To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

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prairiefirepointers
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To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by prairiefirepointers » Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:11 pm

I've always mulled around wether or not to insulate my aluminum dog box... I just don't know if it gets cold enuf to warrant me doing so. I always just put a healthy dose of prairie hay in it prior to the cold weather arriving. I've always felt that was sufficiant enough. However some things I mull and consider, are when I head out on longer hunting trips, for example when I head out by way of Bucklin, Kansas instead of the abundant amount of private ground 15 mins from my doorstep. (unfortunately alot of ground, but more productive ground out west of here)

One such consideration is, When I road them an hour or longer (or they sit in the box over dinner when we're on the road) do they settle down and get chilled durring cold days? My box has the "4 seasons" vents, but I wonder does this put them at risk for perhaps a pulled muscle? If that happens, your dog is laid up and done for a number of days. (hasn't happend, thankfully)

Another consideration is, IF I were to insulate it, would it then be too warm in the early season and during off season conditioning? However, I can Pull the vents covers all out on all 4 sides, like here in the pic. So, I don't think that would be an issue at all.

What do You think? Is your aluminum box insulated or not? WHY?

Image
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Pineywoods » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:16 pm

I gave up on one box fits all applications a long time ago for warm weather I use a open well vented box.
Image
For cold weather I use a fully enclosed insulated box (sorry no picture I can download)
If a dog is in a cold box they are burning calories to stay warm and it's hard enough to keep weight on
them during hunting season. If you have ever spent a really cold night outside you know how tired and
stiff you were the next day.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by k2k » Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:57 am

I got the dogs each a coat that is designed like a horse blanket. It seems to keep them warm, and it's easy to put on and take off. And, it doesn't look foo-fooish :lol: .

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:04 am

Personally I like an inuslated box for cold but also to reduce the heat on the surface the dog leans on. (I worry more about the heat in and on a box than the cold.
My dogs can be in there box duing 10 degree weather and be very comfortable. You open the door and it is very warm in there. I built my box so it aint pretty but works well. Image
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by prairiefirepointers » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:16 am

Ruff,

I think it looks pretty dang nice. I'm leaning towards insulating it. Just got to figure out how to do it without scaring up my box. I think if I got some if that blue or pink foam sheet insulation a 1/2" think and something almost like a "double sided tape" I could just make it stick on there. I need to figure out an adhesive. . . Hmm 8)
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Ruffshooter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:36 am

Thanks

If you are looking for it to be removable:
1) Blue or Pink foam, great, (That is what I used, but you could glue the foam, with a styrofoam caulking ahesive, to FRP then use velcrow on the foam to the metal wall and ceiling panels. You could attach some small handles to the frp so you could pull it out when you wanted. Home Depot has the foam caulking that will not eat the foam.
2) If you are looking for it to be permanent then do the above and use the foam adhesive to the metal as well.

Good luck.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by prairiefirepointers » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:39 pm

Thanks Ruff,

I think I will insulate it. I've got PLENTY of vents to pull out to get air in the warm weather. And, if I make the insulation removeable, that's a plus too. :D
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by buckshot » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:03 pm

LineX the box and throw some straw in.

Don't worry about the box in the summer as it does not heat up like people think as LineX has heat resistance properties -- perhaps if painted black with paint instead of LineX.

Here is a full sized box that was LineX'd.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by prairiefirepointers » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:07 pm

There's no way in Hades Im sprayin LineX on a thousand dollar aluminum dog box!
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by buckshot » Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:34 pm

The 2 boxes in trucks in picture above are Owens 4 Seasons boxes and when I my youngest son is out diapers, baby food, and ect, LOL, I plan on having both of them done as well.

The box LineX'd is not an Owens but cost the same as an Owens.

No need to worry about oxidizing, going dull, and etc................I'd rather pay a little more money and protect my investments over the long haul. LOL, plus they look nice and easy to clean.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by prairiefirepointers » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:51 am

I worked for ALCOA (Aluminum Company Of America) for 10 years... I like to think I'm pretty much a pro at polishing aluminum.. As a matter of fact my box is getting a new polish this weekend. A buddy just asked me the other day, "why are you going to polish it, looks good to me?" and I said, "well, I'm a little more paticular.. I spend that kinda coin on a box, I'm going to make sure it shine's like a diamond in a goats arse... cause that's how I roll" 8)
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Finelinegundogs » Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:55 am

As I have been building my new line of stainless boxes this year I spend a good bit of time with temp testing in 90 degree weather in June with dogs in the box. The the boxes I am building are either single walled ss or double walled and 1" insulation, floor-ceiling and walls. Now these boxes have 7" of top storage and the insulated box on one day that was 89 outside and 105 on surface of top storage lid was 73 inside the box and on the non insulated it was 85. That is a considerable difference which moved me to go ahead and insulate all boxes I build. I should FINALLY have my 2 and 3 hole truck boxes running by the end of this month and will post pics. I am in SC and looked at my boxes to work for all people. I hhave hauled dogs to the bird field all summer long and none of them ever got hot. I also have built in a water tank in all the boxes which can be filled with ice in the warmer months and it will cool the box down a TON.

PM or email with any questions as I will gladly share any info I have.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:55 am

If you want to drop temps even more put a White, ceramic, Polymer coating over the aluminum also. You will be amazed at how much that surface temp drops.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by mountaindogs » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:53 am

Finelinegundogs wrote:As I have been building my new line of stainless boxes this year I spend a good bit of time with temp testing in 90 degree weather in June with dogs in the box. The the boxes I am building are either single walled ss or double walled and 1" insulation, floor-ceiling and walls. Now these boxes have 7" of top storage and the insulated box on one day that was 89 outside and 105 on surface of top storage lid was 73 inside the box and on the non insulated it was 85. That is a considerable difference which moved me to go ahead and insulate all boxes I build. I should FINALLY have my 2 and 3 hole truck boxes running by the end of this month and will post pics. I am in SC and looked at my boxes to work for all people. I hhave hauled dogs to the bird field all summer long and none of them ever got hot. I also have built in a water tank in all the boxes which can be filled with ice in the warmer months and it will cool the box down a TON.

PM or email with any questions as I will gladly share any info I have.

Shane
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Ditto that. In southeast TN heat is a bigger issue. A well ventilated and well insulated box stays the coolest. My dogs jump in willingly in the summer as the metal floor stays nice and cool. In the winter most of our trips are short, but a few get to go duck hunting on some trips and the dogs load in wet, and their is not way to keep the box completely dry. Keeps them warm anyway. They will jump in the box at home if I leav the doors open. Our personal box is really too short for several of our dogs though, and I image I'll sell it eventually. Has like 1.5 inches of insulation, but could use better ventilation.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by MTO4Life » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:27 am

prairiefirepointers wrote:.. I spend that kinda coin on a box, I'm going to make sure it shine's like a diamond in a goats arse... cause that's how I roll" 8)
I was drinking water when I read this and almost had it come out my nose I laughed so hard at that line! I'm going to have to remember it for one of those times I need a nifty quote!!

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Finelinegundogs » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:04 am

Here are some temp results from testing one of my boxes last August. Also, I went with Stainless on everything because it is a much more dense metal where aluminum is softer and it will hold more heat than ss, well it also will last forever and look brand new. But, I can place my hand on top of one of these ss boxes in the dead of hot summer sun and I can keep it there, where on an alum box you can't do it. Plus we use a food grade insulation, same used in commercial freezers and refrigerators which makes a difference. So I insulate everything, however, I am going to start doing some boxes for use in say an suv and they will be all ss but have 1/2" holes water jetted 1/4" apart on sides and back with doors to match. they will also make for a great summer type box.

I did this testing in August and here were the results as I sat in a Lowe's parking lot for 90 minutes with dogs in the boxes:

Insulated Box with top storage.
Real outside temp 87.7
Inside box temp 73.2
With fan on only 1 degree cooler as it is only moving the hot air around
With water tank filled with ice/water inside temp it will drop it 10 degrees
Outside top temp 103

Non Insulated taken next day
Real outside temp 85.4
Inside temp 79.1
Outside top temp 101
Fan on, same. Within 1 degree difference

I was in IN 2 weeks ago with the used 2 hole with 2 dogs in it full time. One night it was down to 19 and I had the water tank filled. The box is so well insulated that it was super toasty in the box and when I went to water dogs that morning the water was over 50 degrees.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by scott townsend » Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:57 am

I totally agree. Insulation is the way to go for heat just as well as the cold.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by topher40 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:16 am

Personally I dont see the point in insulating a dog box. I have never seen a dog die of the cold as long as they have plenty of bedding in there. Now I have seen dogs die of heat stroke, ventilation is the key not insulation. JMO
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by AzDoggin » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:30 am

Finelinegundogs wrote:Here are some temp results from testing one of my boxes last August. Also, I went with Stainless on everything because it is a much more dense metal where aluminum is softer and it will hold more heat than ss, well it also will last forever and look brand new. But, I can place my hand on top of one of these ss boxes in the dead of hot summer sun and I can keep it there, where on an alum box you can't do it. Plus we use a food grade insulation, same used in commercial freezers and refrigerators which makes a difference. So I insulate everything, however, I am going to start doing some boxes for use in say an suv and they will be all ss but have 1/2" holes water jetted 1/4" apart on sides and back with doors to match. they will also make for a great summer type box.

I did this testing in August and here were the results as I sat in a Lowe's parking lot for 90 minutes with dogs in the boxes:

Insulated Box with top storage.
Real outside temp 87.7
Inside box temp 73.2
With fan on only 1 degree cooler as it is only moving the hot air around
With water tank filled with ice/water inside temp it will drop it 10 degrees
Outside top temp 103

Non Insulated taken next day
Real outside temp 85.4
Inside temp 79.1
Outside top temp 101
Fan on, same. Within 1 degree difference

I was in IN 2 weeks ago with the used 2 hole with 2 dogs in it full time. One night it was down to 19 and I had the water tank filled. The box is so well insulated that it was super toasty in the box and when I went to water dogs that morning the water was over 50 degrees.
Impressive work there. Thanks for sharing all the data.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:35 am

topher40 wrote:Personally I dont see the point in insulating a dog box. I have never seen a dog die of the cold as long as they have plenty of bedding in there. Now I have seen dogs die of heat stroke, ventilation is the key not insulation. JMO
I night agree with you back in the old days of wood boxes but if you have a metal box it needs to be insulated to keep from freezing or burning the dog eveytime it touches the metal. The dog may live without it but if you are concerned at all about the comfort of the dog and in many cases the well being then insulate the boxes. I wouldn't own one that isn't in this country or if I was going to travel with it. Any dog deserves at least that much.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by nikegundog » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:00 am

With fan on only 1 degree cooler as it is only moving the hot air around
"Fineline dogs" Ditto on the good data. Would reversing the fan direction pull the heat out? Just a thought.

I live in Minnesota and completely believe in insulated dog boxes.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by Ken Lynch » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:06 am

Has anyone ever used one of those wireless thermometers to monitor the inside of the dog box while it is in the back of the truck during a typical days activity? The kind that can record max high and low. They sell them as indoor/outdoor weather stations. I have used them to keep track of the temp inside my refrigerator in the camper.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by markj » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:10 am

The box I use is cedar lined aluminum clad. Dogs stay warm in there, why dont they build them like that now? I would think fur to metal may not be a good thing in harsh cold like we sometimes get here. I add cedar bedding and dogs would rather stay in there than their kennels when it is very cold out.
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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by k2k » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:32 am

Ken Lynch wrote:Has anyone ever used one of those wireless thermometers to monitor the inside of the dog box while it is in the back of the truck during a typical days activity? The kind that can record max high and low. They sell them as indoor/outdoor weather stations. I have used them to keep track of the temp inside my refrigerator in the camper.
I have one zip-tied to inside of the top of a plastic crate. It gives me great peace of mind in the summer and the winter. I can see at a glance what the temp is as I'm going down the road. Pretty inexpensive too.

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Re: To insulate or not to insulate, that is the ???

Post by A/C Guy » Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:38 pm

topher40 wrote:Personally I dont see the point in insulating a dog box. I have never seen a dog die of the cold as long as they have plenty of bedding in there. Now I have seen dogs die of heat stroke, ventilation is the key not insulation. JMO
You obviously missed that previous posts that showed the insulated boxes are even more important in hot climates. At 90˚ ambient, driving down the road in the sun, the metal of the box will get to be 100+˚. You must insulated the box to keep that heat away from the dog.
buckshot wrote:Don't worry about the box in the summer as it does not heat up like people think as LineX has heat resistance properties -- perhaps if painted black with paint instead of LineX.
You can get LineX in white or other more reflective colors. Even LineX gets hot in direct sunlight if it is black. The white and the lighter colors are always going to reflect away more heat than black or dark colors.
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