Pause before the Pounce.

[ROTTnBRITT]

Wanted to throw this out there. Its something that i have wondered about a couple of time.

This is basically what the point is all about. This is what the pointing breeds have been built on. But I have noticed it is an instict that most other breeds show as well. I was watching my rottweiler the other day out at the bird feeder. When he would find the bird (sight pointing of course), he would stop for a second and them take off after it. Also my parents lab.(bench bred) he will go out mousing in the fields. He will start sniffing around then stop for a few seconds, then pounce on the ground infront of him, and then start poking his nose into the grass looking for it. Much like a fox.

Would you think you could take any lab pup with good prey drive and reinforce the point all the way through training, that you would end up with a pointing lab?

Let me know what you think.

[kensfishing]

Any dog can be taught to point. Any dog. But is it right.

[mcbosco]

Terriers if they are controllable are very effective at pointing. I don't see anything wrong with it. Aren't Airedales used for upland?

[ezzy333]

Terriers if they are controllable are very effective at pointing. I don't see anything wrong with it. Aren't Airedales used for upland?

Airdales are used for hunting anything but are not pointers. The position of the OP is right. All predators gather themselves before they pounce. This has been the main objective for hundreds of years that have developed our pointing dogs. Some dog point or stop before the pounce longer than others and these we call pointers but it has developed over those many years into something that is natural to them. All dogs can be taught to point just like they all can be taught to retrieve but it seldom if ever quite the same as the natural reaction of the true pointing dogs.

In he past couple of decades I think you can see the difference in the pointing Labs strictly because breeders are starting to breed for it. But there still are many that do tend to stop for a little longer time than most and if you tend to develop this through training you can end up with a dog that stops before flushing and it resembles a point without the intensity that makes our pointing dogs so rigid which many call style. Nothing wrong with trying to teach and train a Lab to point as long as you are aware of what you will probably get. Go for it and see how your pup does. Most make great hunting dogs whether they have a stylish point or not.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1oyuGWu1Ik

If you have the patience for this video, the JR does eventually point.

[ezzy333]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1oyuGWu1Ik

If you have the patience for this video, the JR does eventually point.

I didn't mean to say they couldn't be taught to point but with their extremely short attention span they would be about the last type of dog I would try to teach. Great dogs, grew up with terriers on the farm and the Airdales did hunt with you but they were strictly hunting bunnies and would flush birds when they run across them.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Yeah you are right but how much fun would it be to take the modern JRT and give the training a whirl. They are much more trainable now and much more capable athletically then they were 20 years ago.

[Crashola]

I always loved it when my Golden would do the pause thing on pheasants. She'd get low sniffing around, all birdy with her tail wagging, and then suddenly freeze (with the exception of the wagging tail). I'd warn my friends to get ready, she'd pounce, and the pheasant(s) would explode out of the cover. I love my pointing dog now, but that was a lot of fun.

[birddog1968]

you would end up with a dog that points mechanically, alot of dogs show a sticky flush but what we call point is something beyond a sticky flush, some labs have honest point, it may not be as deeply set as some pointing breeds but From my own experience my labs point (at 10 wks) was as natural and deeply rooted as the young pointers I have had.

Mechanical point isn't really the same as natural ingrained point.......

[A/C Guy]

Would you think you could take any lab pup with good prey drive and reinforce the point all the way through training, that you would end up with a pointing lab?

There are several breeders that are selling pointing labs. It is a recessive gene, but they are having success at breeding some solid pointers.

[Cajun Casey]

What you see when a dog holds point is the truncation of the natural prey drive. The dog does not go forward with seizing the prey. Like a Border collie herding, there is a genetic switch that says, "That'll do," and keeps the dog in position. Reinforcement does the rest.

About ten or so years ago, there was an article in one of the upland oriented mags about a JRT named Doodlebug that worked on the string of a big southern quail outfit. Cool story.

[mcbosco]

What you see when a dog holds point is the truncation of the natural prey drive. The dog does not go forward with seizing the prey. Like a Border collie herding, there is a genetic switch that says, "That'll do," and keeps the dog in position. Reinforcement does the rest.

About ten or so years ago, there was an article in one of the upland oriented mags about a JRT named Doodlebug that worked on the string of a big southern quail outfit. Cool story.

There is a JRT at a hunting lodge in Texas that works upland with the guides and also water retrieves.