South Dakota Trip 6 month old pup

vanv0048 · Post by **vanv0048** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:46 pm

We're going to be heading out to SD for 4 days first week of Dec. and I was wondering if I should bring my Pup, she'll be a 6 month old Vizsla when we go out been around the gun and listens incredibly well unless thoroughly distracted. She has not yet been on birds. Half my group says get her on birds as quickly as possible half tell me its too young. Thoughts? Thanks in advance

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:25 pm

I agree that you need to get a pup on birds as soon as possible, but I don't think this hunting trip would be the right introduction. In my opinion, there will be too many people and too many guns for it to be a positive experience for the dog.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:35 pm

vanv0048 wrote:We're going to be heading out to SD for 4 days first week of Dec. and I was wondering if I should bring my Pup, she'll be a 6 month old Vizsla when we go out been around the gun and listens incredibly well unless thoroughly distracted. She has not yet been on birds. Half my group says get her on birds as quickly as possible half tell me its too young. Thoughts? Thanks in advance

What size of group in hunting party? - can you hunt alone or with another trusted hunter so you can ensure she doesn't get a 12 guage blast in the ears from close range?

I guess part of the concern could be her stamina - If you are going out all day every day for 4 days, even an adult dog in prime condition would be getting worn down on the last day or two. With a pup, I'd guess you could only hunt a couple hours each day - then you are faced with what to do with her the rest of the day.

I agree: birds= great. Logistics on a 4-day hunt, unfortunately, may be crappy.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:49 pm

Take her. Get her used to the routine. Riding in a kennel, hearing shots, other dogs, etc. Take her out just you and the pup, no one else for an hour or so per day. If she points a bird, kill it. If she doesn't point, but chases and gets excited, don't scold the pup, encourage her. Get that hunting bond established, and get that prey drive up. She may surprise you.

DSemple · Post by **DSemple** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:44 pm

Birddogz wrote:Take her. Get her used to the routine. Riding in a kennel, hearing shots, other dogs, etc. Take her out just you and the pup, no one else for an hour or so per day. If she points a bird, kill it. If she doesn't point, but chases and gets excited, don't scold the pup, encourage her. Get that hunting bond established, and get that prey drive up. She may surprise you.

Great posts so far.

One thing I'd add is use a beeper collar. Lot's of big fields with deep cover. Very easy to lose a young dog up there.

tdhusker · Post by **tdhusker** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:33 pm

DSemple wrote:
Birddogz wrote:Take her. Get her used to the routine. Riding in a kennel, hearing shots, other dogs, etc. Take her out just you and the pup, no one else for an hour or so per day. If she points a bird, kill it. If she doesn't point, but chases and gets excited, don't scold the pup, encourage her. Get that hunting bond established, and get that prey drive up. She may surprise you.
Great posts so far.

One thing I'd add is use a beeper collar. Lot's of big fields with deep cover. Very easy to lose a young dog up there.

I'm with these guys. Take the dog and let her hunt. It would be a mistake not to.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:43 pm

I think it depends on what kind of trip you and your group want. If you are going to do some serious hunting and killing a lot of birds, you should leave the pup home. If you are more concerned with getting your pup introduced to birds, then take him. They are never to young to be introduced to birds, but your group needs to be in agreement or it could turn out to be a less than enjoyable trip. Personally, If am going on a hunting trip with a group, I am not going to take a puppy. JMO.

Charlie

Will · Post by **Will** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:05 pm

Intro birds first...make the connection between gunfire and birds...then take that pup hunting!!

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:50 pm

Birddogz wrote:Take her. Get her used to the routine. Riding in a kennel, hearing shots, other dogs, etc. Take her out just you and the pup, no one else for an hour or so per day. If she points a bird, kill it. If she doesn't point, but chases and gets excited, don't scold the pup, encourage her. Get that hunting bond established, and get that prey drive up. She may surprise you.

I agree with all this. I would get her in some pheasants before you take her. A cackleing pheasant will scare the crap out of a dog sometimes. I would also buy or borrow a tracker or a gps, alot of the places I have hunted in South Dakota are huge cattail patches and if she gets to chasing a runner you may have a heck of a time finding her.

demi · Post by **demi** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:29 am

Lots of good advice has already been given, but I would bring her along. It will be a great opportunity to get her on birds, but take into consideration of the things that have been said. A lot of what you would do with the pup depends on the type of hunting, cover and what your pup is like...

I've been out every weekend with our pup that will be six months old next week. We have hunted all kinds of cover, including very tall CRP. Our groups have been 2 -6 people, and we have had anywhere from 2 - 6 dogs. She has done very well, learning how to use her nose and she has pointed a couple of birds on her own. They were hens so we couldn't shoot them for her, but after pointing a bird she hunted with much more purpose and confidence. She is learning how to play the game. I do have an e-collar on her to keep her safe if necessary, but I give her very little correction.

Good luck and have a great time! What part of the state will you be hunting?

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:02 am

ALL...VERY good suggestions. I am not a fan of too many birds for young dogs and that is what we have run into many times in SD...dozens...even hundreds of birds in a patch of CRP. I would rather see young dogs search, gain independence and have quality bird contacts...try to solidify the desire without practicing bad behaviors. In my experience, tons of pheasant either make a pup wild or overly cautious, depending on the dog. I try to get out young pups early or late in the day in cover where I think there is a chance to catch a pheasant roosting. Let the older dogs worry about how to handle the birds moving from roost to feed, to grit, etc. Wish we could find the huns we had in the early '90's!!!

For me the first 2-3 seasons are about developing the dog...developing the desire, bird savvy, practicing the desired behaviors while trying to avoid the bad.

Just my .02

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:58 pm

My God take that pup with you and give him some wild bird Exposure.You don't have to kill any birds for him if he's not at that point yet.Takle him out alone as much as you can and give him the Exposure of finding wild birds! You can ask the same quetion to six diffderent people and get six different answers.Do what's best for Your pup.

vanv0048 · Post by **vanv0048** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:51 pm

Thanks guys for all the great advice.

It's actually a small group 2-3 guys, there are a few areas where I know we'll run into dozens of birds at once but there are also strips that are workable with for one dog and usually hold a bird or two which is what I want to get her in. We always leave a truck running with heat on for the resting dogs so having a place to have her rest won't be an issue.

I've talked to the other guys in the group and one is a pretty hardcore hunter but understands the concept of breaking in a new dog. My Dad is the other guy in the group and he's just in it for fun.

Do you guys run your puppies with a check cord in the field the first few times or just let them go. She doesn't range out too far in fields we've run without birds and always checks back and has a good understanding of come. We'll see if that happens when she is chasing a bird.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:21 pm

Do you guys run your puppies with a check cord in the field the first few times or just let them go. She doesn't range out too far in fields we've run without birds and always checks back and has a good understanding of come. We'll see if that happens when she is chasing a bird.

I only use a CC during training sessions. I would just let her run and have fun at this age. If she chases, let her chase, don't try to call her while she is chasing. Just let her get bird crazy!!

Charlie

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:31 pm

vanv0048 wrote: she'll be a 6 month old Vizsla

What will she be when you get home ?

Just joking

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:08 pm

vanv0048 wrote:She has not yet been on birds.

Why?

I feel very strongly that only broke dogs should go on "REAL HUNTING TRIPS" and it would be VERY RUDE to bring a pup. Your pup does need bird exposure but it hasn't been very important until now, so why force your so-called puppy training/exposure on your hunting party. Hunting trips cost money and is no place for a puppy that hasn't pointed a bird yet. What if the rest of the group decided to bring puppies. It's just poor edicate. I go on unting trips and I garauntee not a single one of us would even ask another's opinion about bringing a puppy along. ONLY BROKE DOGS ALLOWED.

That being said, get your pup on birds on your time, not your friends :roll: .

I hope you make the right decision

.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:25 pm

I must have more tolerant friends than you do. They wouldn't look down on me for bringing a pup to SD. You most definitely want to use judgment where and when you put the pup down, but come on. Watching a pup learn makes a trip in my book. If my friends don't like that, they can hunt with someone else. It isn't like there is a shortage of pheasants in SD or opportunities to kill them. Most of the time shooting a limit is hard NOT to do.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Birddogz wrote:Watching a pup learn makes a trip in my book.

Who say's the 6 month old visla pup that has never pointed a bird is going to learn anything? More than likely the pup will get in the way and just tag and annoy the hunting dogs. That sounds like a whole lot of fun :roll: .

The key words here are "Hunting Trip". Now, local bird hunting is different as long as it is agreed that there will be puppies working. But, I don't drive hundreds of miles to hunt with a puppy and niether do my friends. It's called respect for others. I will train my pup on my time and bring her on a hunting trip when she is broke and prepared for it.

There is NOTHING cute about a puppy busting and chasing a pointed covey on a hunting trip, NOTHING.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:31 pm

There are very few quail in SD. Almost all phez, especially this time of year. The pup will learn how to go on a hunting trip. Work the pup by itself if it is that big of a deal. Like I said, I have hunted SD for 20 years, and now live in ND. If a pup messes up a few birds, it isn't going to hurt anything, and if a guy can't limit out with a few mistakes, then oh well. (Limiting in SD is not hard)
I don't know where the guy is from, but SD has a ton of wild birds that he probably won't have access to at home. Also it is the socialization and "team" that the pup will get. Not to mention dealing with adversity, and change in environment. Don't leave the dog at home.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:36 pm

It's just rude and selfish. It's not about limits. If you don't understand my opinion that's fine but quit trying to change it. I DON'T TAKE PUPPIES ON HUNTING TRIPS, PERIOD. A no-nothing puppy is just annoying to me when I'm trying to hunt. I expect perfect dog work so I will keep breaking my dogs first on my time and you can do whatever you want.

BTW, I understand pheasants are the South Dakota bird but I prefur quail so I infused covey into my statement :roll: .

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:43 pm

How are you going to expose a dog to birds if there aren't any where you live. The guy is going to SD. What is the harm in taking a puppy if he puts it on the ground by itself, and separates from the group? There is no reason to waste that opportunity.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:27 am

Ha ha. This thread reminds me of a Miller Lite commercial.

Tastes great.

Less filling.

So, the consensus of the GDF folks is the same as the original poster's buddies: half say leave the pup home, half say take the pup hunting.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Sounds like Ron is more concerned about Hunting then giving a pup some experienece eh? Some may call that Selfish eh?
If that's his thing so be it,TAKE YOUR PUP!

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:10 pm

BoJack wrote:Sounds like Ron is more concerned about Hunting then giving a pup some experienece eh? Some may call that Selfish eh?
If that's his thing so be it,TAKE YOUR PUP!

This may be the way you take it, but I guarantee you that Ron is not more concerned about hunting than giving a pup experience. Ron is my friend and hunting partner and we both are more concerned with dog work than killing birds. However, there are times when we want to do some serious hunting, and those are the times we take only broke dogs. I think this is the only point he is trying to make. It is the OP's dog and he should take her if that is what he wants to do. It is really none of our business what he decides, but he is asking for opinions and that is what he is getting.

Charlie

gripper39 · Post by **gripper39** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:15 pm

Got back from SD 2 weeks ago and I took my 8 month old pup and all was good. Although I did put out a disclaimer to others that I hunted with explaining that my pup was very green. I am no pro but it was good to see what the pup needs to work on and what the pups strong points are. Plus with the bird contacts it is less likely for a pup to get bored.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:45 pm

vanv0048 wrote:We're going to be heading out to SD for 4 days first week of Dec. and I was wondering if I should bring my Pup, she'll be a 6 month old Vizsla when we go out been around the gun and listens incredibly well unless thoroughly distracted. She has not yet been on birds. Half my group says get her on birds as quickly as possible half tell me its too young. Thoughts? Thanks in advance

Regardless of age, my dogs travel along anytime I take a trip. Acclimation to travel, new sights, new sounds, the smell of dead game birds in the truck, exposure to birds in the field, IMO it's all good. If, where & when you put her down in a field just requires some judgment. There should be opportunities to let her run without interfering with others in the party. If you are going to run her in a hunting situation just use common sense and if others will be present, get their okay in advance. She is not too young to be put on birds but could be a little young to run with others during a hunt, especially without their prior consent.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:43 pm

Be quiet. Common sense is not allowed.

Take the pup, and use some sense. My goodness, this is stupid.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:29 pm

"but he is asking for opinions and that is what he is getting."

Exactly.So it sounds like you and Ron maybe better move to that next ridge with them Broke dogs if yous see any pups coming.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:33 pm

BoJack wrote:"but he is asking for opinions and that is what he is getting."

Exactly.So it sounds like you and Ron maybe better move to that next ridge with them Broke dogs if yous see any pups coming.

Huh?? :roll:

Charlie

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:38 pm

BigShooter wrote:
vanv0048 wrote:We're going to be heading out to SD for 4 days first week of Dec. and I was wondering if I should bring my Pup, she'll be a 6 month old Vizsla when we go out been around the gun and listens incredibly well unless thoroughly distracted. She has not yet been on birds. Half my group says get her on birds as quickly as possible half tell me its too young. Thoughts? Thanks in advance
Regardless of age, my dogs travel along anytime I take a trip. Acclimation to travel, new sights, new sounds, the smell of dead game birds in the truck, exposure to birds in the field, IMO it's all good. If, where & when you put her down in a field just requires some judgment. There should be opportunities to let her run without interfering with others in the party. If you are going to run her in a hunting situation just use common sense and if others will be present, get their okay in advance. She is not too young to be put on birds but could be a little young to run with others during a hunt, especially without their prior consent.

Ditto!!!

Charlie

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:18 pm

Can't change colors now Charlie you already said Only Broke dogs.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:45 pm

BoJack,

Lighten up a little. Read Charlie's first post or two in this thread. You know, not everybody says things just exactly the way they want to in each & every post. We need to cut one another a little slack once in a while. I think the OP had it figured out before we all posted. At first it sounded like the OP was going as part of a larger sized group but with only two other participants their communication should be very good and the whole pup thing will end up being a non-issue.

I hope he'll report back about their experiences. It should be a fun trip.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:49 pm

Yea you're right.Enjoy 'em which ever way you choose.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:21 am

BoJack wrote:Sounds like Ron is more concerned about Hunting then giving a pup some experienece eh?

birddogger wrote: there are times when we want to do some serious hunting, and those are the times we take only broke dogs. I think this is the only point he is trying to make.

Bojack, I'm not sure what kind of hunting trips you take but for us it is a big deal. In our little circle we take only our best 2 or three dogs and leave the puppies at home. Now, if someone has a 10 or 12 month old dog that is broke on birds, whoa broke and will handle then bring him/her, but none of us would ever concider bringing a pup that has never pointed a bird. Our hunting trips are about us and the dogs that have earned the right to go, so if that makes me selfish then so be it. Hunting trips are vacations to us. We wake up, hunt behind broke dogs, eat, hunt some more then go back to the motel and put a good buzz on. A 6 month old pup is utterly useless to us this year

, now next year is a different story

.

Hopefully you can understand my position on puppies and hunting trips a little better.

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:40 am

birddogger wrote:I think it depends on what kind of trip you and your group want. If you are going to do some serious hunting and killing a lot of birds, you should leave the pup home. If you are more concerned with getting your pup introduced to birds, then take him. They are never to young to be introduced to birds, but your group needs to be in agreement or it could turn out to be a less than enjoyable trip. Personally, If am going on a hunting trip with a group, I am not going to take a puppy. JMO.

Charlie

Good Post

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:16 am

I can see your point now.

vanv0048 · Post by **vanv0048** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:17 pm

Well I just got back from the trip and for the most part things went well. However, I do owe my friend a gun sock which he left dangling in her kennel. She didn't point anything but actually got up a few birds some by accident some intentionally including a rooster right in front of me but her owner was to preoccupied with her and forgot to load his gun, oh well. She worked pretty well with another guys pointer and she would honor the other dogs point for a few seconds, before losing patience and jumping in. When she was kind off to one side with me she'd hunt a bit and then get distracted with trying to find something to chew on, very puppy at times but fun to watch none the less. One bad habit that will need to be fixed is when the field was done and the group was heading back to the vehicle she would bolt for the truck, she responded to all commands in the field but I could not keep her from bolting to the truck after the field. Any suggestion? Also, do you guys have recommendations for training books for pointers specifically on steps to take to get them to gain confidence in pointing? She points at stuff all the time when we're playing catch or shes playing in the house, I just need some help in developing that in the field.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:18 pm

I had a pup once that I took to ND with a group of 6 guys and about 10 dogs when he was 6 months. It worked out pretty good for him. 2xCh. Nella Running Tab.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:21 pm

vanv0048 wrote:Well I just got back from the trip and for the most part things went well. However, I do owe my friend a gun sock which he left dangling in her kennel. She didn't point anything but actually got up a few birds some by accident some intentionally including a rooster right in front of me but her owner was to preoccupied with her and forgot to load his gun, oh well. She worked pretty well with another guys pointer and she would honor the other dogs point for a few seconds, before losing patience and jumping in. When she was kind off to one side with me she'd hunt a bit and then get distracted with trying to find something to chew on, very puppy at times but fun to watch none the less. One bad habit that will need to be fixed is when the field was done and the group was heading back to the vehicle she would bolt for the truck, she responded to all commands in the field but I could not keep her from bolting to the truck after the field. Any suggestion? Also, do you guys have recommendations for training books for pointers specifically on steps to take to get them to gain confidence in pointing? She points at stuff all the time when we're playing catch or shes playing in the house, I just need some help in developing that in the field.

When she bolts for the truck give her the command "here" or whatever you use and stimulate her with electricity. Always works for me.

demi · Post by **demi** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:11 pm

Glad to hear you took her along and things went well...It sounds like she did good for her age. My pup is 5 1/2 months and we have had her out hunting nearly every weekend. I saw lots of the same puppy behavior prior to this last weekend. She would hunt a little and then find the other dog and look to see what she was doing, go follow her around for a while...chase bunny rabbits and weeds flying in the breeze....

Last weekend, it was like a light bulb turned on, and she was mostly all business. We had eight hunters and eight dogs. She paid little attention to them and worked most of the day, and even continued to work once we got back to the truck...She has pointed a little, but nothing has really held long enough for me to flush anything for her, she honors very well though, retrieves some, and she did track a rooster running through a food plot, I saw him flush at the end, but I had already put the gun away as we had walked through there earlier....another missed opportunity because I wasn't ready. (!)

As far as pointing goes, I will continue working her on wild birds for the rest of the hunting season, and maybe longer as we can do that here in South Dakota, (just no shooting at them after the season ends). If needed I will put some birds in launchers this spring, as I plan on NA testing her sometime in May/June. Other people with more experience may have better ideas for you, but this is what I plan on doing. Good luck with her!

BrittGSP818 · Post by **BrittGSP818** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:56 pm

This is an opportunity that most of us wish for when we have a pup. TAKE YOUR PUP. It needs to expereince all the sounds and smells of real hunting. A wild birds can teach a dog way more than any professional trainer can. If you think she is bold enough to handle all the scenarios that may come about, then by all means expose her to her "trainers." Good luck and enjoy the trip, wish I could have an opportunity to take myself and my pup out to SD.