Mean Dog

[Pryor Creek Okie]

My two year old pointer has attacked two dogs in the past week. I don't know what has gotten in to her. She has been around other dogs her whole life without incident. I agreed to pay the neighbor's $400 vet bill, so I'm not in trouble, but I'm afraid to wait and see what happens next. What would you do?

[Munster]

Is it a connecting neighbor? Is there fence fighting involved? Is this just happening on your property or off and on?

[Pryor Creek Okie]

Both incidents happened in my yard. The first was with a strange dog, and the second was with a puppy that she has been around quite a bit.

[sully511]

Why was your neighbor's dog in your yard? Are all dogs involved female? If so, she can have same sex aggression. Or it could also be that she has reached maturity and is now territorial.

[dudleysmith]

she could be coming into heat....i have saw alot of females get aggressive around that time.

[Birddogz]

I was thinking the same thing. Coming into heat. Regardless, that behavior is inexcusable. When she attacks another dog, roll her on her back and make her be submissive to the dog she attacked.

My friend had a lab like this. We set him up several times by bringing in dogs he didn't like. When his tail went up in a dominant move, and he went forward to fight we would hold the shock collar on 5 and scream NO! He really did not like the charge, and after about 3-4 sessions of electro-shock therapy he would sit next to his master's side when another dog came into his yard. Never had another problem with him after that.

[Steve007]

Presuming she has not been spayed, it could also be a false pregnancy. When was she last in season? Squeeze her nipples and see if she's putting out milk (might look watery). Plenty of normally nice bitches will act this way in a false pregancy. Try to do a little more analysis before you assume she's just getting "mean" and start thinking of correction.

I do agree that a neighbor's dog shouldn't just be wandering into your yard. Living conditions vary, but it would definitely not be ok with me. My yard is fenced (wood), which makes sense for a lot of reasons. imo. Actually, I wouldn't fault a dog for defending his yard against an off-lead intruder, though with a fenced yard, it's an academic point.

What I would do is is.. fence the yard. In wood, not chain link. And tell the neighbor to keep his dog in his own yard.

[phermes1]

Take her to the vet for an exam. It's possible she's not feeling well and is lashing out at any dog that gets too close. I had a friend's dog acting similarly; she ended up having a severe bladder infection. Once it was cleared up, she returned to normal.

[birddog1968]

I'd be leary of using a shock collar....Ive seen it turn the fight up 10 notches.

Rolling on back and holding by throat is much better option IMHO.

Check your dog over as well and make sure she isn't hurting anywhere, check her ears for infection......I would try and rule medical issues out.
That said, sounds like territorial behavior.

[Sharon]

You don't really know a dog until it's 2. That's when it's need for dominance etc. really shows.

[djswizz]

The first sign of aggression, immediately put her in a submissive state. On the, controlling her, etc. You're the pack leader and if you don't establish rank, she'll try to outrank you. You're not the dominant one and she knows it. Otherwise this won't happen.

[AzDoggin]

Agree - no e-collar - pain can elevate aggression!

Also agree completely about ruling out any medical cause.

See if you can catch some Dog Whisperer episodes (Cesar Millan). Nearly every one is dealing with dog-on-dog aggression. If there is no medical cause, your dog thinks she has to protect the property because she is the leader there. Needs to learn that it's YOU, not her, whose job that is.

Here a a couple of articles that may apply (alot more on the Leerburg.com website - Q and A's, etc.):

http://leerburg.com/pdf/howtobreakupdogfight.pdf

http://leerburg.com/pdf/dealingwithaggressivedog.pdf

[Pryor Creek Okie]

Thanks for the replies. I had a long talk with Yawallac about this a few nights ago. I think that the first incident can be attributed, at least in part, to the change of environment. It happened on our second day in the new house. The neighbor lady walked into my yard to introduce herself. Her dog followed her, and all heck broke loose. I think she was just being territorial.

[prairiefirepointers]

Wow.. this really hits home today.

The dog I put down today had very simialr triats to this dog. "Brownie" Hated my other Female Brood Bitch "Jenny". However, Brownie was fine around other dogs, and hunted fine with them, ect. Just had an inherent hatred for my other female. So, I never hunted them together, or ran them together, or anything of the sort. Brownie (the aggressor) was in the house with my 2 males, and Jenny was kenneled outside with a run leading into the garage, so I never gave it a second thought. However, I should add that the minuite she became aggressive, regardless of the situation, I had her spayed and removed from the breeding program.. Which hurt. She was very well bred.

One day, I was in Guymon Oklahoma on business, and got a panicked phone call from my wife. Brownie had dug into Jenny's pen and attacked her.. for no reason whatsoever. Jenny lost 3 of her 4 bottom teeth in the fight, and had to have her gums sewed up and numerous other things. I told my wife to take Brownie and drop her off at the vet and have them put her down. My wife talked me out of this until I could come home and not make a rash decison. So, I agreed and subsequently gave her another chance.

That story happened about a year and a half ago. Brownie showed no evidence of ever trying to get to her again or anything. However, I always kept an eye on her the best I could. Brownie was good and gentle with my daughter who is now 11 months old. However I NEVER turned my back on Brownie when in the presence of my daughter. Not gonna tempt fate. I think maybe something was wrong with her tho.. I always joked that if a dog could have Bi-Polar disorder, she must have it. She would buddy up to my friends one minuite, let them rub her belly and make over her, and the next time bite them.?? Weird. I started keeping the dogs in the mudroom and out of the main part of the house after my daughter was born, and we had also remodeled. There wasn't much of an window of oppertunity for her to do something aggressive toward Jenny or anyone else, and I thought we were free and clear.

I was so wrong. Today, I was loading my dogs up to run. My buddy stopped by to chit chat and bs. I said I got 2 dogs loaded and I got to get Brownie as she's going crazy, thinks im gona leave her. I was talking and putting stuff in the top storage of my box, when he says "Man, that dog is red!" I was like WTF? So, I stepped out in front of jennys pen and Brownie had clumb the fence into her pen and both dogs were blood from head to toe, tip to tail. I had to pry Brownies jaws off my other dog with my hands. I drug brownie out, all the while trying to get away to get back at Jenny. I took her out back and put her down. It was quick. actually much quicker than when I had my lab euthenized. He fought it. this was so quick. I took one dog to the vet and left her until tomorrow, then we burried Brownie on the way home.

Its been a real sad day. Hope this doesn't happen to anyone else. I cried like a baby and hated to do it. I have a wife and child and other dogs to protect. You can't re-home a dog like that either, for ethical and liability reasons. My options were slim and none and slim had left town. I just ran out of forgiveness this time.

[Birddogz]

You are a good man with a great heart. I understand. Never had it happen like that, but if I did, it would be very hard. God's speed Brownie.

[tn red]

In my experience once a dog gets a taste of it just a matter of time before they try again.With what ive saw it never was a mean dog just dogs that go off the deep end for no reason.Sorry Jess i know its not easy to do man.

[AzDoggin]

Jess, you did the right thing. Couldn't have been easy, but you did what the family and kennel leader had to do.

[prairiefirepointers]

Husker,

Thank you for your kind words. I am at peace with what I had to do. It was one of the hardest things i've ever had to do, but It had to be done. However, now I have to grieve the loss of my dog. That' is what I am struggling with.

I wasn't going to share what happened... I was afraid I might be judged, or second guessed, etc. But when I read this post, I knew I had to post this. If it helps one person, then this wasn't all in vain. Brownie was such a good dog. I am just devestated that it finally came to this.

If I didn't have other dogs depending on me, I'd probably chuck the conditioning regimen out the window and skip bird season, but I can't. And, I know Brownie wouldn't want that either. Just a tremendous tragedy and loss to overcome. However, the GDF support means alot.

We (forum users) may bicker and argue and not meet eye to eye on every topic, but we all share a mutual love of our dogs. Thanks to all who have PM'd me and posted kind words.

Jess

[SHORTFAT]

Dang! that stinks. Sorry for the loss & I hope your other dog is ok. Can't say I'd have done anything different. That's too bad.

[prairiefirepointers]

Thanks. (man I feel guilty, I didn't mean to hijack this thread) Jenny is doing well. I picked her up from the vet a couple hours ago. She got some antibiotics and some pain meds. Jenny was very glad to see me. She rode up front in the cab with me instead of in the box. I loved her up before we set out for home. I was afraid to pet her anywhere but the top of her head and back. She litterally had bite wounds from head to tail. I've seen paper targets I've patterned my shotgun with that had less holes in em than she did. It was really sad. She looked like she had been spray painted with red paint. It is a vision that wrenches my gut, and I'll have with me a long time, unfortunately.

When we arrived at home, she lept from the truck and took off with her nose to the ground. Major improvement from a dog that went in barely able to walk. I am very pleased thus far. I prayed alot.

[AzDoggin]

Thanks. (man I feel guilty, I didn't mean to hijack this thread) Jenny is doing well. I picked her up from the vet a couple hours ago. She got some antibiotics and some pain meds. Jenny was very glad to see me. She rode up front in the cab with me instead of in the box. I loved her up before we set out for home. I was afraid to pet her anywhere but the top of her head and back. She litterally had bite wounds from head to tail. I've seen paper targets I've patterned my shotgun with that had less holes in em than she did. It was really sad. She looked like she had been spray painted with red paint. It is a vision that wrenches my gut, and I'll have with me a long time, unfortunately.

When we arrived at home, she lept from the truck and took off with her nose to the ground. Major improvement from a dog that went in barely able to walk. I am very pleased thus far. I prayed alot.

Dogs are so tough, it's unbelievable. I had a dog get chewed up once pretty bad. Didn't take her long to get back to normal. I think she forgot all about the incident long, long before I ever did. I suspect you'll find it the same.

Feel for you and your family, man. You folks have been through quite an ordeal.

[Sharon]

I'm very sorry Jess. I believe you did the right thing.

[rollick]

A sad tale, Jess, but you were correct in your actions. And so glad that Jenny is happily home! Dogs: they both make and break our hearts, but none of us here could live without 'em.

[Sharon]

Thanks for the replies. I had a long talk with Yawallac about this a few nights ago. I think that the first incident can be attributed, at least in part, to the change of environment. It happened on our second day in the new house. The neighbor lady walked into my yard to introduce herself. Her dog followed her, and all heck broke loose. I think she was just being territorial.

Well at least you don't have to worry about the neighbor bothering you anymore.

I've only had 2 of my dogs get into it once , and that was right after a bath when both were wet and one was being towel dried.
Never did figure that one out.

[birddogger]

You made the right decision, as hard as it was. It has nothing to do with forgiving, you had an unpredictable and dangerous dog that had to be put down. I respect what you did before a real tragedy happened.

Charlie