BigShooter wrote:When hitting thick cover my dogs search for scent. I try to hunt upwind or cross wind. The dogs generally will work cross wind, back & forth until they catch scent. Depending upon the quality of the scent they will either continue a natural widshield wiper pattern (with poor scent) or they may then move more upwind in a more forward type of movement. The quartering they do is natural & learned by hunting wild birds. It's personal preference but I prefer a dog that doesn't require quartering training or human intervention to cover a field appropriately.
The less quality scent in the cover the more the dog will naturally range to seek scent and birds. Also if they are not finding quality scent they quickly scan & move toward objectives that based upon experience, look good to them.
Ryman Gun Dog wrote:WynDancer,
Not sure what you mean by the breed really suffers, respect from the hunters, Please explain, the Gordons I am familiar with here and in Scotland
are Grouse hunting dogs and well respected by the hunters who own them.
Birddogz wrote:That is why I like the VDD system. There are only hunting dogs. Less confusing. What would be really neat is if there were breed wardens in the U.S. Not that you couldn't breed any dog you wanted, it would just not be registered as a "hunting bred dog." Only allow dogs that have been successful in NAVHDA, NSTRA, etc. to breed. Allow someone who is interested in hunting to know whether they are getting a hunting dog or a show dog. A dog could be both, but the stud and bitch must be winning in some form of hunting tests.
Birddogz wrote: I would have no trouble buying the winingest dog in Navhda stud with the winingest bitch out of NSTRA.
Birddogz wrote:You are not understanding me. I'm saying they can compete in any dog venue they want. AA, NAVHDA, NASTRA, Cover trials, etc., the only stipulation would be both dogs would have to be successful in some bird dog venue before breeding. Conformation should also be considered. If only elite dogs are allowed to breed, the breed would be in better shape than ever.
Greg Jennings wrote:A lot of time, the quartering vs objectives argument is the people arguing not asking questions of each other and setting context before they start the argument.
BigShooter wrote:Greg Jennings wrote:A lot of time, the quartering vs objectives argument is the people arguing not asking questions of each other and setting context before they start the argument.
Smart gun dogs with good noses seek birds, preferably by scent but also by sight when scent isn't encountered. Human's apply terms to what many dog's do naturally in seeking scent on the wind (moving back & forth across wind currents taking air samples) or with no scent in the vacinity, looking for and advancing to likely areas that may hold birds.
Once strong scent is encountered dogs turn to a more direct pursuit pattern.
Enough with the labels already.
Birddogz wrote: I have been called out many times because I say my dogs hunt like wind shield wipers in thick cover. I could never understand why that was a bad thing.
Not saying that others wouldn't continue to breed without the approval, but a person that isn't well studied in bird dog games could rest assured they were getting a quality hunting dog with that "stamp" of approval from a bird dog board. No more AKC registered dogs that should never have been bred. It happens ALL the time, and it isn't a good thing.
We produce far more good pups than there are good hands to train them...that's the real concern.
What I would really like to see is an enforceable minimum standard for breeding.
And I am not calling you out, but even my Boykins do not hunt in a wind shield wiper fashion, were they to, the would be up wind about half the time. There is always objectives, places in even the thickest, most homogenous of cover that are more likely to hold birds, unless they are in transition.
My dogs will move back in forth in front of me, but will use the wind so as to not go nearly as far one way as the other, with pointing dogs, it is even more pronounced, they seem to learn the distance of their scenting ability and use it to their advantage so as to not have to cover non-productive ground.
all of the wardens in the world will not do the job much better than you can if you use the info available.