Man do they grow up fast!!!!

[Brittlver]

Molly is now almost 4 months old, She's a little gremlin ha ha. Even though I know she knows the commands she seems to ignore everyone and does what she wants. Hope this passes soon so we can continue on with training. Otherwise when she is calm she is a sweetheart but aren't they all. Seeing a trainer next week to see where she is at and what he can do. Any one know Craig Steinbach, is he a good trainer? Talked to him a couple times and he seems like he will be a great guy to work with. Anyways on with the pictures:

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

What possible training are you looking at for a 4 month old puppy???

[Brittlver]

All we are working on now is general obedience training like Off, Biting, Heeling stuff like that, NO hunting training until this summer. By then she will be around 9 months and can start working on other things. I was just stating that sometimes it seems like she blanks out even though I know she remembers. Its been a while since I had a puppy so I kinda forgot some things. I don't blame her she is only 4 months. She could get away with murder if she wanted to. Figuratively speaking of course.

[ezzy333]

All we are working on now is general obedience training like Off, Biting, Heeling stuff like that, NO hunting training until this summer. By then she will be around 9 months and can start working on other things. I was just stating that sometimes it seems like she blanks out even though I know she remembers. Its been a while since I had a puppy so I kinda forgot some things. I don't blame her she is only 4 months. She could get away with murder if she wanted to. Figuratively speaking of course.

You are doing OK it sounds like but what Rob was getting at is what would you have a trainer do at that age. Just keep working on the manners and take her for a walk out in a field and let her explore while you walk slowly and watch with your mouth shut. You can take her to a trainer next summer late or even the next spring if she is doing OK.

Ezzy

[Brittlver]

Oh ok I see what he is getting at. The trainer won't be doing anything until this summer. just going up to get introduced to birds and the gun, pretty much just a introduction kind of thing no actual training is being done. He said he wouldn't do any actual training and even then its just to continue on with the intro part this summer. He then requests that you run the dog for an entire season before you start the hard training. Here's his website check it out and let me know what you guys think. This is my first Bird dog and want to do it right because I think she has what it takes to be a champion.

http://www.fly-n-gunkennels.com/service ... tions.html

[ultracarry]

Why would you now want to intro your dogs to birds at 4 months? They should have some prey drive and know some commands. Put em on a long check cord and see what she does. If you like what you see and want to intro her to the gun then its all up to you

All this stuff about a dog being too young or feed being too "hot" is just peoples opinion. If you think your dog is ready for something and you are sure of it then just do it. None knows better then the person living and working with the dog on a daily basis.

[ezzy333]

Why would you now want to intro your dogs to birds at 4 months? They should have some prey drive and know some commands. Put em on a long check cord and see what she does. If you like what you see and want to intro her to the gun then its all up to you

All this stuff about a dog being too young or feed being too "hot" is just peoples opinion. If you think your dog is ready for something and you are sure of it then just do it. None knows better then the person living and working with the dog on a daily basis.

Oh if this was only true. These "rules of the road" so to speak are much more than personal opinion. They are the findings of many many people who have worked with and trained thousands upon thousands of dogs. Your theory is that kids should start to school when ever the parents think they are ready. Can you just imagine the chaos this would cause in our schools and whole educational system. I'm sending my 6 yr old to college since I am sure he is ready. Just don't think that would work.

Though much of what you read on boards such as this one is nothing more than personal opinion there still are well known facts divulged also and are normally fairly easy to identify as they will coincide with many other personal opinions as well as the training methods recommended in many books. Fact is there is a difference in dogs but they still are close enough that a tried and true method of training or feeding will provide a good path for anyone to follow if they are wanting to produce a well trained happy healthy bird dog.

Not just my personal opinion but well known facts,

Ezzy

[Chukar12]

You are seeing the trainer next week I would follow his advice. I am sure that he will give you a number of things you can do that will help you prepare for his program. Take a note book for copious notes and ask if you might call for advice along the way.

Ezzy is spot on about about the rules of the road. I have found people to be at least as myopic about their dogs as their children, myself included. Dogs are a living being with a maturation rate that you cannot accelerate in a hurried manner. Think of the training as a building process that your trainer explains to you in his or her methods; and do not get ahead of yourself to the "fun" stuff. Big mistakes are pressure for commands not yet learned, especially on birds, inconsistency in commands, poor introduction to the gun, sight pointing, and a littany of others.

This is my opinion, but there are two schools of thought and roads to take. Those trainers that advocate let a pup be a pup. Learn to love birds chase and roam. Others will argue that bird intro is ok, get a point established and stop all chasing. Understand that this is a generalization, but method A in my opinion is easiest for the hunter or new trainer, it is less restrictive. Method B is more akin to what I have seen in hardcore field trial trainers who do things for a living.

I any event, once you have properly chosen a trainer listen to them...that is where your money is going and the three of you need to be a team.

[ultracarry]

Sorry I'm on a phone......typing and spelling might be off a little.

Ok so what you are saying is what is good for one is good for all... I believe you must be a democrat. If I have a kid who is smart enough to go to college at 6 then that's where he is going. He would not go to a "public school"... instead I would send him to a private school and invest in having his own personal teachers because in being generalized as just a 6 year old you cant distinguish how special this kid really is.

Now weather your dog is ready for a step in training needs to be looked at based upon how mature he is and the advancements might go slower but you can still progress at a pace dictated by the dog.... a lot of people can't handle that all dogs are different and progress different and have different body language. They can also not accept that you should have a program that works for you even if you take a specific method twist it and make it work for your dog. I say let a six year old go to college if they can and let them progress when they are ready. Not when every dog is the same age.

The reason this country is in trouble is because people want everything to be fair. People should he treated the same because we all think and progress the same. Well lifes not fair and everything is different. That's a fact. And you sir can KEEP THE CHANGE.

[Chukar12]

My, what an interesting rant. Clearly an enlightened individual who can cover education, politics and generalize sociology in a post about gun dogs. When people ask for help on an internet forum they are best served with information that is widely accepted and practiced in the learned field of their inquiry. Unfortunately, they will too often get the weekend warrior answer from someone who has rubbed elbows with this guy or that guy, and picked up enough information to fit their agenda. Then they espouse it laced with personal name calling, summaries of comments that were not actually made and supposition about the knowledge and intent of others.

A four month old is a baby. All pros and most folks on here will tell you to move slowly and with caution, just as Ezzy has. You are on the right track, consult with your pro and you will head in the right direction.

[ezzy333]

Sorry I'm on a phone......typing and spelling might be off a little.

Ok so what you are saying is what is good for one is good for all... I believe you must be a democrat. If I have a kid who is smart enough to go to college at 6 then that's where he is going. He would not go to a "public school"... instead I would send him to a private school and invest in having his own personal teachers because in being generalized as just a 6 year old you cant distinguish how special this kid really is.

Now weather your dog is ready for a step in training needs to be looked at based upon how mature he is and the advancements might go slower but you can still progress at a pace dictated by the dog.... a lot of people can't handle that all dogs are different and progress different and have different body language. They can also not accept that you should have a program that works for you even if you take a specific method twist it and make it work for your dog. I say let a six year old go to college if they can and let them progress when they are ready. Not when every dog is the same age.

The reason this country is in trouble is because people want everything to be fair. People should he treated the same because we all think and progress the same. Well lifes not fair and everything is different. That's a fact. And you sir can KEEP THE CHANGE.

You may find someday that with a dog or a kid there is so much more than just smarts that need to be taken into consideration. Kids or pups that do not have the chance to learn all that different stages of life have to offer will suffer for the rest of their lives. That's why there is a difference between growing up as an only child or as one of several! Why there is a difference in growing up with two parents instead of just one. Why there is a difference in being one of a litter or a single pup. And why there is such a thing as being mature enough to handle what knowledge you have or are exposed too. And this all happens on a time line that you and I have little to do with. But as parents as well as owners of a dog should make decisions based on what is quite often referred to as just common sense. But I will make you a bet that the child that enters college at 6 yrs will never graduate and offer anything that would be positive to society just as the pup that is trained at 4 or 6 months will never be a hunting dog. And I don't care how smart they are.

Ezzy

[Brittlver]

Thanks for all the imput. I should let all you know that she is not actually going in for training per say, but to go in just to get an introduction to birds (Stuff I can't do here) and to work with her about the sound of a gun. There will be no actual training involved. She will be 5 months when she goes up. I will let you all know how the meeting goes. Any questions I should ask him or things I should look for. This year will be time for her to have fun before I start making her learn anything.

[Onk]

WOW Ezzy you are a Democrat? See I was thinking you were only a Democrat if you hunted with a weiner dog! Boy was I wrong!

[birddogger]

Every dog is different and some can handle serious training with pressure at an earlier age than some others can, but no dog is ready at 4 months for anything but fun, bonding and socializing. They are all babies at this age, as Chukar and Ezzy have eluded to. As far as birds, I don't believe they are ever to young to be introduced to birds, not training with them, but just getting them excited and bringing out their prey drive.

Charlie

[Redfishkilla]

This is a great thread. I believe the pressure element of training can be distinguished from other types of training. Is a 4 month old ready for pressure? I don’t think so. But is a 4 month old ready to find and get excited about birds? You betcha. I think there’s always, from day one, fun games you can play with pup without putting pressure on them to act the way you want. For example, retrieving can/should be started the day pup is brought home. But again, no pressure should be involved. The here command can be taught with treats at first, even younger than 4 months, but not “tightened up”, for lack of a better term, until they’re older and ready. Sound conditioning can be done early if you’re careful and have birds. Formal yard work shouldn’t be done until the dog is ready, from my limited experience I believe this to be well past 4 months, more like 8 or 10 months, even later sometimes. I certainly wouldn’t leave them in the kennel until you thought it was the right time to train. Another overlooked tool is walks. Quiet walks in hunting type areas are essential for a pup’s development. All the BS above is my lowly opinion, so take it for what it’s worth.

[Brittlver]

Thank you Redfish, You got what i am doing. I was only trying to get across that when she does go up for training it is only going to be for the most part fun and games to her but for us it is a different train of thought. I agree with all of you that Real training shouldn't be done early and only when the dog is ready. My trainer is mainly a Field Trial-er so I know down the road it will go in that direction. But for now he is going to help me get Molly interested in birds and sound condition her for me. Some of the other things he will incorporate is Crate Training (Which she already is), Socializing her with other dogs and check cord training ( She doesn't care about that either). But nothing will be done until I speak with him on Monday even then it wouldn't start until sometime in Feb. as he has a big Trial at the end of Jan.