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Deer Hunters and Dogs

Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Winchey » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:06 am

So deer season is starting here on Monday and I am not sure if I should be taking the pup out into the grouse woods during deer season as I have heard some horror stories. I am a pretty inexperienced grouse hunter and hunted behind, or infront of a boot licking golden last season so it wasn't much of an issue. My new dog is really getting out there and while I would obviously not hunt where I knew there was a deer stand, there is always that chance. Deer hunting is very popular here, the deer hunters probably outnumber the bird people 1000-1 and the bird dog people 10000-1.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby AzDoggin » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:11 am

How long does the season last?

Is there any way to hunt where you are pretty sure they won't be after deer?

I'd say bright orange on you and the dog would be a good idea as a precaution, and hunt as far away as possible. Some of the deer folks don't take kindly to bird hunters and their dog tromping across an area they've scouted all year for a chance at the big buck.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Ruffshooter » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:30 am

Personally: I do not generally Ruff hunt in Nov.For a number of reasons: I do not want my dog shot mistaken for deer. I do not want my dog shot for chasing deer. I do not want my dog shot because someone just wants to shoot something. I do not to bother anyones deer hunt by my dog and my self walking in on a stand on has done all the work to scout for and set up. I don't want to ruin ones still hunting because my dogs bell and I just buster the deer out from under the person.

On occasion I will g to remote areas that I know pretty well that most do not deer hunt and I do it during the week, If I see a vehicle I don't go in so it is hit or miss.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:44 am

I suppose the one good point to the lack of Ohio ruffed grouse is that I won't be placing a dog at risk....I do not trust deer bowhunters here.
Gun hunters?...I worry much less.
Just takes reading some of the deer BBs to see that....and that is assuming that half the respondants are big talking on the Internet.
A lost dog gets cut no slack.
There are some sick folks sitting in trees.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Winchey » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:52 am

Oct 25th - Nov 20th Grouse is from Oct 1st - Dec 4th. I am just dissapointed we haven't gotten on as many birds as I would have liked. Better make the best out of this weekend and the last 2 weeks. There are some trial grounds about an hour north that is closed to hunting but there are lots of birds there so I will just try to get up there as much as possible to run him and we can always hit the waterfowl hunting hard too.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Winchey » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:55 am

Archery season here opened on October 5th I believe and also runs to the 20th. I am not as worried about them for some reason, maybe it is misguided. However there is certainly not as many of them compared to guns.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby KFhunter » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:28 pm

As long as you don't hunt a main gravel road you should be ok :wink:

auctually kidding aside its the truth, most of my grouse hunting is going up a main gravel road then parking at a not so well travelled or better yet blocked off spur then walk in.

I would think if your hunting grouse woods you could do the same and avoid 99% of the deer hunters, if a vehicle is parked at a spur keep going until you find one that no one's been in on, look for fresh sign.


Deer hunters arn't going to want to hunt the deep dark woods either



also, get an orange vest for your dog
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Ruffshooter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:14 am

[Deer hunters arn't going to want to hunt the deep dark woods either]

That is not the case. If one is a foot hunter and is in the big woods, they/we go where the big deer are.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby mudhunter » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:07 pm

In PA we have deer hunting the entire Grouse season, its just a fact of hunting in PA. The grouse season does close for the two weeks of rifle deer season (you would be crazy to try to hunt a dog in the woods around here then!)
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby BillGraves » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:43 pm

mudhunter wrote:In PA we have deer hunting the entire Grouse season, its just a fact of hunting in PA. The grouse season does close for the two weeks of rifle deer season (you would be crazy to try to hunt a dog in the woods around here then!)


You got that right! A lot of times, in the State Game Land anyway, it's like a drunken pumpkin patch! No way am I taking my dog out in that!
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Winchey » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:08 pm

I bet NewBrunswick you give Pennsylvania a run for it's money when it come to crazies. I had the dog out on basically a 4 wheeler trail the other night and we met about 6 pickup trucks out for birds. There were spots I was walking that I was wishing I had of brang waders and these guys were driving their trucks through this stuff on trails half as wide as their trucks to shoot a couple birds. Then during deer season there will be no shortage of stories about people getting shot at for getting to close to stands let alone dogs. My brother met a fella a couple seasons ago and asked him if he seen anything. The fella replied "no not yet, but I got off a couple sound shots though."
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:53 pm

While there are some legitimate concerns here, I really hate to see hunters, who hunt one type of game, bashing and/or generalizing about hunters who have a different venue. We all need to support each other's sport, standing together against groups that are pushing to bring all hunting to an end. I used to deer hunt and would get upset when I would here negative comments, lumping us all into one category and get even more upset when other hunters or fishermen were making those comments. Deer hunters have as much of a right to pursue their sport as we do ours.

Personally, I don't bird hunt during deer season her in Illinois, not so much for safety reasons, but as a courtesy to the deer hunters. They only have a few day a year to hunt deer and I don't want to take a chance on interfering with there hunt. Anyway, these are my feelings on the subject.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby dasia24 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:25 pm

There were spots I was walking that I was wishing I had of brang waders and these guys were driving their trucks through this stuff on trails half as wide as their trucks to shoot a couple birds. These all are great to know about it.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:45 am

birddogger wrote:.... Deer hunters have as much of a right to pursue their sport as we do ours........ They only have a few day a year to hunt deer and I don't want to take a chance on interfering with there hunt. Anyway, these are my feelings on the subject.



Yeees but.... bowhunters have a loooong season.

Watch your dogs closely if bowhunters are in the woods.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby ezzy333 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:06 am

birddogger wrote:While there are some legitimate concerns here, I really hate to see hunters, who hunt one type of game, bashing and/or generalizing about hunters who have a different venue. We all need to support each other's sport, standing together against groups that are pushing to bring all hunting to an end. I used to deer hunt and would get upset when I would here negative comments, lumping us all into one category and get even more upset when other hunters or fishermen were making those comments. Deer hunters have as much of a right to pursue their sport as we do ours.

Personally, I don't bird hunt during deer season her in Illinois, not so much for safety reasons, but as a courtesy to the deer hunters. They only have a few day a year to hunt deer and I don't want to take a chance on interfering with there hunt. Anyway, these are my feelings on the subject.

Charlie



Right on Charlie. Most deer hunters are also bird hunters and just as responsible as the people we all know.

Occasionally there is a bad one and we need to take care of that instead of sitting back and letting them ruin the reputation of our sport.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:28 pm

ezzy333 wrote:...Right on Charlie. Most deer hunters are also bird hunters and just as responsible as the people we all know....


Not in Ohio, I wager.
The bad ones do make the loudest noise but SSS is often heard on deer BBs.
The problem will mostly arise if a dog becomes lost or veers onto someone else's property or, especially, leased ground.
Not as large an issue, of course, with a dog and birdhunter together...bowhunters are not stupid.
Things can happen tho to disconnect dogs and hunters...another plus for a Garmin.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby dog dr » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:47 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:...Right on Charlie. Most deer hunters are also bird hunters and just as responsible as the people we all know....


Not in Ohio, I wager.
The bad ones do make the loudest noise but SSS is often heard on deer BBs.
The problem will mostly arise if a dog becomes lost or veers onto someone else's property or, especially, leased ground.
Not as large an issue, of course, with a dog and birdhunter together...bowhunters are not stupid.
Things can happen tho to disconnect dogs and hunters...another plus for a Garmin.



I agree. And, for rvery ethical deer hunter that would just look the other way when somebodys dog ran thru, i bet i know 2 that would shoot it and not think twice. some of them are just morons that think the dog is chasing "their" deer.

you guys are right, we need to ALL stand up together against the antis, and i think the majority of folks would do the right thing, BUT, I have sewed up too many dogs that had an arrow put thru them, and heard too many billy badasses talk about how they put a stop to that deer running dog.

and in my personal experience, there are way more drunken slobs that are shotgun/rifle deer hunters than any other type of hunters i have encountered. i know not all of them are, but i see plenty.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby stlgsp » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:04 pm

There's no getting around deer season in MO. Archery season runs the length of quail season, Nov. firearm is 10 days with another 10 or 11 days of anterless only in several counties and then 10 days for blackpowder in Dec. If I go out during the firearm season I stick to areas that restrict deer hunting and still put a lot of orange on the dogs.
Maybe it's just me but I find it odd that the youth only dates for deer and quail are the same weekend. Just seems like sooner or later there is going to be a problem.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddog1968 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:03 pm

In most Maryland Counties it is perfectly legal, as spelled out in the law, to shoot dogs chasing deer....problem is, it is about impossible to prove your dog wasn't chasing deer if
someone takes offense to seeing them in the woods and shoots them.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:19 pm

There are people everywhere, screaming at their dogs and shooting all over the place, its a madhouse!
I got my 11yr old kid with me, this is his first time afield with license and he is a bit taken aback.

I suspect every venue has some undesirable people and those people and situations need to be dealt with, but it is not unique to deer hunting.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby BigShooter » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:29 pm

Many residents of Minnesota do not even know the law regarding dogs afield and think a dog can be killed anytime it is seen around a big game animal. The fact of the matter is a single dog running after a full grown deer with no snow on the ground is highly unlikely to be able to endanger the animal. Here is the excerpt from MN Hunting & Trapping Regulations:

Dogs Pursuing Big Game
No persons may allow their dog to chase or kill big game.
Between January 1 and July 14, a dog that is observed wounding,
killing, or pursuing in a way that endangers big game may be killed by
any person.
A peace officer or conservation officer may kill a dog that
endangers big game at any time of the year. The officer or person is not
liable for damages for killing the dog.

Important: Other hunting seasons are open before, during, and after
the deer season. Many hunters use dogs to hunt upland game, waterfowl,
rabbits, raccoons, foxes, and coyotes. Dogs may not be shot during
fall hunting seasons, even if seen pursuing big game, except by a
conservation or peace officer.


As has already been mentioned, arrowing or shooting a dog is virtually never observed by a third party. All the owner knows is their dog just disappeared. I know a dog owner that hunts birds & deer and has said he wouldn't think twice about killing another person's dog if it strayed onto his land or interfered with his hunt.

P.S. I'm a big game hunter & have personally experienced way more idiots out during the deer rifle/shotgun season than at any other time in the fall.
Last edited by BigShooter on Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:20 pm

I am very careful to make sure that I or my dogs don't interfere with another person's hunt, regardless of what they are hunting. It is called being considerate. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I have never run across the type of people being discussed here, other than a couple here and there, and I have been hunting all my life.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:26 am

P.S. I'm a big game hunter & have personally experienced way more idiots out during the deer rifle/shotgun season than at any other time in the fall.

I am sure this is true, but the woods and fields are going to have more hunters out than any other time of the year. So the sheer number of people are raising the odds that there will be more jerks out than any other time of the year. JMO.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:05 am

birddogger wrote:I am very careful to make sure that I or my dogs don't interfere with another person's hunt, regardless of what they are hunting. It is called being considerate. ...



Sadly, accidents resulting in lost dogs can occur...has nothing at all to do with being considerate....may not even be while hunting.
"Considerate"...that's mildly insulting.
I had a dog climb a fence from thunder fear once...it was early bow season.
No issue thank God but....
Again, bow season is seldom of a short length.
A pup can also stray over a fence line in the relatively small coverts in the East...bad luck, accidents and stuff happens.

Regarding gun and bowhunters.....while I expect more general bad behavior by group gun hunters acting like high-school kids, I expect more deliberate acts against dogs will occur from bowhunters.
The competition inherent in deerhunting for many; the increasing leasing costs and difficulty in finding a lease; the feeling of being infringed upon should a dog misread a posted sign on "his" 30 acres; or having a neighbor who does not keep their farm dog tied and so the bowhunter has been pissed off all season...and more can all lead to problems for a pup and owner.

I drove into Canaan Valley from the north last year. Most of the drive in is thru leased ground. Bowhunter camps along the way saw hunters glaring at dog boxes and the feeling of dislike was palpable.
No, it is not everyone with stick and string....may even be regional, tho I doubt it.
However, bowhunter ranks have swelled tremendously in the last years and as the odds fall to issues with numbers of gun hunters for their one week then so it also falls with the greater number of bowhunters for their many weeks.
So...believe it or not, experienced it or not, bowhunting for deer has changed and has apparently changed some of it's participants.
Perhaps, the bowhunters need to understand that a birdhunter has a right to pursue their sport as well.
PC away the possibility of increased bad actors in a tree at your pup's risk.

Personally, I could not begin to care less about hunters sticking up for hunters...compared to a pup writhing on the ground from some idiot's arrow.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:14 am

Considerate"...that's mildly insulting.

Wow, somebody is a little sensitive.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby ACooper » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:34 am

birddogger wrote:
Considerate"...that's mildly insulting.

Wow, somebody is a little sensitive.

Charlie


What exactly is insulting about making an effort not to interfere with another persons hunt?
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby BigShooter » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:43 am

I believe the poster's point was, all circumstances resulting in a dog being near a bow or rifle hunter are not the result of simply being "inconsiderate". I took a narrow view of Charlie's post, that he was preaching "when one has a choice, be considerate of others". However, if a dog for any reason escapes being secured, is rangeing big in the woods, is lost or any number of other accidental circumstances, being considerate also applies to any yahoo that would attempt to kill another's dog. If anyone sees a dog in the woods or field "apparently unaccompanied" one time, what gives that person the right to assume the owner is being inconsiderate, the dog is endangering big game, and the dog should be killed? A dog well known to be allowed to run free and habitually part of a local pack of domestic dogs running free, pursuing and killing deer is another matter entirely.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby ezzy333 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:46 am

I have bowhunted for years and am yet to see a dog in the field without a hunter in the area that was shot or even shot at, as it would be plain stupid to shoot a dog with someone that close that the dog would run to. Thats not saying it hasn't happened but luckily idiots that hunt are still in the minority and will continue to be if we police our own sport. I also do agree there are many more ethics handicapped hunters in the gun hunting deer camps than any place else I have experienced. But have not seen that in the bow hunters I have known.

Charlie, you are right on and anything I can do that shows respect to our fellow hunters and trappers is not optional but a requirement in my book. I still find that the golden rule is a wonderful guide in all aspects of life. And there sure isn't anything insulting about living life as we all should.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby BigShooter » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:28 am

ezzy333 wrote:am yet to see a dog in the field without a hunter in the area


Aye, there's the crux of the matter. One of my shorthairs with a charged up TT collar & transmitter was off the chain at my cabin after July 14th this summer. I have done this before. While backing up a trailer I looked away from her for a couple of minutes. As soon as I exited the truck I called for her. She did not return. I used the TT with no response. She was gone from my ten acres. Across the road, the neighbor's yard borders hundreds of acres of State forest land. Why she ran & where she went I have no idea but wouldn't be surprised if she was chasing one of the over-abundant deer in the area.

Several years ago, knowing I had dogs, one of my neighbors that grew up in the community warned me there were folks in the immediate area that would shoot dogs off leash or dogs seen chasing a deer. This is a neighbor I get along well with and have for over twenty years so he wasn't trying to warn me about his own actions.

A loose dog is an accident waiting to happen.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby wems2371 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:40 am

Consideration and understanding should extend both ways afield. Granted I'm positive there are discourteous people on both sides, but one side does not inflict a fatal wound on anothers hunting partner. When it comes to stray dogs, when the owner thinks unfenced and unleashed Fido never leaves the yard, my pity doesn't run as deep for the repeated nuisance this inflicts on the rest of us...whether it be hunters, landowners, or farmers.

When shotgun opens here, it is nuts--especially on the weekend. You will hear continually how someone only has such and such weekend to hunt or such and such day off...so it creates a frenzy in my opinion. We had totally forgotten about shotgun opener last year, and travelled an hour from home, only to see a bunch of folks in orange driving around every road. We picked a patch of open prairie grass with a fringe of trees on the boundaries, that you would easily be able to see orange in. We ran the dogs with orange vests and left the gun in the truck. After the trip, we just wanted to put them down for 15 minutes or so and head back. We did okay until one of the dogs ran a ridge line. Over the ridge line, there was more prairie grass and then eventually some timber, and the trees on the boundary line got denser as well. I did NOT want my dogs going over that ridge, and instantly called the one back. I no sooner got her back to me, than a guy in an orange jumpsuit appeared on the ridge line, and started screaming at us from 200' away. We got read the riot act about didn't we know this was his time to hunt, we had no right to be there, he'd been out all morning chasing deer, he only had this weekend, and yadayadayada. We yelled back that we had no intention of going where he had come from, but he continued to rant. Eventually I mentioned calling a DNR officer to see if those licenses we had bought really did give us the right to be out there. :roll: Confrontation over and we headed our different ways, with us working the field back to the parking lot, just as we had planned. It was a rotten day after that, stewing over the event. While I do appreciate the "warning", it all could've went smoother. If he'd come over that ridge and yelled, "Guy's we're hunting deer over here and would appreciate it if you kept your dogs away for their own safety." We would've yelled back, "Hey we're sorry, we weren't going to head that way anyway, but we appreciate the warning...and we're sorry if we disturbed anything." We are both archers, and my husband is after all a bowhunter. While the stranger in the orange jumpsuit was out chasing deer all morning, there's no doubt he might've been moving off some pheasant or ruining any rare chance at a quail. It goes both ways, but many have the mindset that they own all the public ground, when it's their season.

Right now, we are hunting ducks in some of the same habitat as a bowhunter might place a stand. Short of staying home while everyone else's season is going on, conflicts of interest are always possible. So I will go out, but assess the risk as I do so. I will pay better attention to shotgun weekend, and avoid it all together. I look for how many vehicles are in the parking lot, and what kind of gear they have, i.e. dog boxes or truck decals that might denote what they're in to. I orange up my dogs, and myself of course. My dogs always wear collars with nametags. If I'm hunting with both dogs down, I put the Garmin on the one who listens the least (which is still pretty darn good), so that I know if she's heading into a risk zone and I need to call her back. If I enter a field with another vehicle in the parking lot, I will occasionally call my dogs or blow the whistle, so that a deer hunter will have no excuse not to know I'm there with dogs and approximately how close. Granted the OP's post was about grouse woods, which due to the species shared environment, puts more of a spin on it. But if I avoided hunting pheasant during deer season, I'd have 2 days of December 9th & 10th to hunt.

Iowa
Pheasant October 30th-January 10th
Deer Archery October 1st-December 3rd and then December 20th-January 10th
Deer Muzzleloader October 16th-24th and then December 20th-January 10th
Deer Shotgun December 4th-8th and then December 11th-19th

On a side note, and maybe this is already being implemented, is there any part of the Hunter Safety course that covers sharing the land courtesy-wise between the different types of hunters and the use of dogs? I'm of the age that I didn't need to take the course, so I don't know what it entails. But covering the topic with the upcoming generations, might create a better understanding between the groups.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby ezzy333 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:42 am

BigShooter wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:am yet to see a dog in the field without a hunter in the area


Aye, there's the crux of the matter. One of my shorthairs with a charged up TT collar & transmitter was off the chain at my cabin after July 14th this summer. I have done this before. While backing up a trailer I looked away from her for a couple of minutes. As soon as I exited the truck I called for her. She did not return. I used the TT with no response. She was gone from my ten acres. Across the road, the neighbor's yard borders hundreds of acres of State forest land. Why she ran & where she went I have no idea but wouldn't be surprised if she was chasing one of the over-abundant deer in the area.

Several years ago, knowing I had dogs, one of my neighbors that grew up in the community warned me there were folks in the immediate area that would shoot dogs off leash or dogs seen chasing a deer. This is a neighbor I get along well with and have for over twenty years so he wasn't trying to warn me about his own actions.

A loose dog is an accident waiting to happen.

I agree and I also might shoot a dog tht was chasing deer if it had no collar, had been seen before chasing, or I had never seen the dog in the neighborhood before. But a dog with a collar and an e-collar wouldn't be considered a wild dog that is a nuisance.

But it could and am sure it has so it does behoove anyone to be careful and not ask for trouble.

Wild cats and dogs are both fair game when in the woods or chasing.

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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby AzDoggin » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:13 am

BigShooter wrote: I'm a big game hunter & have personally experienced way more idiots out during the deer rifle/shotgun season than at any other time in the fall.


No doubt. Lot's of beer guts out there for their once-a-year outing in the woods. It's these guys that give all hunters a bad name.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:36 am

birddogger wrote:
Considerate"...that's mildly insulting.

Wow, somebody is a little sensitive.

Charlie



I said mildly.
I would like to think that I am "considerate" when I hunt as well...if I see someone in a tree, which is not altogether difficult with the leaves off, then I head another way....same as if I saw another birdhunter.
I hope I am "considerate" in other ways as well.
The point tho, that you chose to ignore, is that dogs can become seperated at times other than hunting and, when hunting, by circumstances the hunter, with the best intentions and most consideration, may find impossible to prevent.
If you and your dog are perfect then bully for you.
I simply have zero faith that every vertical or horizontal stick&stringer will act with anything but that which concerns their own narrow interest, especially as their own ranks grow.
As I stated, no bowhunter is dumb enough to shoot a dog with it's hunter around....there are other circumstances however when a string could well be plucked.
Anyone only wants to look at scenarios that fit only their belief of what happens in the world and woods.... then I wish their pups well.

Seperating "wild" cats from Tammy's pet and considering stray dogs "fair game" is a terrible but predictable attitude and preciously the one which the bowhunters adopt as a mantra.
Determining when a cat is wild or if a dog is a "deer-chasing stray" or if a tired dog looks lost and frightened is the tough issue....not all dogs wear loads of collars, a dog can slip a collar and being able to make a judgement in the woods...a judgement for which there is no return....may fall more to guess than surety, with frustration perhaps playing a part.
I suppose once buried any mistake can be forgotton more easily...I will never know.
Remember also that bowhunters are often very close to houses.
In truth, many folks also do not know the difference in dogs...a dog is a dog, to them.

There is also the "chase" itself. 1 mile and steady is far different than 100 yards and tired but if that 100 yards or less flows past a bowhunter then a dead dog may result.
I guess most disagree but I believe that a dog's, any dog's, life is worth more than a deer on the wall...I find that very sad.

We all try to be careful in the woods or fields, and consideration is not only for those most perfect, but a short look past our own experiences may help a dog sometime...may help it live.
This is ultimately a small problem rangewide that becomes large only when it is our own dog....but valuing other hunters wants above a birddog collared with a mistake is pretty stupid....I chose not to live that way.
JMHO.

I have hunted Iowa in deer season....crazy road drivers but the hunters would see us and use us to push deer toward them.
Never came close to harm with 2 or 4 legs but luck may have been involved.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:15 pm

I can't imagine how my comments would be taken as mildly insulting or as Mark said, preaching. It sure wasn't intended that way. The topic is about deer hunters and dogs and I was just stating how I deal with that time of the year. I will also add that when a dog is running free, it is in danger regardless of the time of the year. They get poisened, ran over by vehicles, shot, etc. I have known of incidents where a driver ran over a dog without trying to stop or avoid hitting the dog. There will always be evil people.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:47 am

birddogger wrote:.... There will always be evil people.


I suggest that they, the evil people, are increasing in percentage and in the way they spend their free time, all equating to more dangers for pup than in the past.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Winchey » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:04 pm

I guess most disagree but I believe that a dog's, any dog's, life is worth more than a deer on the wall...I find that very sad.


Completely agree with most of what you said. In my province only conservation officers have the authority to shoot loose dogs, but a lot of hunters, including a lot of my friends, and family members wouldn't think twice about shooting a dog if it disturbed their hunt. I think bird hunters should do their best to stay out of other hunters way and those with the mentality that it is ok to shoot dogs should take a step back and realize it is not the end of the world if they don't get their deer.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby twofeathers » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:19 am

[quote="wems2371"
On a side note, and maybe this is already being implemented, is there any part of the Hunter Safety course that covers sharing the land courtesy-wise between the different types of hunters and the use of dogs? I'm of the age that I didn't need to take the course, so I don't know what it entails. But covering the topic with the upcoming generations, might create a better understanding between the groups.[/quote]

Just took HS with my son this fall. While hunting ethics were a big part of the course no mention of sharing land with other "types" of hunters. There were scenarios of meeting other hunters afield and how to approach that situation.

When I was into rabbit hunting with dogs I actually had a hunter during shotgun season on public hunting tell me I was harassing him running my dogs and he called the DNR. Never heard from or saw the DNR so I imagine I was in the right. I don't know if you have ever heard five or six beagles in the woods on chase but its not sneaky. :lol:

I personally no longer take my dogs out during the shotgun seasons, especially on weekends, unless on private land where no one else should be. A confrontation afield while armed can go bad quick and should always be avoided.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby prairiefirepointers » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:46 am

I'm thankful that I'm blessed with a plethora of private hunting ground. There's a couple sections I hunt that get leased out to a Texas based oil company durring rifle season (deer only). I just stay away from those areas, not because I'm afraid my dogs would wander into that area and they'd shoot em, but because they pay the landowner about 15K for that ground each year during deer season. They're a pretty good group of ol boys.

IF however, someone did shoot, shoot at, hit, maim, kill, or toss a rock in anger at my dogs, It'd be a long day for me afield, shoveling.
I go by the code of the 3S rule. Shoot, Shovel, Shut up. :lol:

"no officer, I have not seen anyone in this area, or matching that description... Really?... Vanished huh? .. Weird" :wink:
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:59 am

When I was into rabbit hunting with dogs I actually had a hunter during shotgun season on public hunting tell me I was harassing him running my dogs and he called the DNR. Never heard from or saw the DNR so I imagine I was in the right. I don't know if you have ever heard five or six beagles in the woods on chase but its not sneaky.

You may have been legal, but you were not showing any consideration or respect for a fellow hunter. Some may say I am insulting or preaching, but I am just saying we all need to show some respect for each other. I would think that most public hunting grounds would be closed to other types of hunting during a short shotgun season, but maybe not.

On another note, I was a bow hunter for several years and it is a wonderful sport. Nothing will get your heart pumping faster than harvesting a big game animal with a bow and arrow. I heard negative comments and had people look down on me when I would mention being a bow hunter, which I never understood. As Ezzy mentioned in an earlier post, the bow hunters I was around were some of the most ethical hunters I have ever encountered. It is sad that a few bad apples can be perceived as the majority.

Charlie
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:01 am

I bowhunted as well.
First with a Bear Kodiak and then a Jennings Shooting Star, all many years ago...I dropped the sport as boring.
While I saw no thrill equal to a birddog's moves and points, or even to a turkey gobbling 15 yards behind me, bowhunters do work very hard for their sport and invest heavily in time and money.
Many are ethical in all ways(even baiting) but others are concerned with payback on investment or brags in barbershops, first and second.
IMHO, their attitude is changing as their numbers grow...I prefer to walk with eyes open to change rather than narrowed with memories.

On a further note, I expect some bowhunters got/get an odd look as they always have the first chance at the largest bucks and some adopt a hunting superiority based on weapon( check out what many BHs think of using a crossbow :wink: )...you will have that attitude with humans.

Not knowing all the facts should make it difficult to call anyone inconsiderate...were I to see a rabbit hunter in a field and to hear a hunter in a tree yelp about it, I would be hardpressed to say who was inconsiderate w/o the facts.
Closing down other hunters for a short gun season seems to be a fair trade-off...tough to do with months-long bow seasons tho.
Again, that is often the issue....along with accidents and misjudgements based on frustration.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby AzDoggin » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:13 am

birddogger wrote:
As Ezzy mentioned in an earlier post, the bow hunters I was around were some of the most ethical hunters I have ever encountered. It is sad that a few bad apples can be perceived as the majority.

Charlie


Around here, the sheer committement of time and energy tends to weed out the idiots who hunt with bows. All the bowhunters I know are focussed, dedicated sportsmen who LIVE for that 30 second encounter with the animal they've been dreaming about all year. Most of them are also in pretty darn good physical shape because they scout so in the mountains so extensively in the pre-season.

Fortunately, there are no birds in elk country around here. There are deer in the desert in quail habitat, but one thing Arizona has a abundance of is public land. Not an abundance of big game or birds or rain, but there is plenty of public land, so conflicts between deer hunters and bird hunters with dogs are pretty rare, I would guess.

It's the rifle-season camps that house drunken fools, at times.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby ezzy333 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:57 am

This reminds me of the old story about a guy moving to a new area and he asked someone he met what the people were like in the area, and the person replied "what are they like where you come from" and the answer was really nice and friendly and he was told they were the same here. Shortly after that another person stopped the same guy and said he was moving there and wanted to know about the people in the area and when asked what they were like where he was moving from, he said cold ,distant, and couldn't be trusted and he was told that he would find them the same there.

I think we all tend to find what we are looking for. I do know from experience there are a few in every group that just don't get the message and there probably are more of them when a large group get together such as gun hunting deer camps or just hunting in large groups. Seems it is important to try and out do everyone else at the expense sometimes of the law and good ethics. But thank God, most are just as responsible as we are.

Ezzy
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby prairiefirepointers » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:52 pm

I'm thankful for deer hunters for the most part. There are bad apples in all walks of life. Deer are a nuisance here in my area of Kansas. They're pretty to look at, but when you get a birdseye view of one as you plow one over with your vehicle, your perception changes. I personally, think there should be no retribution against poaching deer in our area, as long as they kill the doe's. For the most part there isn't. Every once in a while you hear about someone getting caught and prosecuted, but rarely. I know there's alot of "booze cruising" for deer done at night.

I've had "encounters" with deer hunters before. For the most part they want to stay out of your way as much as you want to stay away from them. Deer hunters with an ounce of sence won't hunt a section of ground they know is going to be hunted by people in orange Vests toting shotguns and several dogs quartering the field in front of them. Although, on second thought, if you HAVE to hunt public ground, then that's a sticky situation. Who has MORE right to hunt that area?

Glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby prairiefirepointers » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:04 pm

A sidenote:

Kansas has the WIHA program (walk in hunting area) which was introduced in 1995. As of 2004 there was over 1 MILLION acres enrolled into this program. Certain area's of WIHA are NOT allowed for Firearms Deer Hunting. IF I had to hunt public ground, I would make dang sure that I only hunted the area's on the map that were outlined in red during Deer season.

Part of being a responsible hunter means taking precautions to avoid putting yourself into a "situation" in the first place. :wink:
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:24 pm

prairiefirepointers wrote:A sidenote:

Kansas has the WIHA program (walk in hunting area) which was introduced in 1995. As of 2004 there was over 1 MILLION acres enrolled into this program. Certain area's of WIHA are NOT allowed for Firearms Deer Hunting. IF I had to hunt public ground, I would make dang sure that I only hunted the area's on the map that were outlined in red during Deer season.

Part of being a responsible hunter means taking precautions to avoid putting yourself into a "situation" in the first place. :wink:

Ditto!!

Charlie
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:07 pm

Not knowing all the facts should make it difficult to call anyone inconsiderate...were I to see a rabbit hunter in a field and to hear a hunter in a tree yelp about it, I would be hardpressed to say who was inconsiderate w/o the facts.
Closing down other hunters for a short gun season seems to be a fair trade-off...tough to do with months-long bow seasons tho.
Again, that is often the issue....along with accidents and misjudgements based on frustration.

I said closing down areas during a short shotgun season, which in Illinois is three days the first season and four days the second season. Nothing was mentioned about bow hunting in the post you are referring to. The facts are that a rabbit hunter was running a pack of beagles during shotgun season with deer hunters present. I am not arguing who has more right. If it is open to all hunters, then of course they all have the same right to be there. I am talking about ethics and common courtesy, not to mention the safety factor. Again, I am not talking about a bow hunter in a tree, yelling down at a rabbit or bird hunter. That is a totally different situation. It would be frustrating for the bow hunter and may ruin his hunt, but it happens and he would be wrong to yell at the upland hunter unless it was intentional IMO. Surely we can agree on this. I actually had this to happen to me one time when I was pheasant hunting on state property. This guy in a tree accused me of interfering with his deer hunt. Not only did I not know he was there, but this particular area on the state ground was a controlled pheasant hunting area and off limits to bow hunters. He was a jerk and in the wrong. :wink:

Charlie
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby birddogger » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:10 pm

ezzy333 wrote:This reminds me of the old story about a guy moving to a new area and he asked someone he met what the people were like in the area, and the person replied "what are they like where you come from" and the answer was really nice and friendly and he was told they were the same here. Shortly after that another person stopped the same guy and said he was moving there and wanted to know about the people in the area and when asked what they were like where he was moving from, he said cold ,distant, and couldn't be trusted and he was told that he would find them the same there.

I think we all tend to find what we are looking for. I do know from experience there are a few in every group that just don't get the message and there probably are more of them when a large group get together such as gun hunting deer camps or just hunting in large groups. Seems it is important to try and out do everyone else at the expense sometimes of the law and good ethics. But thank God, most are just as responsible as we are.

Ezzy

Good story and so true.

Charlie
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby BigShooter » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:48 pm

birddogger wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:This reminds me of the old story about a guy moving to a new area and he asked someone he met what the people were like in the area, and the person replied "what are they like where you come from" and the answer was really nice and friendly and he was told they were the same here. Shortly after that another person stopped the same guy and said he was moving there and wanted to know about the people in the area and when asked what they were like where he was moving from, he said cold ,distant, and couldn't be trusted and he was told that he would find them the same there.

I think we all tend to find what we are looking for. I do know from experience there are a few in every group that just don't get the message and there probably are more of them when a large group get together such as gun hunting deer camps or just hunting in large groups. Seems it is important to try and out do everyone else at the expense sometimes of the law and good ethics. But thank God, most are just as responsible as we are.

Ezzy

Good story and so true.

Charlie


...and I never met another person I didn't like ..... some ... I just like a whole lot better than others! :wink:
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby Mountaineer » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:36 pm

birddogger wrote:.... Nothing was mentioned about bow hunting in the post you are referring to.....


OK...I have seen shotgunners perched in tree stands :) but ...w/o going thru everything again, I continue to maintain that bowhunters have changed to the negative as their numbers have increased and for some of the reasons I mentioned.
To a birddog's loss.
You don't see it that way...okie-dokie, that is between you, your dogs and your Vet.

I think we all do see what we are looking for most times....either thru wide-open eyes or those closed against seeing change in a fellow hunter of whatever weapon.
I simply care more about dogs than hunters...that is my burden, I guess.
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Re: Deer Hunters and Dogs

Postby smokinsam » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:35 am

cant bird hunt during gun season here either.
as far as bow hunters go,if i know the area there at i simply stay away from it.I paid for my license to!
my dogs run with beepers and bells so no good reason to shoot them.even if he was chasin a deer.
its ethics and common sense.
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