Are there any events in winter?

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Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:22 am

Are there any Bird dog games played in the winter, north of Oklahoma? I was just curious if such a thing existed? If not, it seems we are testing dogs in only fall and spring. I know many, including myself certainly hunt in the winter a lot.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:12 am

It doesn't appear by your posts that you are participating in any games, so when you say we are testing I assume you mean the folks that are committing their time and effort to create a venue that can be financially supported to serve the various breeds and ultimately the hunting community? There are venues that run consistently north of Oklahoma in the winter time and the information on them is readily available on the various websites should your interest truly be piqued.

There are a few points to keep in mind regarding field trials. Many trialers enjoy hunting as well and try to schedule their "games' at times when they aren't hunting. Putting on an event poses some logistical challenges that are not impervious to financial constraints and sociological compromises. In other words, people have to be able to get dogs, horse and equipment to the grounds in large numbers, many trialers are older or are couples and don't care to camp in two feet of snow ... and why should they?

There is always transparency in your agenda, do you truly believe that a dog that performs at the highest level in condition "A" would fail if you manipulated the conditions enough to try and make it happen? If you do that is just limited experience or sheer ignorance. Arguments start when people with a specific agenda and limited capacity for learning and two-way communication use a medium to try and justify or sensationalize their position. I do not believe that should be the agenda of a forum.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:37 am

I'm simply asking the question. To think that hunting young birds in September and October present the same challenges is just plain silly. Scenting conditions, the behavior of birds, the location of birds, the temperatures, terrain (snow banks), etc. all change in the late season. I'm not saying that dogs that perform well early will not perform well in late season. I'm wondering why they aren't at least testing. If you are evaluating a hunting dog, why not evaluate them in various conditions? There seems to be such a lack of tolerance for anyone questioning the status quo. I hunt a ton in the snow, it won't hurt you. :lol: I'm curious if there are such events, that is all. The rooster in October is not the same in December and January. The Ruffed grouse of early fall is not the same in December. I know that it takes a much more experienced and talented dogs to be able to handle birds that are far wiser and experienced themselves. Why not allow smart birds to test our best dogs? Seems to me that a football team that plays weaker competition isn't doing itself any favors come BCS time. Test dogs in all situations in which they are asked to do so in the field. That is the whole point, is it not? Early and late. I just don't see how doing so could possibly be bad for the advancement of bird dogs. If outdoorsman can't handle a little snow and cold, maybe they should stay inside. :wink:
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:43 am

Why don't they play BCS bowl games or the Superbowl in the snow?

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by dan v » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:45 am

Says the guy that has probably never helped staff a organized bird dog event.

As in the other thread....you want the perfect system? You get out there and put together a group of like minded people....git'er done.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:48 am

Look Birddogz, you've proposed all sorts of whacked out alternative venues. You seem to think that you have a higher IQ than the hard-working people that are already out there putting on bird dog games.

Get out there, put on the kind of event you propose, and see if it works. In other words, put up or shut up.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:58 am

You are not simply asking a question. The National Championship at Ames consistently begins its day in the teens, sometimes single digits and can end in the 70's. Those are dramatically changing conditions for dogs. The Idaho and Nevada trials run in the winter are often run in places that can and do consistently record the lowest temperatures in the nation for a given day...and for those that wish to limit the people who can participate and support a venue, thank goodness they generally lack the leadership skills to have control of anything, as this would surely accelerate the demise of shooting sports.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:35 am

They certainly play many games in the NFL in the cold. In fact, some of the most famous.

I knew it would happen, merely mention a change in the status quo and people come after you. You who respond to me negatively are the MOST unscientific people in the world. Do you understand what scientific method even states? WHY WOULD YOU ATTACK SOMEONE THAT MENTIONS TESTING IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS? The fact that it doesn't exist doesn't mean it shouldn't. It seems to be such a big deal that I do it myself. If a scientist discovers a bacteria resistant antibiotic, should he be in charge of manufacturing it as well? Does the engineer that comes up with blue prints actually build the bridge? No, and no. What is wrong with new ideas and disussion? There is no reason to be negative about change. Change is the only constant in LIFE! To say that there are ways to make something better in no way detracts from its current merit. It seems many of you will come up with endless excuses as to why things can't change. Thank God people at NASA don't take your same doom and gloom attitude to improvement/study. If they did we would have never gone into space, have GPS collars, microwave ovens, etc.

Again, because many will not get it, TO SAY THERE ARE WAYS TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS IN NO WAY DETRACTS FROM CURRENT MERIT!
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:02 pm

You aren't challenging the status quo, you can't, you are ignorant as to what thw status quo is. Science requires a knowledge base you clearly lack. Those who are challenging your suppositions largely have documented credentials in a much broader sense than your own. They are licensed guides, field trial judges, breeders, professional trainers and handlers, etc...
You who respond to me negatively are the MOST unscientific people in the world. Do you understand what scientific method even states? WHY WOULD YOU ATTACK SOMEONE THAT MENTIONS TESTING IN DIFFERENT CONDITIONS?
So you are suggesting that someone who makes a statment such as the one above which includes the proclamation "you are the most unscientific people in the world" would have a better grasp of scientific methodology, which by any definition requires a grasp of both logic and subject matter knowledge? There are any number of venues that are created, changed and modified constantly to fit what the participants feel is the most logical way to test a dog for their needs. Your insistence that their is not is the height of ignorance, you have never participated, read the rules or followed the progress of AKC, AFTCA, AF, NSTRA, NAVHDA, BDC and heaven knows what else is out there, yet you demand an explanation of why it doesn't fit whatever is rolling around in your head?

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:04 pm

There are already plenty of events out there that run in all kinds of conditions. I've run in everything from a blizzard to 95 degree, humid heat.

Get out there and join in. Till then, you're going to sound like an outsider taking pot shots.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by DGFavor » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:14 pm

Are there any events in winter?
Winter is when you really test 'em hunting 'em of course...weather permitting! :lol: Some of the coldest, miserable conditions I've ever turned dogs loose have been at field trials - you pretty much gotta run the trial when it's scheduled and Mother Nature doesn't take pity on personal agendas and schedules - even yours Birddogz! :lol: :lol:

Here's some shots from end of the season January hunting trips, interestingly these dogs are all 1 hour horseback champ. winners too, which is wierd they'd be able to be out bagging seasoned, smart end of the season birds..??? These are balmy days compared to some of the miserable times I've spent in the saddle competing at Milepost 9, Sunnyside, and Fossil back in the day - cripes, I had my trailer door iced solid shut in the morning once at Fossil, OR to where I had to bust myself out just to get to my first brace of the morning - I definitely wouldn't have bothered trying to hunt on any of those days but that's when the trial is so you put 'em down and test 'em against the competition weather be damned!! :wink:

Image

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This dog is pointing January huns...and qualified for the Nat'l Ch. at Ames this February...WTH???
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See ya' out there!

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:17 pm

DG,

Those are awesome pictures...gives a man chills. Only two more weeks to wait...I am sick of chasing mountain quail around the thickets.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:48 pm

Birddogz,

Change is often ballyhooed .... as long as its happening to someone else and you are just the architect or the observer. It's a lot different when the world doesn't revolve around you and you actually have to do the leg work. For some folks that's a real change.

Be the organizer & worker bee .... demonstrate your own willingness to embrace change ... subject yourself to the risk of failure and negative feedback .... get off the sidelines and git er done.

Of course if you're going to hold it in ND on wild birds in Dec. you may have clear skies, a light breeze & little to no snow, you may have clouds, 25 mph winds with two & a half feet of snow on the ground or you may get a blizzard during the trial. A couple of years ago, at the end of the season, I had to hire a payloader to remove over four feet of snow that had drifted in front of our hunting camp so we could hit the end of the season. Many of the section line roads were impassable. Frozen water pipes in the travel trailers & water buckets really suck at a trial. Diesel trucks that won't start without being plugged in during cold weather, fun for all! Don't let the barriers get you down, where there's a will there's a way.

You know if you set this up right as a super fun event you might even get a few people to the first annual "The Dakota Dog Daze of December". Good luck and godspeed!
Mark

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Dave Quindt » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:01 pm

Birddogz wrote: The Ruffed grouse of early fall is not the same in December. I know that it takes a much more experienced and talented dogs to be able to handle birds that are far wiser and experienced themselves.
Plenty of cover dog trials held in the spring; them March birds are far wiser and experienced than those in December.

FWIW,
Dave

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:23 pm

What some of you do is put words in my mouth. I never said a dog that hunted in FT couldn't handle late season birds. In fact I said the exact opposite of that. Read please. I asked if there were trials in the winter. It is a simple question. I think that the answer is no, from what I gather.

Would any one be interested in one?

I honestly don't understand the hostility by some of you. By mentioning a different time, I am some how offending you? :roll: I don't get it. FT guys are so defensive about any change. Almost similar to Napoleon syndrome. Relax, we're just talking.

By the way Chukar, I am a physician, sold my practice, and now teach physics, Advanced Biology, Chemistry, Anatomy and phys. in high school and junior colleges. I understand scientific method perfectly. It doesn't take a stretch to ask if there are events held in the winter.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by V-John » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:43 pm

Bird Dogz,

A couple of things, I really like your signiture.

Second, around here, in Kansas, the trials are usually stopped not because of the snow or whatever, it's because of hunting season. Our last trial is a week before the season opens. Most guys are hunting.... And a lot of the trial grounds, are owned by land owners who either want to hunt their land, or let others hunt it, or whatever. The hunting season goes until Jan 31, and then soon after that, in the spring, the trial season starts.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by DGFavor » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:46 pm

What some of us are saying is what you are proposing already occurs, and has occurred for decades, to help shape and produce the dogs we enjoy today. Like Mark says, if you wanna tweak it and come up with something a little different, do so, send out the invite and see who bites.

I know it's the WWW and easy to be misunderstood, but I think judging by the response and my own interpretation, there was an undertone of smugness/condescention to your original post that prompted the responses you got. Add about 5 smiley faces to everything - sort of works for me!! :D :D :D :D :D

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by AzDoggin » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:49 pm

Come on, Birdogz, just because this is a DISCUSSION forum doesn't mean that all opinions are acceptable.

If this forum were a football game, several would be ejected for repetitively piling on.

All I can figure is the possiblility that birddog trialers are ultra-competitive folks who enjoy debating about working with dogs as much as working with dogs, and therefore, discussions escalate rapidly into debates (or worse).

There's still an awful lot of dog knowledge on here if a person can tolerate the insults, patronizations, and generally rude treatment that tends to come along with it.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:21 pm

This is what is so frustrating. I'm not trying to be smug at all! I'm trying to ask if trials occur in the winter. DG if they do, then thank you for the information. I have seen many trials, but have never seen any that run in the winter. I was just curious. Many times on here I am misunderstood completely. I had to start an entire thread on things I love about EPs, and the weaknesses of my own breed to satisfy some on here. I don't mind discussing anything on here, but please don't take things I say out of context. I thought that a forum with as many FT guys would be informative, not angry. If there are such events, where are they? I would really be interested in attending a winter trial. I would like to see wild pheasants in the winter pursued by elite dogs. No smugness, reality, I want to see it, I think it would be fun. I have no "agenda" as some have suggested. Just because I disagree with some on here does not mean I am entertaining an "agenda".
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:39 pm

by Birddogz
FT guys are so defensive about any change. Almost similar to Napoleon syndrome.
Wikpedia
Napoleon complex is an informal term describing an alleged type of inferiority complex
Professor Birddogz,

I assume you mean a Napoleon Complex? Your question was purposely provocative. There are literally dozens of trials in the winter including most of invitational types that are cumulative of a years work on a circuit. Would you suggest that you are so enlightened that others are to do your bidding?
by Birddogz
If a scientist discovers a bacteria resistant antibiotic, should he be in charge of manufacturing it as well? Does the engineer that comes up with blue prints actually build the bridge? No, and no.
I am not a doctor of anything but I have been a hunter since I could walk and I am a fledgling field trialer. I can tell you this however, if a Napoleon Complex exists it is not with those that attempt to clarify your forever mobil points.Please just take note of the challenges you have thrown down in previous posts. As a physician you know that a Napoleon Complex is a form of inferiority complex, what in your question/point or credentials would a dog person have to feel inferior about?

I think I will take my leave of this discussion. My objective for participating at all is two-fold; first to learn, and secondarily to pass along advice or encouragement to others in hopes that something positive and unifying in a sport and way of life hangs on a little longer. that is put at risk when words are bantied over aimless points.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Mon Sep 27, 2010 4:40 pm

I'm not aware of any trials run on wild pheasants in winter (near or beyond the end of the season) but I'm willing to be enlightened. :D
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:06 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by Birddogz
FT guys are so defensive about any change. Almost similar to Napoleon syndrome.
Wikpedia
Napoleon complex is an informal term describing an alleged type of inferiority complex
Professor Birddogz,

I assume you mean a Napoleon Complex? Your question was purposely provocative. There are literally dozens of trials in the winter including most of invitational types that are cumulative of a years work on a circuit. Would you suggest that you are so enlightened that others are to do your bidding?
by Birddogz
If a scientist discovers a bacteria resistant antibiotic, should he be in charge of manufacturing it as well? Does the engineer that comes up with blue prints actually build the bridge? No, and no.
I am not a doctor of anything but I have been a hunter since I could walk and I am a fledgling field trialer. I can tell you this however, if a Napoleon Complex exists it is not with those that attempt to clarify your forever mobil points.Please just take note of the challenges you have thrown down in previous posts. As a physician you know that a Napoleon Complex is a form of inferiority complex, what in your question/point or credentials would a dog person have to feel inferior about?

I think I will take my leave of this discussion. My objective for participating at all is two-fold; first to learn, and secondarily to pass along advice or encouragement to others in hopes that something positive and unifying in a sport and way of life hangs on a little longer. that is put at risk when words are bantied over aimless points.
I have no idea why FT guys would have an inferiority complex, that is what makes it so strange. A question should not be taken with such venom.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:02 pm

Birddogz,

In good faith I offer the following:

We all have different communication styles and regulars on here build a body of work, a track record so to speak. Certain people we've either pleased or pissed off in the past either by a single event or by the body of our work. Obviously after our communications have ticked off more than one or two people, self-examination is advised. As you are aware often it isn't what is said as much as how it's said. Some folks take the attitude that there is nothing wrong with them or how they have communicated, it's the rest of the world that's off-kilter. Others work at improving their communication skills to the point where there are few or no negative reactions to their posts any longer. Once a poster has primed a few of the pumps around the forum it doesn't take much to get them spouting off pretty quickly. It's a lot easier to build bridges than to keep digging oneself out of holes.

None of us are perfect. Personally I have to back off once in a while and think about what I can do to smooth off the rough edges. Unfortunately high I.Q.s often aren't as good as high E.I.s (Emotional Intelligence) when it comes to working and communicating with others. This is one reason so many doctors (high IQ introverts) wonder why they aren't the head of a major corporation (high EI - extroverts) making the really big bucks. :lol:

See, I didn't figure out how to communicate the above without it sounding like I'm preaching. Touche' !! :lol:

Whatever you decide, good luck & good hunting!
Mark

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:32 pm

I hear you. High I.Q. rarely equates to success in financial rewards. (thankfully, I have been lucky.) I am used to debating for fun, some seem to feel a need to be angry after a debate. I think of it as an exercise. I'm not trying to be mean, just enjoying discussion. Why not debate, then laugh about it? People on this forum do not seem to see it the same way. :wink: They see it as an attack on their self.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:07 pm

Birddogz wrote:I hear you. High I.Q. rarely equates to success in financial rewards. (thankfully, I have been lucky.) I am used to debating for fun, some seem to feel a need to be angry after a debate. I think of it as an exercise. I'm not trying to be mean, just enjoying discussion. Why not debate, then laugh about it? People on this forum do not seem to see it the same way. :wink: They see it as an attack on their self.
Most of us are not the close relatives or buddies of a lot of the other folks on the forum so we don't start with any underlying bond. There's no built up trust and worst of all we can't see body language so we can't tell if the poster is serious, just wise-cracking for fun or what. So now, knowing that other's may take something as a serious personal insult or attack rather than just a fun debate we have a couple of choices. Keep poking 'em with what they feel is a sharp stick or cool it. Debates held in private can stimulate some good healthy examination of a subject. However, when one debates in public, one automatically triggers a competitive response. It's really hard not to have one side get the better of the other side in any debate. Winners feel good, losers feel public humiliation, real or imagined ... it doesn't matter. Many folks are unable to debate on an unemotional level. I submit it's a dicey proposition in public. However, the forum wouldn't be very stimulating without some of the, shall we say, longer threads. :wink:

Anyway, as everyone knows here I'm far from perfect either but I do have something in common with most everyone, I put my pants on one leg at a time also. :lol:
Mark

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:34 pm

Me too. I debate in fun. Not blood. :roll: Come hunt with me, let's have a good time! I am always open to fun! I admire all good bird dogs, and cherish all good hunting buds. :D
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by fuzznut » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:00 pm

Here on the east coast there are some trials run in December, then we quit. The holidays are probably one reason things slow down, but the weather and travel conditions certainly play a part in it. Travel on east coast roads with snow and ice is neither fun nor safe. Riding horses in icy conditions are a hospital trip waiting to happen.

Things start up again the end of February where many a trial has been cancelled due to a snow storm. If people can't get there, there's not much sense in holding a trial.

Does that count as holding trials in winter?
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:29 pm

Birddogz wrote: Come hunt with me, let's have a good time! I am always open to fun! I admire all good bird dogs, and cherish all good hunting buds. :D
I think this is how most of us feel and it's what we have in common. Actually I think many of us who don't seem to get along too well on the forum would get along just great out in the real world (the great outdoors), training, watching dogs work, hunting and swapping lies ... um ... I meant to say, swapping stories. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 pm

I agree! That is why this anger is strange to me. I'm honestly not trying to piss people off, I'm trying to discuss bird dog evaluation with knowledgeable folks. Any person on this forum that wants to hunt birds in the vicinity of Garrison,ND is welcome. I'm on this forum for friends, not foes. We'll have a grand old time. :D
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:38 pm

fuzznut wrote:Here on the east coast there are some trials run in December, then we quit. The holidays are probably one reason things slow down, but the weather and travel conditions certainly play a part in it. Travel on east coast roads with snow and ice is neither fun nor safe. Riding horses in icy conditions are a hospital trip waiting to happen.

Things start up again the end of February where many a trial has been cancelled due to a snow storm. If people can't get there, there's not much sense in holding a trial.

Does that count as holding trials in winter?
Fuzz
Yes it counts, thank you for your input.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by AzDoggin » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:41 pm

BigShooter wrote:
Birddogz wrote: Come hunt with me, let's have a good time! I am always open to fun! I admire all good bird dogs, and cherish all good hunting buds. :D
I think this is how most of us feel and it's what we have in common. Actually I think many of us who don't seem to get along too well on the forum would get along just great out in the real world (the great outdoors), training, watching dogs work, hunting and swapping lies ... um ... I meant to say, swapping stories. :lol: :lol:
Don't leave me out. Nothing better than hunting (trialing, training, whatever) with good dogs and friends.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Wagonmaster » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:37 pm

Aside from the "picking an argument" nature of this thread, it is a question posed to suggest that there are no field trials during the winter months, and that is just factually wrong. Our OP could go buy a subscription to the American Field and find lots of trials through the winter months if he cared to get an answer.

It also misses that fact that all the people who trial, and all the handlers, are hunters, and we gotta have some time to go hunt. My pro, for example, is going to spend the time from the GSPCA Nationals until January, hunting quail. The guy who did the initial training on my dog, a great pro and trainer, Greg Dixon, also is going to be in Texas, hunting birds and working dogs. I get to have my trial dog back and we go out to ND where we hunt until the season closes in January, snow is sometimes 4' deep.

Its a setup. Either we run all year long and don't take time to hunt ( "trialers are not hunters"), and we dearly love to hunt, or we don't run parts of the year and therefore don't test the dogs when the weather is bad. Either way, guys like this one are just going to come up with arguments.

Can't tell you how many trials I have been at where we were riding in the snow, or in heavy rains and flooding. The NGSPA Nationals in Feb. a couple of years ago were mostly wiped out by snow that caused extensive flooding on the course. We ran through the snow, that wasn't the problem. It was creeks we can usually ford on horseback that were now 20' deep that sorta caused a problem.

The pro handlers basically live outdoors most of the year, their home is a trailer and the office is whatever part of the country they happen to be in at the time. The weather never stops them, not even snow and freeze, although the pipes freezing in the rigs is a little inconvenient.

Come on guy, man up and get out with us.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:42 pm

I don't know where the paranoia comes from. The way to answer me is "Yes, there are trials in the winter, and here is a list of them...." That is all I am asking.
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by dan v » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:28 pm

Birddogz wrote:I don't know where the paranoia comes from. The way to answer me is "Yes, there are trials in the winter, and here is a list of them...." That is all I am asking.
Oh, I think you do.
Dan

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:40 pm

I'm serious, you guys are certifiably paranoid. Do you hear "voices" telling you I'm evil? :roll: Don't read into things, read what is written/typed. Honestly, it is very creepy. Stick to what is in a post, don't play "Frasier Crane.......I'm listening". :lol:
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:22 pm

Gentlemen,

Can we get a cease fire here? Much as I enjoy witty repartee, I'm not lovin' this. Lets all just stay on the straight and narrow path for a while. I know watering it down and keepin it cool is not as much fun as pooring gasoline on a fire but at some point I'd like to see some maturity win the day. I can't see much if any difference between starting inflammatory debates and starting fights. At this point I don't really care who started it how many posts or threads ago. It takes two or more to tangle and as the saying goes two wrongs don't equal one right.

Thanks! :)
Mark

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:33 pm

I'm in full agreement. I have no desire to argue, can we please discuss the topic? Where can I find winter FTs in ND,SD,MN? Or, perhaps early spring, when it is still cold. I'm really interested. I think they would be more interesting than the early fall ones. Just from the standpoint of educated birds in different cover than early. Not a knock on early trials, just would like to attend one.
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:50 pm

As Wagonmaster said, buy a subsciption to the "American Field" magazine. Trial premiums must be published in advance of a trial and many of those ads are in the magazine. The AKC website has a section for field trials. You can select a State and scheduled trials will be displayed along with a description of the trial and the sponsoring club.

Just a reminder: for a lot of reasons there are relatively fewer wild bird trials than there are planted bird trials.
Mark

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Wagonmaster » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:30 am

Go to the National Championship, its in February in Grand Junction, TN and takes about three weeks. They were running in snow last year and the trial is run on a piece of land (the Ames Plantation) where the bird population is managed for the trial. Braces are three hours. www.amesplantation.org

Go to the Pheasant and Region 3 in November in Maryland. Go to the NGSPA Nationals in the end of Feb., they are in Booneville, AR in the end of Feb. The weather is usually good there, but weather is weather, it does what it wants, so you might run into snow like we did three years ago. The NGPSA circuit starts in Jan. in Georgia and Arizona, then goes to OK for the Quail Championships, then the Nationals, then trials in IL, KS, ID, IA, MI, not to mention the AKC weekend trials that start in Jan. and are then running pretty much every weekend through June. All of the NGSPA wild bird trials except the Quail are run in the fall, have to follow the laws in most states about running on wild bird populations. Sometimes it rains, sometimes it snows, sometimes its nice. Frankly, since our mothers all taught us to come in out of the rain, we tend to like nice better than not nice, but we still run if it is not nice provided that weather does not pose a threat to safety. It takes quite a bit of seriously bad weather to constitute a threat to safety. I have been in trials where horses were going down in the trailer because of heavy snows, trials with wall clouds on the horizon, trials with the dogs running on mostly flooded ground or in snow.

All of these trials and many more have been reported on and discussed in the Event section of this forum, a person of moderate skill with a computer could find them readily. The hour shorthair circuit is covered at www.ngspa.org, or you could get a subscription to Arlene Walker's great online magazine, www.gspchronicle.com

Subscribe to the American Field. Go online at www.akc.org and use their event lookup to find a trial pretty much any weekend somewhere in the US.

Most of the shorthair people take the time off after the GSPCA Nationals that end about the third week in Oct. We need a little time, somewhere during the year, to take the dogs hunting. And the pros need some time with their families, the pros are extremely hard working and they are on the road, living out of their rigs, far from home, about ten months out of the year.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:23 am

Thank you for the information, but all of those winter events are in the south. I'm looking for ND,SD,MT,MN,NE trials run in snow and cold.This is the kind of weather I hunt for half of the season, so I would be interested in seeing how my meat dogs handle late season roosters in comparison to FT champions. It would be an interesting day afield. I'm not going to enter my dogs mind you, I'm simply observing the differences. Trying to see what my dogs could improve on.
I guess I will have to look for early spring trials in the northern plains. I'm not trying to reinvent anything, but when a guy hunts 4-6 weeks of cold/winter weather with his dogs, it would be nice to see how other "professionally run" dogs handle the same conditions. Is it brutal? Yes, but that is the point. Also, brutal conditions really test your abilities as a hunter, and your dogs. That is what makes late season roosters almost a trophy in and of itself. I think of it like hunting a 2 year old white-tail as opposed to a 5 year old. Obviously pheasants age far more quickly. I believe that late season roosters are possibly the most wary of all upland birds, and you throw in the conditions in December/January and you would have a heck of a test.
I also would be interested in how much FT dogs would adjust their range in thick cattails/CRP/marsh grass as they would be blind. I mean they simply would not be able to see in front of them further than 2 feet in many cases.
I would also be interested in winter trials for Ruffed grouse. I have not hunted them of late, but did so religiously for 20 years. Late season was always my favorite. No people. Just you, your dog, and some very smart old birds.
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:40 am

Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, but I don't see any late season trials in the states I have mentioned.
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:03 am

In those states in those months, most everyone is going to be hunting.

Go over and watch this one. It'll be way different than your hunting, but you should be able to get some idea of what's going on.

NGSPA Hungarian Partridge Championships,
Cheyenne,WY, September 30. Bobbi Richardson—(
307) 630-1514, P.O. Box 21660,
Cheyenne, WY 82003.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of practical considerations that go into making a trial format. Those considerations force compromises. Some venues compromise in one direction, some in others. Just like people prefer different flavors of ice cream, they prefer and gravitate to different bird dog games.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:44 am

Are there any Bird dog games played in the winter, north of Oklahoma? I was just curious if such a thing existed? If not, it seems we are testing dogs in only fall and spring. I know many, including myself certainly hunt in the winter a lot.
Professor Move the Pea,

Your original question which you asked to be simply answered because you had no agenda is above. With little research I can answer question (A) from this weeks AF magazine with the following: 18 trials are advertised north of Oklahoma.
I'm looking for ND,SD,MT,MN,NE trials run in snow and cold.
Your modified question (b,c or whatever number should anyone care to keep track) after countless hours of irritating people or as you would describe it creating paranoia and or intimidating others into inferiority complexes :roll: can be answered again with the use of the limited resource of only this weeks AF magazine can be answered as follows: Minnestoa Grouse Championship, seven courses native birds...e-mail Gress2@msn.com

get out there and straighten those boys out professor...

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:08 am

You are an amazing mind chukar. :wink:

Winter trials on pheasant. Name one. Winter trials on grouse. Name one. For your information December 21st to March 21st is considered winter in this country. :D If you have the information, share it. In ND,SD,NE,MN,etc. I'm not calling you out, I can't find them.

You must need some action Chukar. You are the most irritable person on this forum. Get some lovin' and cheer up. :D Stop with the constant insults, and mature past acting like a Junior in high school. I have made it more than clear that I am interested in seeing FT dogs hunt in situations that I do in late season. What is wrong with that? The southern boys get to have late season hunts, why exclude the northern guys?
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:23 am

I doubt your next public apology will be as well received as your first.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Chukar12 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:30 am

so in North Dakota (I will only pick one) that leaves 10 days for you to attend a winter trial on wild pheasant from Dec 21st to Jan 2nd as that is when the season ends...in the middle of Christmas and New Year and you are in good faith intending to be productive and ask why you cannot see a trial?

I should know better I said I would stay out ... this time I really will.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Dave Quindt » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:34 am

Birddogz wrote:Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, but I don't see any late season trials in the states I have mentioned.
Established field trials, particularly in those states that you mentioned, are primarily horseback events. No one in their right mind is going to run dogs off of horseback through the snow and ice of ND in January. Not going to happen. At the same time, you also don't see VDD tests held in Jan in ND either, nor do you see retriever field trials held on the North Platte river in December. Wonder why?

Most field trials operate on the backs of amateurs who volunteer their time, money and scarce vacation resources. Getting folks to volunteer to drive 2500 miles to SD in January and spend 2 weeks in the prairie in 10* weather just isn't going to happen.
Winter trials on grouse


Here's a list of coverdog (grouse) trials and other related events held by those clubs. Of the states you mentioned, only MN has coverdog events and a small number at that.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1510196/2010 ... hedule.pdf

FWIW,
Dave

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Greg Jennings » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:47 am

Birddogz, you've created a system that is probably over-constrained. As mentioned, you're going to have to relax some of the contraints to find a workable solution.

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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by BigShooter » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:30 am

How many States allow you to run dogs on wild birds after the season ends, during winter?
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Re: Are there any events in winter?

Post by Birddogz » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:34 am

Dave Quindt wrote:
Birddogz wrote:Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, but I don't see any late season trials in the states I have mentioned.
Established field trials, particularly in those states that you mentioned, are primarily horseback events. No one in their right mind is going to run dogs off of horseback through the snow and ice of ND in January. Not going to happen. At the same time, you also don't see VDD tests held in Jan in ND either, nor do you see retriever field trials held on the North Platte river in December. Wonder why?

Most field trials operate on the backs of amateurs who volunteer their time, money and scarce vacation resources. Getting folks to volunteer to drive 2500 miles to SD in January and spend 2 weeks in the prairie in 10* weather just isn't going to happen.
Winter trials on grouse


Here's a list of coverdog (grouse) trials and other related events held by those clubs. Of the states you mentioned, only MN has coverdog events and a small number at that.

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1510196/2010 ... hedule.pdf

FWIW,
Dave
Thanks Dave. I was wondering why I couldn't find any. :D
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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