i almost dont want to start this but...

[proudag08]

I heard the names Rusty's Blue Earth and Impressive... Anyone know anything about these "blood lines"?

[mrcreole]

Yes, FC Rusty's Blue Earth Rexx was a son of Dixieland's Rusty. The Impressive stems from DC Shillrest's Impressive.You saw Rob Martin and Scott Thomas's dogs this weekend didn't you? Those dogs are the backbone of Rob's breeding. You can't argue with his record. Hi-Tailyn on this board won the National Amateur Gundog Championship with a Sister to one of Rob's dogs and has based a very succesful horseback breeding program on her. Look at the two peds on my signature. I know Rob has a litter on the way. There is also a repeat breeding of my Mae dog below on the ground now if you are interested.

[proudag08]

Ha ha ha yes I did see their dogs. However, they hunted farther out, range wise, than I think I want for a first dog. I am interested in finding a line that will hunt with the drive that those dogs have, and have the apparent bidability but maybe not at 200+ yards. There was an older Scott Thomas dog out there that hunted a lot closer but I suspect it was because of her age...

Can you tell me which kennels breed these lines? I just tried to catch the owners names. I also heard the name Lester Arnold in discussion of some quality dogs as well. Does that ring any bells?

[ACooper]

Ha ha ha yes I did see their dogs. However, they hunted farther out, range wise, than I think I want for a first dog. I am interested in finding a line that will hunt with the drive that those dogs have, and have the apparent bidability but maybe not at 200+ yards. There was an older Scott Thomas dog out there that hunted a lot closer but I suspect it was because of her age...

Can you tell me which kennels breed these lines? I just tried to catch the owners names. I also heard the name Lester Arnold in discussion of some quality dogs as well. Does that ring any bells?

Much of the range a dog will have is developed or better yet not allowed to develop. It works both ways. You can get a pup out of hard going parents, from the very beginning checkcord the pup, talk to it while you are taking it out for a run, run the pup in heavy cover and just generally encourage the pup to stay close. Doing these things CAN help a dog to hunt closer as an adult.

Rob has nice dogs, I know of an owner trained Navhda VC and MH out his stuff.

[Dave Quindt]

Steve Lithgow owned Rexx; his website is http://www.waycoolkennels.com (seems to go up and down). Steve is, to my knowledge, out of the FT game and has been for a while. Rexx passed away in 2001.

As a producer, Rexx produced everything from NSTRA champions to the only GSP in the modern era to win an American Field all breed all-age championship. There was never a formally establish Rexx "bloodline".

As has been mentioned earlier, the "Impressive" stuff you mentioned probably came from Rob Martin's stuff. Info available here: http://www.germanbirddogs.com .

FYI,
Dave

[JKP]

Much of the range a dog will have is developed or better yet not allowed to develop. It works both ways. You can get a pup out of hard going parents, from the very beginning checkcord the pup, talk to it while you are taking it out for a run, run the pup in heavy cover and just generally encourage the pup to stay close. Doing these things CAN help a dog to hunt closer as an adult.

There are so many good sources for GSP, that to me it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need rather than a 400 yd dog and hope that you can condition it to hunt at 150yds. It is possible but I guess my thinking is if you need a pick up you buy a pick up rather than modify the Corvette.

[Dave Quindt]

There are so many good sources for GSP, that to me it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need rather than a 400 yd dog and hope that you can condition it to hunt at 150yds. It is possible but I guess my thinking is if you need a pick up you buy a pick up rather than modify the Corvette.

Sounds great, except the supposed "150 yard dog" and the "400 yard dog" are basically the same dog, and far from being a Corvette. The 150 yard dog that is a complete knucklehead and requires a ton of pressure to train will end up as the 400 yard dog and the 400 yard dog that is intelligent and bidable will become that 150 yard dog and never develop into that 400 yard dog.

Range is not a trait; it is the byproduct of different traits, all of which are greatly influenced by how the dog is developed, both intentionally and unintentionally.

I have found that there is an inverse relationship between obsession with range and meaningful experience with birddogs. The guys I know who really understand birddogs, regardless of whether they are hunters or trialers or whatever, never describe dogs or litters as "150 yard dogs". Never is a dog described as being a XX-yard dog. They focus on things like bidability and intelligence and nose and point and independence. The guys who just want to talk, or want to use range as a proxy war to discuss trialing vs other forms of testing, obsess over range.

We need to be focusing new folks like the original poster on traits like intelligence and bidability and stability so they end up with highly trainable dogs that can be developed into whatever the owner needs in a hunting companion.

"it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need..."

How exactly does a guy who doesn't own a dog and by his own admission is "learning to bird hunt" know what range he needs?

JMO,
Dave

[cody]

Well said

[Greg Jennings]

Don't look at a line. Look at the dog. If you can't look at the dog, look at full siblings. If no full siblings, look at the. pRents and what they have thrown.

[kensfishing]

There are so many good sources for GSP, that to me it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need rather than a 400 yd dog and hope that you can condition it to hunt at 150yds. It is possible but I guess my thinking is if you need a pick up you buy a pick up rather than modify the Corvette.

Sounds great, except the supposed "150 yard dog" and the "400 yard dog" are basically the same dog, and far from being a Corvette. The 150 yard dog that is a complete knucklehead and requires a ton of pressure to train will end up as the 400 yard dog and the 400 yard dog that is intelligent and bidable will become that 150 yard dog and never develop into that 400 yard dog.

Range is not a trait; it is the byproduct of different traits, all of which are greatly influenced by how the dog is developed, both intentionally and unintentionally.

I have found that there is an inverse relationship between obsession with range and meaningful experience with birddogs. The guys I know who really understand birddogs, regardless of whether they are hunters or trialers or whatever, never describe dogs or litters as "150 yard dogs". Never is a dog described as being a XX-yard dog. They focus on things like bidability and intelligence and nose and point and independence. The guys who just want to talk, or want to use range as a proxy war to discuss trialing vs other forms of testing, obsess over range.

We need to be focusing new folks like the original poster on traits like intelligence and bidability and stability so they end up with highly trainable dogs that can be developed into whatever the owner needs in a hunting companion.

"it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need..."

How exactly does a guy who doesn't own a dog and by his own admission is "learning to bird hunt" know what range he needs?

JMO,
Dave

Very well said Dave. Your can take the run out of a dog at a young age, but you CANNOT put run in a dog.

[snips]

Lester's a great guy and a good hand with a dog...

[mrcreole]

Ag, I completely agree with Dave. With that said, Lester breeds similar dogs to Rob......He likes the Shillrest's Impressive stuff as well. Brenda, did you ever see that dog (Impressive)? Or any of you guys for that matter; what did you think of him?

Ag, what did you think about Doug's dogs? His are Brenda's lines (Snips). I always liked Rosie, she is a sister to Rick and Brenda's Fritz. Fritz was also the sire of Greg's dog Gunner. Rosie ranges closer, not super speedy, but she WILL NOT miss a bird. That dog has a fabulous nose. I would love to hunt that dog on woodcock.

[Dave Quindt]

Very well said Dave. Your can take the run out of a dog at a young age, but you CANNOT put run in a dog.

Thanks, but I hate to break it to you - that ain't what I'm saying.

You can certainly put run in a dog; seen it done a hundred times. Teach a dog what objectives to focus on (usually 5 to 25% of the cover) and what to ignore, teach him to run forward and not behind and teach him not to yo-yo back and forth and what other choice does he have but to run bigger?

You can certainly reel a dog in, sometimes. Seen that work some, and fail too as well.

There are dogs that with all of the patterning in the world ain't going to run and there are dogs with all the hacking in the world ain't going to shorten up. There are dogs too stupid or stubborn to be trained, dogs that need to be taught to stand their birds or need a ton of pressure to get them to retrieve. All are a pain in the a** to deal with and there, even though some of these dogs succeed in EVERY testing and trialing format. Every one have some of these dogs; the ones that succeed despite their natural abilities and not because of them.

But then there's a pool of dogs in the middle; well-balanced dogs that as pups can be developed into whatever you want them to be. They don't need to be coddled but they don't need a heavy hand either. They may run big or they may not, but when they get around birds they HUNT and POINT. They may run big as pups but that run is tempered by the fact that they want you around, or they might be shorter ranging pups but that desire for birds is always stretching them out.

A well-balanced dog with an abundance of natural ability will be a great fit for an intelligent sportsman anywhere in this nation; and with proper development be able to play most any dog game. These are dogs that don't need to be pushed OR reeled in!

JMO,
Dave

[Crestonegsp]

Terry Chandler still has some dogs with Rexx as the sire, I think he is going to breed a Rexx daughter to a Marshall son. I have a Rexx grandson and 2 Rexx granddaughters. They are great dogs that learn quickly and retain what they have been taught. They are great dogs that do what ever you ask of them.

[kbshorthairs]

ol Dave Quindt knows his stuff.

[Hattrick]

Call this guy his blood lines are great sum of the best in NAVHDA an AKC .. Vary trainable dogs with noses second to none, i no he has two litters planned for spring. You won`t be dissapointed

FRIEDELSHEIM GSPs

Donnie Ebersole
Williamsport, MD 21795
PHONE: (301) 223-5622

E-mail us:
info@friedelsheim-gsp.com

[snips]

Ag, I completely agree with Dave. With that said, Lester breeds similar dogs to Rob......He likes the Shillrest's Impressive stuff as well. Brenda, did you ever see that dog (Impressive)? Or any of you guys for that matter; what did you think of him?

Ag, what did you think about Doug's dogs? His are Brenda's lines (Snips). I always liked Rosie, she is a sister to Rick and Brenda's Fritz. Fritz was also the sire of Greg's dog Gunner. Rosie ranges closer, not super speedy, but she WILL NOT miss a bird. That dog has a fabulous nose. I would love to hunt that dog on woodcock.

You got pretty educated on lines! Rosie is 9 yrs old now, shoulda seen her couple yrs ago! She is amazing on Sharpies! Dougs young dog is very nice too..Just getting started....

[DGFavor]

I've got two Rexx grandsons and a Rexx granddaughter fwiw...some other dogs in their trees too of course...but I really, really, like the dogs I've owned/seen that have Rexx close up in their ped. I had a Rexx son also that was phenomenal and sired a couple of my current dogs. All super in the field and awesome in the home.

Bugs:




Stone:




Trixie:




One of my bestest hunting buddies has a Rexx grandson too that I gave him (out of my Rexx son):

[Cajun Casey]

I have a double great-granddaughter of Rexx and two brother grandsons. They are all terrific natural retrievers and extremely durable no-quit dogs. One of the boys was very easy going and a breeze to train. The other boy was a bit slow to mature and the girl takes a little reminding. They all have quite a bit more Rusty in their pedigrees. I wouldn't recommend a dog like any of them for a first dog.

[proudag08]

Ag, what did you think about Doug's dogs? His are Brenda's lines (Snips). I always liked Rosie, she is a sister to Rick and Brenda's Fritz. Fritz was also the sire of Greg's dog Gunner. Rosie ranges closer, not super speedy, but she WILL NOT miss a bird. That dog has a fabulous nose. I would love to hunt that dog on woodcock.

I did get to see Rosie, but unfortunately I did not get to see her hunt. However, what you described above is what I am looking for. I have heard great things about Brenda's dogs but I think their kennel is just too far to justify the cost of not just the pup but the shipment as well. I would love a Walnut Hills dog (as a matter of fact I cant bring myself to take them off my "list of possible kennels" even though they are the only ones not in TX). If I could find a breeder in TX that is breeding similar dogs to Rosie and Doug’s younger dog, that would be ideal. I also saw some Blue Earth dogs that ran well. The one I saw run was Ayla, handled by Jason Hyler. She was a great dog.

You got pretty educated on lines! Rosie is 9 yrs old now, shoulda seen her couple yrs ago! She is amazing on Sharpies! Dougs young dog is very nice too..Just getting started....

I talked to Doug about this dog over the phone. He is really excited about that dog and what its future may hold.

ol Dave Quindt knows his stuff.

Thanks for all the info Dave. Keep it coming if you have any more!


Thank you all for helping me... I can feel the answers coming a little easier now and I am learning more and more about what I really want in a dog. As far as the putting range into or taking range away from a dog conversation goes, I am looking for bidability/ intelligence first, then their nose, then their range. I don’t care if the dog only goes 150 yards out as long as I know that we definitely didn’t miss a bird...

[Birddogz]

Much of the range a dog will have is developed or better yet not allowed to develop. It works both ways. You can get a pup out of hard going parents, from the very beginning checkcord the pup, talk to it while you are taking it out for a run, run the pup in heavy cover and just generally encourage the pup to stay close. Doing these things CAN help a dog to hunt closer as an adult.

There are so many good sources for GSP, that to me it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need rather than a 400 yd dog and hope that you can condition it to hunt at 150yds. It is possible but I guess my thinking is if you need a pick up you buy a pick up rather than modify the Corvette.

One of the WISEST statements I have ever read on this forum. Don't create a fight that you don't need to.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Charlie Rose (www.wildrosegermanshorthairs.com) in Seymour Texas has the Dixieland Rusty bred dogs if you like what you have seen by Rexx.

[Dirtysteve]

Good to see you here again Ted

I owned this dog (Roxxy)for awhile and it was very "rexx" bred. Got her right from Steve
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=844
Shipped her and her sister in. Her sister is a big running dog that was hard headed and kinda hard to break but turned out to be a very nice dog.
Roxxy had an extremely good nose but became crossed eyed? Don't know why? As a very young pup it was ok but by 6 months you could start seeing something was wrong with her left eye. It eventually became very crossed eyed. I gave her away to a hunting family and she turned out great for them. Very natural and a great retriever. The only complaint they have is she is almost too big a running dog for what they want.

Anybody familiar with these lines ever seen anything like this? Maybe too tight a breeding?

[ACooper]

Much of the range a dog will have is developed or better yet not allowed to develop. It works both ways. You can get a pup out of hard going parents, from the very beginning checkcord the pup, talk to it while you are taking it out for a run, run the pup in heavy cover and just generally encourage the pup to stay close. Doing these things CAN help a dog to hunt closer as an adult.

There are so many good sources for GSP, that to me it would seem wisest just to get a pup from lines with the range you need rather than a 400 yd dog and hope that you can condition it to hunt at 150yds. It is possible but I guess my thinking is if you need a pick up you buy a pick up rather than modify the Corvette.

Wasn't talking about "hacking or breaking range" you have to admit that the majority of pups run bigger or stay closer dependent on how they are allowed to develop. Range is only based on how dogs are bred.

[MillerClemsonHD]

proudag08

Remember you are still very early in this process, don't rule out a 200yd running dog yet. You have been to one event in one venue. Take up some of those offers and go hunting and take the time to learn as much as you can. Go check out a horseback or walking trial even if your not sure that's the route you want to go. The more time you can spend in the field learning about bird hunting, trialing, and training the better. First timers always want a close working dog, they can't imagine them being out of sight for 10-15 minutes, or that a dog that is 3-400yds is going to handle and still hunting for them. Go hunt with a big running dog, and see what its like. Just don't limit yourself after 1 day.