Gun Dog Forum

First, Hello to all from the green (ie rainy) Willamette Valley of Western Oregon. I have a specific question or 2 re: the GSP, but first a little backgound on me.

I hunt over a National level chocolate Lab. We do ducks (of course), quail, chukar, doves, pheasant, and grouse. She lives in the house with me and is my constant companion. This particular dog has been bred twice and her titled pups now hunt in 2 countries and half a dozen states. She is, by any measure, a great dog.
I mention this only to indicate that I am very familiar with all the health clearances and titles, guarantees, indications of conformation, etc that are associated with a high level dog of that breed. I am, however, woefully unfamiliar with which clearances, titles, etc are indicators of great breeding in the GSP..

My entire life I have had Labs. However for the last 20 years or so I have had a consistent desire to own and hunt over a GSP (yeah I know.. I have been mulling this over for a while..). Labs rule the marsh, but there are times hunting upland that I believe I would benefit from a dog with a different set of tools. I'll be 50 soon and as a present to myself I have made up my mind to get the 'best' GSP I can find. I am hoping you forum members more familiar with this breed can steer me in that direction. I do understand that a lot of the so-called back yard breeders are not, shall we say, necessarily improving the breed (and this is very true of the Lab as well) and I intend to avoid this downfall like the plague when selecting my pup. In the Lab world there are a few standout breeders that everyone references, whose lines provide PROVEN winner dogs... is there the same for the GSP? Please feel free to PM me if you would rather.

And so... with thanks offered in advance for your advice.... I do have a question or 2.

1. What are the current health concerns that are tested for when breeding a GSP?
2. In seeking a pup of the highest hunting/field pedigree what specifically should I be looking for?
3. What should a confident breeder offer as far as guarantees when selling a pup?
4. Which are the classic, great books I should be reading re: training a GSP?

Many thanks,
Dan

I would go with something bred out of some NAVHDA lines. Those traditionally will be some closer working dogs with great pedigrees, there are a few forum members on here that breed for that testing arena. If you want to go nutz and hit the ground "running" get one of those BDK GSP's in the for sale section. Should do the trick!

German shorthaired pointers are a CHIC breed and the requirements for this health certification may be found at www.offa.org. Hips and elbows, cardiac, vWd, eyes and thyroid are included, I know for sure on CHIC. NAVHDA and other test candidate and dual breeders often fulfill CHIC requirements.

Look into the Deutsch Kurzhaar - versatility that's hard to beat,ALL tested and proven in field,water,forest,temperment and health.

http://www.nadkc.org/testing_ahnentafel.htm

Could you please describe the type of cover/terrain you intend to hunt this GSP? It would make a difference
as to the type of GSP you may want to consider. Shooting Star Kennels (Jim Reiser) in the northern mid-west has been
producing NAVHDA Versatile Champion caliber dogs for years..... as has Sharpshooter Kennels (Clyde & Marilyn Vetter).
You'd be hard pressed to find GSP breeders who consistently produce more versatile dogs in your *relative* area than
these folks. I know you're in Oregon and these breeders are in the northern mid-west. But you're making a 12-14 year
investment, so I'm figuring that where the breeder is located is further down your priority list than what they produce.

Also, and don't take this as a slam by any means- more just poking fun.......
...... my brother-in-law runs Cheassies, he'd claim that Cheassies rule the marsh!

Rob

What kind of hunting will you do with the GSP? Mainly upland with the GSP, continuing to use your lab in the marsh? Or, do you want the GSP to do it all.

What kind of upland birds to you primarily hunt?

Do you want the GSP to hunt close in the upland or do you want the GSP to be wider ranging there?

What kind of terrain are you doing the upland in? Is it big country or tight?

Do you care about tracking work like blood trailing big game with the GSP?

Do you want to do a lot of training with the GSP such that it is steady to wing, shot and drop, or do you want au natura'l such that the dog is likely to flush birds on its own.

Do you want to purchase locally such that you have a close relationship with a breeder/trainer?

Do you want to play dog games like NAVHDA tests, AKC hunt tests, upland field trials, etc. with the GSP?

More as I think of them...

longarm wrote: 1. What are the current health concerns that are tested for when breeding a GSP?
2. In seeking a pup of the highest hunting/field pedigree what specifically should I be looking for?
3. What should a confident breeder offer as far as guarantees when selling a pup?
4. Which are the classic, great books I should be reading re: training a GSP?

1. Hip dysplasia, cone degeneration, in *some* lines, canine lupoid dermatosis, some thyroid, a bit of cardiac. It's pretty common to see OFA, and just one or two other clearances. The GSP gene pool is very good.
2. Look for what, specifically, you want to do. NAVHDA UT1, VC titles if that's the kind of dog that you want. Look for DC if you want to field trial/hunt test and care about the conformation standard. MH is good at times...needs support IMHO. Combinations of these are good.
3. Look for reputation. What is written on paper is pretty worthless.
4. I think the classic is "The Best Way To Train Your Gundog: The Delmar Smith Method" by Smith and Tarrant. In starting a pup, I am currently viewing Puppy I and Puppy II by the Smith brothers who are Delmar's sons. Perfect Start by Perfection Kennels is also good. Training Pointing Dogs by Paul Long gets some props. The Bird Dog Training Manual by Dave Walker. I'm going to draw some flames, but my advice is to stay away from "Gun Dog" by Bill Wolters.

Hope that helps. Greg J.

Dan,

There is such a large gene pool with so many quality GSPs that you will not have a problem finding a quality dog. There are several testing groups and they each have biases about the type of dog that is best. The GSPCA & NGSPA National field trial championships and the hour Species championships are won by the biggest running dogs, with the most stamina, trained to the point they have impeccable manners on birds. Most of these national caliber dogs are also hunted by their owners. Some of these dogs may produce offspring that are more dog than many care to handle. Even with national field trial championships, one is run in AK & one in KS. Few dogs can win or place in both because the conditions require slightly different performances.

For those of us that have GSPs and place the pedigrees on this site, take a gander at the titles included therein. If you do an advanced search on this site for "titles" you will find lots of old threads that explain the various titles and much discussion about the attributes of dogs with various types of titles. If you could answer some of Greg's questions, members may be able to help you narrow your search.

If you look at the first dog in Greg's & my signatures you will see various titles. If you search this site or the internet you can find the orgaizations granting those titles. Check other poster's pedigrees as well. The GSP & the Deutch Kurzhaar (German Shorthaired) both have the same origins, however most would tell you they are different breeds now with loyal supporters of each.

PM sent.

Thank you all for your thoughful responses and PMs. I have been doing my homework on breeds and breeders. So many fine looking dogs, so little time!
At this point I amlLooking at DK and GSP predominantly.

Regarding terrain.. that is something of a loaded question. Oregon is extremely diverse. I get out a lot and need a dog that can hunt in all types of cover, terrain, topography, etc. As I live on the west side of the cascades (the dense, green part of the state) I would like a dog to hunt in close for mountain quail and grouse... however... I make frequent trips to the east side's open desert and sagebrush. There I like to hunt chukar, quail, and dove and the day usually involves miles of hiking through vast open spaces, sometimes gaining/losing thousands of feet of elevation. I'll post a few pics as soon as I figure out how.. but if you are familiar with the breaks of the John Day River you get the idea.

Idealy I would like a dog that locates game for me and holds steady to shot, then retrieves. The dog will have to be athletic and able to run all day. My interest lies entirely in hunting, not in the organized dog games, though I can certainly appreciate the time and effort spent there.

"Could you please describe the type of cover/terrain you intend to hunt this GSP? It would make a difference
as to the type of GSP you may want to consider."
Can you elaborate on this for me?

Again, thanks so much for walking through this. It is an enormous help and I hope to one day soon be able to contribute in some meaningful way to this online community.
Dan

if your lab is by your side constantly your GSP will want to be also (might cause a problem). Other than that I hope your lab has alot of paitence and energy because it will need it. I think mine was born with iron lungs and wheels on it's feet! At 12 weeks she was running a mile every day with me before work.

Dan,

Any well bred shorthair will have alot of success hunting the species you listed. There is a very diverse gene pool in the shorthair breed. It really comes down to how you want the dog to hunt and what you are comfortable with. The way you train the dog will also have a major impact on the way he hunts.

Are you comfortable with the dog being out of sight most of the time? Are you ok with a beeper collar or a bell? Would you rather have a dog that hunts on the inside of 200 yards and checks in often?


I really appreciate a dog that is light on his feet while hunting Chukar. A GSP can cover an immense amount of terrain in just a few hours, ground pounders lose pads quickly in the Chukar hills.

Where are you located in the Valley?


Justin

Justin,
Sent you a PM.

ultracarry,
Two dogs by my side sounds just grand to me! BTW is your online name a reference to the Kimber .45? Good guns.

it's the rest of my dogs name Kimber ultra carry.... ''kimber''. She is a smaller GSP at a year old and 37 pounds. So ya that's where I got the name.