A question for those who have lots of Experience with GSP's

[TAK]

I have seen one AKC GSP dog that had the Fuzzy coat also. This was a pup from a Sonny son.

[Cajun Casey]

Do you have DNA on the mother? She's shown to be a Rodie daughter, I believe.

The fuzzy/fluffy/long coat on GSP pups is not unheard of. They usually grow out to dense undercoated dogs. I ran into it for the first time this fall. Every generation of the baby's family has one or more undercoated dogs.

[Dave Quindt]

Did it have a fuzzy coat is whole life or just as a puppy? How the heck can that show up in 2 whole litters when none of the parents, grandparents or any dog that I know of in the pedigree have it?

Welcome to the wonderful world of recessive genes.

[Cajun Casey]

While it is not a color trait, the length of a dog's coat is of interest to many. It has recently been demonstrated that in many breeds, the gene FGF5 is responsible for whether a dog has a long coat (rough or fluffy), or a short (smooth) coat. The test Vetgen offers detects the presence or absence of the recessive allele that results in long coats when present in two copies, and as such allows dogs with short coats that carry a hidden "long coat" allele to be detected.

(c) 2010 VetGen

[Cajun Casey]

While it is not a color trait, the length of a dog's coat is of interest to many. It has recently been demonstrated that in many breeds, the gene FGF5 is responsible for whether a dog has a long coat (rough or fluffy), or a short (smooth) coat. The test Vetgen offers detects the presence or absence of the recessive allele that results in long coats when present in two copies, and as such allows dogs with short coats that carry a hidden "long coat" allele to be detected.

(c) 2010 VetGen

So does that mean that both females carry it as recessive?

Will a male in a situation like this throw that in every litter?

I would say if there is a recessive at work, then all the dogs are carrying it. It is not so simple as having two copies of the allele resulting in a long coat. There are additional genes for HOW long, and modifiers which will act along with the main length loci.

The pups may simply have the dense undercoat or their hair may grow out in the fashion of a Langhaar or Munsterlander. Only time will tell. I would look for feathering on the ear edges and tail and backs of the legs. If that doesn't develop, then they are probably not going to have noticeably long hair.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Shawn I have had pups with both fuzzy coats & a little white around the ears though not necessarily on the same dogs.The fuzzy coats normally change into just thicker heavier coats as the dogs mature.I believe the older German type with roman noses etc.had a little thicker coats with more under coat then the GSPS of today.Anyway my first GSPS did 35 or so yrs ago.

[BdBHunts]

I'm starting to see some advantages to that type of coat for northern hunters

I would try and market that if I were you. Many people suggest a wirehaired dog for late season work but they collect iceballs. A nice thick coated GSP would do well in the latter part of the season.

This dog has a beautiful thick coat, excellent for late season waterfowl, closest I have seen to a Lab coat. A lot of KS dogs in the background.

[redman25]

I'm starting to see some advantages to that type of coat for northern hunters

I would try and market that if I were you. Many people suggest a wirehaired dog for late season work but they collect iceballs. A nice thick coated GSP would do well in the latter part of the season.

This dog has a beautiful thick coat, excellent for late season waterfowl, closest I have seen to a Lab coat. A lot of KS dogs in the background.

That is a good looking dog

[TAK]

I have seen one AKC GSP dog that had the Fuzzy coat also. This was a pup from a Sonny son.

Did it have a fuzzy coat is whole life or just as a puppy? How the heck can that show up in 2 whole litters when none of the parents, grandparents or any dog that I know of in the pedigree have it?

When I seen the dog it was around a year or so old.... Everything about the dog was GSP just seemed to have a little longer hair/fuzz.. almost like a horse in the winter.

Now I have a dog that is out of DNA'd parents also and he has deep deer like hair. Also if you look close he has some feathering off his legs and under his belly.

If I get a chance I'll take a picture of it. You have to look close to see it but once you do you can see it.

[jasonw99]

looks like alot of pointer by the markings on the head

[ACooper]

looks like alot of pointer by the markings on the head

Ha ha. Are you serious?

[Birddogz]

Shady, I think the thick coat is a blessing. Of course, I live in ND.

[jasonw99]

d

[snips]

Do you have a recent pic of the pup? Did you see the pic of my pup? Pretty long coat on that guy. Rick said it goes back to Wendys dam Jutta..(German). We had another dog with a coat like that Rick has now, at a yr old he has a beautiful coat. Fuzz left somewhere along the line.

[ElhewPointer]

Just drop it Jason. Sounder minds have already prevailed. At this point you're just making yourself look dumb.

1. It's orange, not lemon in pointers (as a registered color anyway)
2. Pointers have shorthair the same as GSP's, not long hair coats.
3. Black has been around in GSP's from the very begining of the breed. It just wasn't popular in the U.S. until recently thus folks that have not done their own due diligence make comments such as you have.
4. You are doing this post absolutely no good at all. You obviously have little or no experience (relatively speaking) so you should stick to "general chat" posts that don't need the voice of experience.
5. When a person is looking for answers it is rude to put in comments that are off topic.

Its actually not that far of base. Its been happening for years.
1. You might want to check your experience. You can register pointers lemon.
2. He was answering the question because some pointer bloodlines(Rock Acre Blackhawk) has setter in it and throws some long hair stuff from time to time.
4. He could be giving you the right answer. Did he go about it the right way, maybe not. But it could be the answer.
5. Its not off topic.

[Trekmoor]

I am not an experienced G.S.P. breeder and have no comment to make on the colour question. In Scotland I saw my first GSP's back in the late 1960's.
The coats on dogs back then and for some years after that were a bit thicker than I usually see today. Personally, with Scotlands climate :roll: I prefer the thicker coated dogs. Both the thicker coated dogs and the thin coated dogs worked very well up on the grouse moors in August and September but the thinner coated dogs often looked a bit miserable later in the year when the weather became both cold and wet and windy.

I think that in Britain, thinly coated G.S.P.'s have been bred for not because they work better but because they look like they might .......... they look sleeker.

Bill T.

[raven34]

Sky our 10 month old.... She as a puppy was very fuzzy... She had a different coat than the rest of the pups in our litter. She now has a smooth coat, although it is much softer, but denser than our other dogs. Her coat is a blessing. She loves being outside in the cold weather... This is a wonderful thing!!!! Here she is now.

DSC07483.jpg

[fuzznut]

No where in the GSP breed standard does it state the head must be liver, either solid or with a blaze. It does not state the ears are to be solid liver, or liver at all. It is what most are used to however and seeing something different can be a bit of a shock.

I've seen half headed shorthairs, some from heavy show lines. Doubt there is any pointer in them.

About 20 plus years ago there were littermates that had longer coats, almost wavy down their backs. Their coats were soft, not hard. Both were trialed in the east and were fairly successful.

The GWP standard calls for the head and ears to be liver, sometimes with a blaze. We see quite a few mis- marks with white over the eye, or white on ears. it's not wanted but doesn't hurt the dog for it's working ability. These mis marked dogs come from both white dogs and very dark dogs. Some will tick in enough that unless you were looking for it, you would never see the white hairs where they shouldn't be. We've also kind of figured out many of these odd markings come when there are solid liver dogs back there.....odd but seems to hold water when discussed.

[scott townsend]

I have been breeding GSP's for around 25 yrs. You will get an occasional fuzzy coat, as others have said it generally goes away in the first year.After looking at the litter I would be waay more concerned about all the white on the faces then I would be about the coat. It is not uncommon to get a wide blaze here and there but that litter looks like most if not all have uncommonly marked heads for GSP's. Those pups can be hard to sell as most people want a typically marked GSP. Myself, being I got that many in a littermarked like that , that cross would never be made again.

[Fieldmaster]

I agree with Scott here. I wouldn't make that cross again and would not be advertising it as "EXTREMELY RARE" or a "STROKE OF GOOD FORTUNE" sounds to much like you are selling Snake Oil.

Robert

[ElhewPointer]

I agree with Scott here. I wouldn't make that cross again and would not be advertising it as "EXTREMELY RARE" or a "STROKE OF GOOD FORTUNE" sounds to much like you are selling Snake Oil.

Robert

hmmmmmmm?

[Cajun Casey]

How many of them are left? Looks like on your website that 9 of the 13 have gone unsold, but it hasn't been updated in a while.

[scott townsend]

Having gone to your website and looking at your GSP litters for sale. There two litters with the fuzzy coats. The males to each litter is the same. The females in both litters are unrelated ( look to be from totally different bloodlines) So what is the common denominator in the two litters????? The male, Kojac, that is where your fuzzy pups are coming from.

Also just because the dogs have DNA results does not mean they can't be crossed. DNA simple proves parentage is does not prove breed type.

If I take a DNA swab from an EP female and send it in as a GSP female and register that. I could breed my male (DNA'ed) GSP to the female EP and have DNA results on both sides. That is where allot of todays half white heads, white ears, extra wide blazes, come from in the GSP world.

[Fieldmaster]

On the coat, I REALLY like it and I don't agree with Fieldmaster at all. Everyone else has really liked it too. I see some major advantages to it for northern climates if what everyone that actually has dogs with it are correct in their analysis. I'll stick with their opinions since they have experience with it. FieldMaster- please remember what the thread is for and what it's not for and irrelevant opinions and slanderous words would fall into the "not for". There has been much discussion on this forum here lately about how comments that in no way pertain to threads should just be kept to oneself or if a person just can't resist, the proper thing to do would be to send it via PM.

Just calling it like I see it !!!!!!

You call it EXTREMELY RARE" or a "STROKE OF GOOD FORTUNE" :roll: :roll:

[Fieldmaster]

The coat is neither. You'll find some coats like this coming German blood sush as Jutta Vom Bugelhof, Graff Vom Vehner Moor, and Pottsiepen blood to name a few. I like the thicker, tad longer, heavier coat living in N. MN.. There are some quality breeders that look to this type coat in there brood stock. American Ft'ers transformed the GSP into what suited there needs. Was it through selective breeding or cross breeding to EPs.. IMO i think some of both.

Howie,
I agree with you 100%.

"EXTREMELY RARE" or a "STROKE OF GOOD FORTUNE" was the words of Shady Meadows used in an effort to help sell these puppies. Nothing rare about it at all.

Robert