bad timing...

[proudag08]

So as all of you know I am looking to get my first dog/ first gun dog this summer. Well I have been in contact with one breeder in particular and was begining to think that this one might be the one. He will be close to where I am living, he had offered to help me train my dog at a piece of property (johnny house and all)in a town that will be AT MOST a 25-30 min drive from the area I'll be living in. He has a great reputation, great dogs, great bloodlines, great personality... BUT he told me that the breeding is taking place this weekend putting the whelping date in the beggining of February, which puts the pups ready for a home in the beggining of April or late March. This may not seem like a big issue but for my situation it is.

This summer (June or July) I will be moving. The deal with my wife was that I would get a dog after our first year of marriage(June 26th 2011). The house I am renting right now requires a huge pet deposit. Living in the city, it will be hard to give the pup adequate activity (thats even if I can bring it home).

What should I do? Pass on the pup? Try to convince my wife to get one early (highly unlikely, especially in the house we are in now)? This really stinks... I thought the pups would be coming in the summer. Plus, I was really excited to get the opportunity to train with the breeder!!! I need some advice! :roll:

[kninebirddog]

Forgiveness is easier to ask for then permission.

[topher40]

There are plenty of well bred pups that have been whelped and to be whelped. Dont get in a hurry and you wont be sorry.

[ezzy333]

You are so lucky. You will have all summer to work with the breeder before getting a pup from his next litter. Plus you will have had time to get into your new home and get everything ready for the pup. And all of this with your wife's good graces.

Just how lucky can one person be and all because you started your search early. You did it right. Don't mess it up now.

Ezzy

[ArcticRetrievers]

The way I see it, you have 3 options.

Talk to your wife, and explain whats going on. If you can have a pet there, put down the deposit (is it refundable?) and have him/her there.

Talk to the breeder, work something out with them, arrange for boarding until you can move into a more suitable place.(not every breeder is open to something like this, but in the past I have exchanged basic board for Gunner/Bird Boy Duties, as well as assisting the new Owner with training their pup.)

Pass on this litter, keep in contact with the breeder, he may have an old client that will be having a litter with similar lines later on, and he may be willing to give you advice, and steer you in the right direction.

If it was me, I would wait. But depending on the deposit, and/or the cost of boarding, I would weigh those options, if you dont have or dont want to spend the extra money, and it's just not possible to work something out with your wife, or potential Breeder. Wait it out, as much as it seems like it will, it wont kill you to wait for another litter, and in my experience, when something like this happens it is usually to make room for something better.

Good luck with your decision.

[bowhunter1221975]

Two years ago i was in the same place you are 3 years ago i was interduced to the wonderful sport of upland hunting by a guy my wife worked with LOL it just took me going one time and i was hooked that next spring i started looking for a pup knowing vary little about bird dogs i started searching the web found this web cite
started talking to folks on here and talked to my wife she said noooooooooo way was i geting a pup right then we were liveing in the city in a small house with our kids she said if we move out to country i could have one pup well i keeped lookin and one day i found a guy that had a 7 month old litter selling them cheap i ask my wife if we could go look at them she first said no way after talking she said ok well we went and looked and we bought two lol with no were to put them so i found a guy to help aka the neighber and i worked with them pups both males as much as posable and luckly with the help from all the wonderful people on this cite and a ton of posts i watched both of them turn into good hunting dogs we moved to country and now i just bought my 4th pup from one of the mods on this cite Thanks chris MY pup is doing well
so keep your head up keep looking and talking it will work out for you
good luck

[Redfishkilla]

Go buy a house, rates are going up. Wait for the next litter if you can't get in your house early.

Or, since you graduated from such a prestigious university, fork over the deposit. If you take this route (paying to keep him at the rent house) don't even ask your wife (I assume no liability for anything you do) just bring her home a new puppy and she'll fall in love within the hour and forget all about your 1 year rule. Good luck.

Having a trainer close that will work with you is a huge asset. I’d try and buy a dog from him, but go spend some time with his dogs first especially if he’s only a short drive away.

[proudag08]

You are so lucky. You will have all summer to work with the breeder before getting a pup from his next litter. Plus you will have had time to get into your new home and get everything ready for the pup. And all of this with your wife's good graces.

Just how lucky can one person be and all because you started your search early. You did it right. Don't mess it up now.

Ezzy

I was afraid you guys would say something like this! Ok so if I were to wait, when do you guys suppose the next litter will be? Do breeders have seasons? I dont want to wait another year!

[ezzy333]

You are so lucky. You will have all summer to work with the breeder before getting a pup from his next litter. Plus you will have had time to get into your new home and get everything ready for the pup. And all of this with your wife's good graces.

Just how lucky can one person be and all because you started your search early. You did it right. Don't mess it up now.

Ezzy

I was afraid you guys would say something like this! Ok so if I were to wait, when do you guys suppose the next litter will be? Do breeders have seasons? I dont want to wait another year!

Ask. Dog breeders seldom bite and a few are even nice to talk to and they will give you advice on what and when.

Ezzy

[proudag08]

... Or, since you graduated from such a prestigious university...

Gig 'em

[BrassVols]

Forgiveness is easier to ask for then permission.

Nice!

[ArcticRetrievers]

Some breeders wait 6 months (maybe they have a different Female to breed, and dont want two litters on the ground at once). If you want the same Sire and Dam you'll have to wait at least a year, and even then they may not do a rebreeding. The breeder may only breed very occasionally, and may not have a litter for years to come. There are many variables. Your best bet is to talk to the breeder, tell him/her what your looking for and ask him/her when the next litter will be there.

Please keep in mind, That while it's not as big of a deal as it is in Alaska it IMO is best to get a spring puppy with plenty of time to train. So if you pass up this litter you may want to wait for another year, That way you can train for the summer and hunt that first Fall.

[Redfishkilla]

With all this talk about wives, I have more to add. I'd like to brag about mine. I didn't do all the lookin' for a breeder like I should have when I first wanted a bird dog. Shortly after I moved to bird hunting country, I'd been hunting pheasant with my border collie and decided I wanted a “real” bird dog. The collie is great, she retrieves doves and pheasants, actually hunts and I trained her to bite my hand when I do the “hook em” t.u. hand sign, which aggies tend to like. So I came home from hunting and told her all this. We lived in a crappy apartment type place at the time. She got on the phone and found a litter that night. I really lucked out in that the dog is a good dog but I will never buy a dog like that again, kidda on a whim. Nevertheless I think that is really cool. She grew up a city girl in Dallas, keep in mind. I have a picture of us training this dog at the Amarillo Bird Dog Club with her wearing every piece of clothing she owns in 40+ mph wind and about 35 degrees holding the bird launcher string. Now that is a wife!! After I got more into hunting she would come and walk behind us taking pictures of the dogs!!! It was as much fun to come home and look at our dog pointing wild quail in the pictures as it was to shoot birds. Since then she has come to about 10 field trials and taken pictures for me and others. You should see the people’s faces light up when she shows them pictures she took of their dogs, cool. She was “on board” when I bought the next dog too, but she has spoiled it already.

The only constant is change. She’s now prego due in the middle of January, but guess what? She’s let me hunt every day off from opening of quail season. And there’s a difference in “letting” someone go hunting. I’ve got friends whose wives keep score way too much. If they go hunting their wife makes them feel guilty and try to “get” concessions in return. When I go hunting I don’t want to feel guilty or bad for doing what I was born to do, no man should have to spend his leisure time thinking about what his wife is doing to “get even” or feeling guilty for trying to enjoy himself. I thank God for the wife He gave me, but I bet the picture taking is over for the time being. Thanks for your time, I feel better now.

[proudag08]

Mine is coming around. Every now and then I'll be telling her about something cool I learned or a chat I had with a breeder and she will listen so intently and be excited with me. But (as I tend to do) I keep talking and talking intil she kindly says, "Ok, Ryan, I get it, you're excited." So then I shut my trap. Little doses...

[mcbosco]

I didn't even tell mine. I just came home with an 18lb pound pup one day. I put my name in 6 months before very quietly. She said OMG how cute. She asked how big do they get? I said about 75lbs. He is 90lbs plus, oh well. She asked does that beard get much longer? I said probably not, LOL. She asked do they shed? I said well they are single coated, Oh brother.

:roll:

It has been Tiffany for Christmas ever since.

[proudag08]

Not to take away from your wives but are you all saying I should wait on the next litter? Just bringing one home is not an option...

[kninebirddog]

You know your wife and what you can get away with...How comfortable is your couch?

If it is something you really want and you feel completely comfortable that the pup will work its magic with that cute little face and melt the wife...then you can get a way on the asking for forgiveness..


if you think it will cause to much trouble..then better wait

[birddogger]

You are so lucky. You will have all summer to work with the breeder before getting a pup from his next litter. Plus you will have had time to get into your new home and get everything ready for the pup. And all of this with your wife's good graces.

Just how lucky can one person be and all because you started your search early. You did it right. Don't mess it up now.

Ezzy

I was about to say the same thing [except for the lucky part], especially the last sentence. I know how hard it is to wait, but since you asked, this is what I think.

Charlie

[RayGubernat]

I thnk ArcticRetrievers gave you some very sound advice and options.

I would encourage you to TALK TO THE BREEDER!!!

If they are THAT close to you and THAT willing to help you out and they have the kind of dogs you want...I'd not be surprised if they would be willing to work something out. I certainly would want to stay on the very best of terms with them. In this case, I recommend total candor when dealing with the breeder.

If they are willing to help you work with the dog, that can be absolutely invaluable in terms of your not taking backward steps in training.

Hands on training on your own dog with an experienced trainer guiding you is what most new bird dog owners could only dream of.

Talk to the breeder. Tell them exactly where you are, what your concerns are, and what your options are, as you see them. They may provide you with some new options that you might not have considered.

RayG

[Cajun Casey]

15,000 + GSP pups a year are registered. I don't think waiting will hurt. You'll have a few to choose from whenever you are really ready to get a pup.

[tommyboy72]

Redfish your post about your wife made me have to post on my own wife. She allows me to get whatever dog I want whenever I want as long as money allows. I have bought and sold and traded several dogs in the past 3 years since I have been married and my wife is always good about it. She also lets me hunt every day that I want during bird season and rarely complains. She even tries to get out with me when she can. Some wives can be really understanding and tolerant like ours. I also have friends whose wives do nothing but complain and try to keep score everytime my buddies try and do something on their own without their wives and children. I thank the lord for my wife everytime I take the dogs out and go hunting. Also I wanted to say it is good to see another Panhandle person on here Redfish. I live about 100 miles north of you in Texhoma. I have some friends down in Amarillo that I don't get to visit as much as I'd like but talk to on a regular basis. My female Pointer even came from Poker Straight Kennel at Boys Ranch right outside of Amarillo. Not sure if you know him but Adrian Jackson is a topnotch dog trainer, handler, and trialer. He's good people.

[proudag08]

Well I sent the breeder an email telling him the situation and asking him when his next breeding would be. All in all I'd say the email was 7 lines long. This is his response "Don't know at this time." if it's July or August I think I could wait... But I just can't wait another 12 months. I just dont think I could do it...

On a side note, how much communication is too much with a breeder? By the shotness of his email it almost seems as though he is getting annoyed with me. Like y'all said, I want to stay in his good graces...

Thanks for the replies so far...

[kninebirddog]

I would say he answered your email....So he gave contact...if you were annoying him I would say he probably wouldn't be timely in reply

also is he replying from computer or from a phone from a phone 7 lines is a good reply LOL

[Cajun Casey]

If selling pups is part of this guy's business, then he will probably not spend a lot more time on you if he thinks you are a tire kicker. Once you put down a deposit, then you are a customer.

[Redfishkilla]

Tommy,
I don't know Adrian but I know who he is. I've seen him in person just once and a snake clinic, he was very soft spoken and generally nice guy. I've had a few buddies have dogs trained by him. I need to attent one of his training sessions.

Ag,
It's hard to gauge people's thoughts by e-mail. Some folks are short but don't mean anything buy it. Not to tell you how to conduct your business but call him in the evening and ask him if this is a good time. If he says he's busy then ask him when he might have a few minutes to talk. The guy's rep is all he has so I don't think he wants to come off as disagreeable. Good luck.

[ezzy333]

I'll bet if you called and offered to help with some of the kennel chores and would love to help with the training he would become a great resource and friend that probably would do everything he could to get you a nice pup whenever you decide you are ready. Once you are helping you can ask all of the questions you want and will also begetting some great experience.

Ezzy

[kbshorthairs]

One little side note. It sounds like proximity and willingness to help are great with this trainer. Most trainers do not restrict their services to dogs that come from their kennel. If this litter isn't an option, perhaps you could get a pup from another litter that met your requirements and still use this individual as a trainer.
I agree with Ezzy (this time) about putting in all the research and no need to rush it now. Everyone talks a big game about their just taking the pup home and the wife will get over it, but that would be trouble. Today you believe that you want to be with this person for the next sixty years as well as be a bird dog guy.

You have an agreement. If you break it......that could potentially be a burr under the saddle for a long time.

Negative feelings can accumulate and make it more difficult down the line.......
when you want to buy a four wheeler
when you need to build a kennel cuz four dogs in the house is just too much
when you need a new truck because your old one won't pull the three horse slant gooseneck trailer for your tennessee walking horses....
jus a lil friendly advice from the fatman!

ps.....I will be glad when you get a pup so that you can put its picture up as your avatar!

[fourtrax]

If this trainer is as good as he is reputed (not doubting that), he should be willing to work with you
& figure something out.

[proudag08]

Thanks kb. I have thought about approaching him with all honesty and sincerety and seeing what he thought about that. I just dont want him to think that I am coming across as trying to take advantage of him.

Ezzy, I like your option as well. I wonder if I could use half of your and half of kb's.

Offer some kennel duties for the ability to train my dog I bought from another kennel at his place with him. What do yall think about that plan? I will try to call him later today. Feel him out and see what he thinks.

Like I said, If his next litter was going to be ready in August or early September thats one thing. If he isnt having one again until next April... I think I will choose another one. Its not like the other breeders around me have bad dogs! And the other breeders are still close, (1 -2 hrs) just not as close. Plus, if he is ok with helping me train even if the dog is from a different kennel, it will be all good!

[ArcticRetrievers]

Proudag, Usually in that Circumstance You can Offer to help with the Kennel, but additionally help with any training he does that may require 2 people. Go to this breeder, and tell him that your an open Book when it comes to training, but that you would like to learn how. If anything this will give you a little experience to train your own pup. Or you may Get a Good Mentor/Friend/Hunting Buddy/ETC. out of the deal who is more than willing to assist in helping you train.

KB is right Dont tick off your wife by going behind her back.

I think a Big thing is once you establish your commitment to the breeder, fleshing out with him what your looking for in a dog, he may be able to point you in the right direction as breeders go.

Also have you thought about going outside of your immediate area for a pup, a state or two away? Theres still good dogs over there used on similar terrain, so it may be something to think about.

Arctic

[proudag08]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, it would be different if there werent 4 or 5 other breeders that have good dogs and will have good litters to choose from. Also, its not like I am not willing to wait but I dont think I could wait another 12 months. 3 more months, maybe 5, sure, but not another 12.

Something else I thought about through answering a good friend's PM. This breeder would have not have a leg up on any of them without the training ground he has offered. Now I understand that this is a pretty significant leg up but if he is willing to help me train without insisting I buy from him, then everything is back on a level playing field, right?

I am going to try to call this guy today sometime and just sit and talk with him, tell him my thoughts and be an open book. What he has to say will push my descion one way or the other.

[ACooper]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, it would be different if there werent 4 or 5 other breeders that have good dogs and will have good litters to choose from. Also, its not like I am not willing to wait but I dont think I could wait another 12 months. 3 more months, maybe 5, sure, but not another 12.

Something else I thought about through answering a good friend's PM. This breeder would have not have a leg up on any of them without the training ground he has offered. Now I understand that this is a pretty significant leg up but if he is willing to help me train without insisting I buy from him, then everything is back on a level playing field, right?

I am going to try to call this guy today sometime and just sit and talk with him, tell him my thoughts and be an open book. What he has to say will push my descion one way or the other.

Just curious how many times total have you emailed/called this breeder?

[proudag08]

Emailed 3 called once. Too much?

[ACooper]

I wouldnt consider that too much. Buying a dog is a big! Just wanted to make sure you werent going to wear out your welcome.

[MillerClemsonHD]

What about spending time on the weekends and other free time helping train etc. It will give you time to spend with the dogs and soak up everything you can. This might enable you to feel like you can wait a little longer if it meant you didn't get a pup until the spring. It will also give you a chance to see how you want to do things with your pup and how they will help your training down the road. Something little like watching the training work with a dog that was trained to sit will completely open your eyes to why it gets posted on here over and over not to train your dog to sit if you plan to break them. Sure there are those that it doesn't affect, but all you have to do is see all of the extra work that goes into the ones who is does affect and you will understand. This is just one example and I can name many many more. I spend a good bit of time with a local trainer here that is very well known and have also spent time with 3 or 4 others and soak up all of the info I can when I am with them. I can go watch 15 dogs worked at all different levels on a Saturday and I learn something on each and every one of them that could help me with my dogs. Spending that time will also give you a much better appreciation for the work a trainer does, and the patience and effort it takes to get a dog from puppy to a broke dog.

[proudag08]

What about spending time on the weekends and other free time helping train etc. It will give you time to spend with the dogs and soak up everything you can. This might enable you to feel like you can wait a little longer if it meant you didn't get a pup until the spring. It will also give you a chance to see how you want to do things with your pup and how they will help your training down the road. Something little like watching the training work with a dog that was trained to sit will completely open your eyes to why it gets posted on here over and over not to train your dog to sit if you plan to break them. Sure there are those that it doesn't affect, but all you have to do is see all of the extra work that goes into the ones who is does affect and you will understand. This is just one example and I can name many many more. I spend a good bit of time with a local trainer here that is very well known and have also spent time with 3 or 4 others and soak up all of the info I can when I am with them. I can go watch 15 dogs worked at all different levels on a Saturday and I learn something on each and every one of them that could help me with my dogs. Spending that time will also give you a much better appreciation for the work a trainer does, and the patience and effort it takes to get a dog from puppy to a broke dog.

Thats a good word. Thanks for that sound sdvice...

[Cajun Casey]

Just curious, but is all this help the trainer is offering free?

[proudag08]

The way he made it sound it was going to be free... I am seeing it as a "I'll do my thing with the dog I am training and you can bring tour dog along and watch..." but even if it wasn't free, there is the potential to get the cost down if I do some kennel cleaning and such... Just having him close make me (as I first timer) feel way better about it...

On a different note, my wife and I talked and decided to stick it out and wait for a pup from this guy. Waiting isn't always easy but we think it will be best!

[Cajun Casey]

The way he made it sound it was going to be free... I am seeing it as a "I'll do my thing with the dog I am training and you can bring tour dog along and watch..." but even if it wasn't free, there is the potential to get the cost down if I do some kennel cleaning and such... Just having him close make me (as I first timer) feel way better about it...

On a different note, my wife and I talked and decided to stick it out and wait for a pup from this guy. Waiting isn't always easy but we think it will be best!

Don't ever underestimate the started dog, either. Sometimes a trainer or their clients will have older pups available. Little pups are cute, but they are a stinkin' pain. I think you made the right decision not to jump ahead on the acquisition.

[proudag08]

UPDATE:

As I was on the phone with the breeder telling him that I wanted to wait it out and go with a pup from his next litter, he told me that he had actually heard that the bitch he was going to breed had a blood test and was not yet in season. He didnt mention whether she had already been in season or if she has yet to come into season. He is supposed to give me an update as soon as he knows which one of those it was. Just trying to keep you guys up to date...