowlplay** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:33 pm

Ezzy, I appreciate your comments but,...I too have been involved with a dog food company for several years and...I don't want to get into a long, drawn out discussion about ingredients anymore than you do. As for proteins..some are more (readily digestable) than others. For dogs, soy is a very poor choice for a protein scource because the K-9 intestinal tract has not evolved to digest and absorb this protein quickly enough for it to benefit them. Most will pass right through the dog. Corn is the same way, but it does have more nutritional benefit if it is present in the form of "Gluten Meal". Corn gluten meal is a very good source of protein...and it's digestable. Whole ground corn is not!

Soy and whole ground corn are in fact fillers. Other grains to some extent are fillers too. The foods with higher percentages of these ingredients are the cheaper foods and more of the food passes through the animal with very little nutritional value. Hence the term fillers. These cheaper foods with high percentages of whole corn and soy also, very frequently, cause (piles) or loose stool because the animal can't digest the product.

Again, I'm not here for a debate, these are facts that are easily searched.

Rick

gary · Post by **gary** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:21 pm

Interesting Read;

More On Dog Food Go To.....
http://www.lucythewonderdog.com/the-dog-food-report.pdf

Northern_Hunting_Mom · Post by **Northern_Hunting_Mom** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:09 am

I've seen some so-called good dog foods with visible chunks of corn.... from both ends! BUT, if the corn is ground fine, it is an excellent source of protein and Omega 3s. It should not be the first ingredient, that should always be a meat meal. The list should also be as specific as possible. Look ofr "chicken meal" instead of "poultry meal." The company can change the amounts of what type of protein and that's where occasional unexplained diarrhea can happen. Tallow belongs in old candles and NOT dog food. Beef is a poor protein choice because it is harder to digest and has much more allergy problems than chicken.

Allergy problems are most often from the protein and not from fats. If you're feeding a lamb, fish or duck formula to get away from chicken (or whatever allergen) then read the list carefully. Iams is famous for having a lamb and rice formula that has chicken protein and corn in it.

There are many other grain sources that work well. Barley, oats (especially god for allergy relief), rice and spelt are the ones I remember well. None of them have the protein and digestibility (again if its finely ground) of corn. Too much corn can cause excitability and hyperactivity. That's where a fish and oatmeal would work well. The protein levels should still be high enough to allow hard huntin bird dogs to excel.
http://www.eaglepack.com
One of the brothers who started the business ran GSPs and pointers. They know their stuff.

ViniferaVizslas · Post by **ViniferaVizslas** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:32 am

I make my own food with quality ingredients suitable for human consumption.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:24 am

ViniferaVizslas wrote:I make my own food with quality ingredients suitable for human consumption.

So do I. My vet hates it, but he'll come around. (Nice web page, you sure got the best of both worlds there)

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DOG FOODS pros/cons/help

DOG FOODS pros/cons/help

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