Blasted Puppies

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rapid fire
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Blasted Puppies

Post by rapid fire » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:58 am

I swear I'm about ready to hang this little setter of mine (7 months old.) She is about 99% w/ here when on the check cord and as soon as I let her loose, she goes nuts and flat out loses her mind. She almost got run over today b/c I let her loose (after working her on the CC) and she took off about 200 yds across the field and chased a hawk across the next road. I was trying to train this one w/out the E-collar, but I see one on her in the near future. How did you oldtimers break a dog w/out an E-collar? I would really prefer not to resort to one if at all possible.

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by Birddogz » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:02 am

Throw an e-collar on the dog. Why put yourself through it?
Speak kindly to me, beloved master. Revel in my unconditional love, and give me every minute that you can spare, for my time with you is short.

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rapid fire
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by rapid fire » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:04 am

I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I really had hopes of not using one, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the challenge.

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mcbosco
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by mcbosco » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:19 am

Mine was like that at that age but was more deer related. With the CC on he was an angel, even a short one that he just dragged along. When it came off, he was off to the deer races.

As he matured it just stopped. I did continue using the cord and rewarded him when he didn't bolt.

The deer populations is out of control in NJ and the last thing I wanted him doing was engaging a buck this time of year.

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Ridge-Point
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by Ridge-Point » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:21 am

rapid fire wrote:She is about 99% w/ here when on the check cord and as soon as I let her loose, she goes nuts and flat out loses her mind.
Get her to 100% before you take it off. You need to set her up for failure when you have control so you can correct the mistake. When you do take it off, make the rope shorter and shorter until it's gone. If it was me, I might leave the check cord on her till she was dead broke.
rapid fire wrote:I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I really had hopes of not using one, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth the challenge.
The nice thing about the collar is you don't have to over train with a check cord. The e-collar is just a better tool. Effective well timed corrections at range, what more could you ask for?

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by ACooper » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:54 am

You are not doing yourself any favors by giving commands when the dog can give you the finger and do what it wants when it wants. Same as a collar wise dog you could end up with a dog that only minds on a CC until you break down and collar condition.

Curious as to why no shock collar?

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rapid fire
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by rapid fire » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:12 pm

Just a personal goal. I know dogs were broke long before e-collars came along, so I figured I would give it a try. I will usually start off our walk w/ some training to remind her to return when called. I usually start off w/ her at about 6' and progress out the check cord as we go. When she is recalling at 25', I let go of the check cord and let her get a little further out before calling her back. Once I let her get out of chasing down range, I don't call her back unless she is headed toward trouble or headed in my direction. If she's already headed into me, I will call here and act all excited and love her up good when she gets in. I should give her a little credit. The times she's given me the finger, she was after some sort of game (deer/birds/etc.)

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by ACooper » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:23 pm

Good enough reason for me, good luck. Obviously it can be done. You might look into some longer CC just to continue to reinforce at distance.

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by buckshot0074 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:31 pm

My setter is just 9 months and goes crazy for any bird he sees flying around. I have kept him on a CC for 90% of the time we have been in the field (were we have been hunting is kinda close to a main road) Well last week my friend (the one that has been hunting with us so far this season) talked me into going to the backside of where we have been hunting and letting him go on his own. I was kinda scared but he did very good, IMO. When he would get out about 50-60 yards and I would call him and he would start working his way back to us (most of the time). Everytime we have been out I take a bag of 'treats' and make sure he knows that I have them, when he comes back to us while off the CC I made sure to give him a couple treats.

We aren't having any luck finding wild birds, so next week we are going to a 'preserve' so he can get some live bird action. We will see how he does off the CC with birds.

Good Luck

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:43 pm

Go under google books and look up Er M Shelley Training in the 20th century..this book was published in the early 1900's ..
It wasn't pretty what they resorted to back in the days of no E collar...People keep romanticizing how it was done like it was some nice happy approach
dogs were shot in the rear or they had mounts who whipped dogs back in front of the handler or they sent out a pack of hounds and had mounts beat off the hounds before they killed the dog..think I am joking I have many old books and the E collar is Far more kind then some of the stuff they did back then to get a dog broke.
or whip a dog down..Yes much of this method is described and instructed on how to properly do this

or gunshy dog get a boat tie the dog where it can just jump out of the boat but not fully reach the water ..begin shooting let the dog jump and struggle bring back in the boat and repeat till the dog stops jumping out...

break from chase 50 foot cords let the dog run after the bird and before they reached the end plant yourself and jerk back the opposite direction causing the dog to become airborne and flip them a over teakettle.

They also allowed pups to learn to self hunt for the first year much do to they didn't want to put time into a young dog with no way to vaccinate back then for parvo and distemper and also with the harsh methods you had to have a dog set in the ways to over come the training methods.

So yes after reading many old books this on in particular by Er Shelley I have to say we have come a long in our thoughts and approaches on animals and training
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kninebirddog
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:49 pm

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.

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Don
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by Don » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:27 pm

I don't believe in setting a dog up to fail. Yet everytime you've turned her loose without her check ccord, that's just what you did. The probelm is when you do that without an e-collar, you have no means to reinforce any command. If I were to do what you are doing, she would be on the check cord until she was running at a couple hundred yards dragging it and minding. When you know she's not gonna mind, leave her alone and follow her. Without an e-collar it will be a lot longer training process but still do able. Keep in mind that what she's not bullet proof on at 25', she probably won't do at 30'. Quickest way though is gonna be the collar. One bad thing about the collar is it may encourage you to move beyond a lesson before it's time to move. Ensure each lesson is learned completely before moving on to the next and as you move along, incorperate learned lesson's with new.

I had a client one time with a shorthair that seemed to know quite a bit but did nothing really well. He had been trained by a trainer closer to Portland. I asked the owner how often he visited the trainer and his dog, every weekend. What was wrong became appearent. I asked if every week he was being showed something new, yep! There was the problem. The dog knew a little bit about a whole bunch but did none of it well. Pay attention to the dog and it wioll tell you when it's time to move on.
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rapid fire
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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by rapid fire » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:46 pm

I should clarify about the check cord. She keeps it on even if I don't have ahold of it. I apreciate y'alls comments. We will keep working at it and try not to mess up too much.

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Re: Blasted Puppies

Post by snips » Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:44 pm

Birddogz wrote:Throw an e-collar on the dog. Why put yourself through it?
+1 :roll:
brenda

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