Bird Dog/ Outdoor shows?

mlittle · Post by **mlittle** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:38 am

It seems to me that the Outdoor Channels (Outdoor Channel, Vs, Sportsmans Channel etc) has a hard time keeping bird dog shows on the air. I think they sell the time to the show and the shows sell sponsorships to make budget (I am pretty sure that is how it generally works).
It seems as an outsider to this, that shows switch from channel to channel, and they are on 1 quarter and off the next. I don't know how they expect to have a consistent viewership to build their ratings. Or, How would this methid be draw to corporate sponsors that can afford to pay for the airing?

Does jumping from channel to channel hurt them? Does taking quarters off and not filming more show hurt them? Is it because there are too many outdoor show that dont have any substance at all? Why is it that you can watch a show one week on these channels and the next week it is gone?

What would you guys want to see in a bird dog show? What would make you watch it? What turns you off of a show? Should more trials be featured? More training tips?

I am not impressed by what the general quality is on a lot of hunting shows. What would help make them more viewer frindly and appeal more to you. In particular, what would you want to see on an upland show.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:52 am

More shows like Hunting with Hank or Scott Linden's show that features the dogs and the hunt instead of the people and the shooting.

Ezzy

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:03 pm

Wild birds only. If I watch anymore liberated quail in the south or planted phez in the north, I will throw up.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:16 pm

No Preserves.
No Preserve or product pimping(as little as possible, anyway).
Limit celebrities to those with weed chaff/feathers in their back vest pocket.
Hosts that don't wear sunglasses, if obviously facing away from the sun :roll: , when talking to the camera.
Hosts that are quiet while hunting rather than trying to be entertaining with a running commentary...course, it is hard to spook a planted bird.
Be nice if the host shot a scattergun with worn bluing and a scratched stock.
A good example of a show, with general appeal, would be the old Flip Pallot show...the poorest examples would be Buck, "good shot" McNeely or Ted "bait em'" Nugent.

I'd like to hear more talk of the loss and value of early successional habitat; more on loss of hunter access and how leasing hurts hunter recruitment; the poor management decisions happening on the national forests, and how deer feeding also feeds nest predators.

nightmaregundog · Post by **nightmaregundog** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:26 pm

is hunting with hank on any more even reruns. I cant find any upland shows beside phesants forever, that ron guys voice drives me bonkers. what other shows are on tv?

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:31 pm

"What would you guys want to see in a bird dog show? What would make you watch it?"

Well Trained Dogs and Good dog work instead of Renegade meat dogs,busting birds and stealing points.Most of the shows are more like a bird slaughter convention,focused on shooting as many birds as possible no matter how they get them in the air.And some of those people I wouldn't even think of hunting with.Usually when they come on I change to channel.Sure takes away from someone's idea of well trained dogs.Makes my skin cringe to watch them.Okay for meat hunters I guess

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:50 pm

I used to watch Benellis American Bird Hunter and American Gundog (I think both of them have been canceled, just reruns). I liked the BDC Tournement hunter, but havnt seen it for a while.

smokinsam · Post by **smokinsam** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:57 pm

I would love to see the BDC come back on.I loved watchin that.
It would be nice to be able to watch trials on one of these channels.

Firemedic · Post by **Firemedic** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:59 pm

BoJack wrote:"What would you guys want to see in a bird dog show? What would make you watch it?"

Well Trained Dogs and Good dog work instead of Renegade meat dogs,busting birds and stealing points.Most of the shows are more like a bird slaughter convention,focused on shooting as many birds as possible no matter how they get them in the air.And some of those people I wouldn't even think of hunting with.Usually when they come on I change to channel.Sure takes away from someone's idea of well trained dogs.Makes my skin cringe to watch them.Okay for meat hunters I guess

Couldn't have said it better myself. More times than not it's the dogs doing the flushing, not the handler. Everytime I see a dog creep on birds, just makes me wanna yell whoa, or drag em back to where they started... Hardly ever do they show a COMPLETE retrieve, I could go on.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:39 pm

Birddog3412 wrote:I used to watch Benellis American Bird Hunter and American Gundog (I think both of them have been canceled, just reruns). I liked the BDC Tournement hunter, but havnt seen it for a while.

I will agree on the Benellis American Bird Hunter and of course American Gundog was IMO by far the best that has been done to date and I am really dissapointed that they are no longer making new episodes.

I have to disagre on the BDC tournament hunter.

Poor dog work, poor bird flight, I dont need to see every bird after the shot, it looks just like the last 20 they shot. We know they are beautiful blah blah blah. Way to much focus on the host trying to entertain rather than the letting the stars (dogs) entertain us, thats what I would guess the people watching the show want to see. I cant imagine many non bird doggers watching bird hunting... the shows need to be focused on the hunting.

Unfortunately the pimping of products isnt going any where that is the only way the shows stay on the air. But I do get tired of hearing wow what an awesome gun (insert brand) shooting (insert shell), and this vest, and my boots etc etc. That is what commercials are for.

What show is Randy Lack on? Was he on the Benelli show? I always liked him pretty well.

Onk · Post by **Onk** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:58 pm

I know nothing about the field trial events and would like to see some of those and how the work. Also like others have already said, focus more on the dogs working and less on the hunters!

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:11 pm

Randy lack was on...I think it was called "Western Wings". Forgot about that one.

I think he may have been on one episode of either American gundog or bird hunter.

bwire · Post by **bwire** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:20 pm

I thought Randy Lack was on the Wingshooter. I'm not sure if they are still making new episodes.

Kmack · Post by **Kmack** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:55 pm

Helicopter footage of Horseback AA dogs on the big open country up north and out west.
I don't think you can film good field trial dog work from the ground.

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:12 pm

bwire wrote:I thought Randy Lack was on the Wingshooter. I'm not sure if they are still making new episodes.

Hes on that too.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:40 pm

The bird dogs and bird hunting shows I like to watch are live and in person, when I load my dogs and head down the road. No re-runs, no commercials, no self serving host, and no preserves. If I'm not hunting I'm training, if I'm watching TV I darn sure would rather see some blond babes.

Coveyrise64

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:04 pm

I always grew frustrated by the lack of manners and style the dogs exhibited on most of those shows. I found myself saying aloud, "how in the world is this
$#!+ on television?" I am sure that it takes tons of money to produce a show like that. I suppose that is the reason the have to hawk every product they can in order to generate capital.
Let's get Doc favor a good camera man and let him make a few episodes. I know he has the dogs.....and the country. His pictures are incredible, but his video work was a bit shakey.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:46 pm

Please Lord...no new shows like those that have competitors scampering and trotting after their dogs with scatterguns waving around, and tired, dizzyed, whatever birds that dogs catch on the ground.
The Run&Gun competition shows are embarrassing....by far, the worst.

BoJack · Post by **BoJack** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:02 pm

I'd say there's Plenty on here with dogs that would put on a great show.Letting people see what good dog work is, along with style and Manners.The ratings would probably go to the top from Serious bird doggers and hunters watching.

madmurph · Post by **madmurph** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:44 pm

Your question asks what we would like to see in a bird dog show. A bird dog show would be much different from a bird hunting show. In a bird hunting show, I would expect it to focus on hunting various species of birds with an occasional segment on dogs.

Now, a bird dog show should highlight all aspects of bird dogs. It should include segments on specific breeds including pointers, flushers and retrievers. It should include numerous training tips from basic obedience and yard work to advanced skills like honoring. It should include segments on the games we play such as American Field, AKC, NAVHDA, NSTRA, BDC, etc. Each episode should have a couple minutes with a veterinarian discussing health, nutrition, conditioning, etc. And of course it should include actual bird hunts; upland, waterfowl, and other birds in the north, south, east and west as well as foreign destinations.

I would love to see this. I have grown somewhat disappointed in some of the programming on the outdoor channels.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:56 pm

BoJack wrote:I'd say there's Plenty on here with dogs that would put on a great show.Letting people see what good dog work is, along with style and Manners.The ratings would probably go to the top from Serious bird doggers and hunters watching.

I have wondered if the people who participate in these shows actually believe they are showing good dog work.

Charlie

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:22 pm

What show is Randy Lack on? Was he on the Benelli show? I always liked him pretty well.

He was on a show called "The Wingshooter" as well as a semi regular on Benelli's American Bird Hunter.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:24 pm

Chaingang wrote:
What show is Randy Lack on? Was he on the Benelli show? I always liked him pretty well.

He was on a show called "The Wingshooter" as well as a semi regular on Benelli's American Bird Hunter.

Yeah The Wingshooter had some good episodes IMO.

Chaingang · Post by **Chaingang** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:28 pm

The Hunting with Hank series and later Upland days with Dez and Dash was discontinued. I always enjoyed those shows even though many were shot on preserves.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:32 pm

I like Randy Lack as well. Very entertaining and more of a hunting show than staged. Kinda hard to plant the type of birds Randy hunts. Mostly desert quail like blues, mearns, gambels, etc.

I really liked the BDC as well. No horseback gallery or dogs running 15 miles out in front. Don't get me wrong I love a big running pointer but by big running I mean 4-500 yards not miles. The dogs all hunted well and pointed birds and all retrieved at least on the pointing dog episodes that I watched. I did however watch another show that was not sponsored by the BDC, some type of pheasant hunting championship that showed dogs grabbing live birds, running with shotguns, non flying birds being thrown in the air and shot, etc. that I did not care much for.

I am sorry guys but if I read more about "well mannered dogs" and dogs that "don't creep on point" etc. I am afraid I am going to puke. I am sure most of you train on pigeons and pen raised planted birds and most of you probably hunt preserves. Your so called " well mannered" dogs may work for you in those situations. Come hunt wild pheasant and wild scaled quail or even wild bobwhites in wide open country like I live in and I will walk with you all day long while your "well mannered" dogs go on point, have the birds walk out from in front of them, you walk up and touch the dog on the head to release him, we walk some more, the same thing over and over and over again, and you never take a shot all day long. What some of you call creeping is a dog relocating on moving birds and if the dog does not relocate you absolutely will not find birds out where I live. You will see some nice points but when the birds walk out from in front of the dog and you don't find them again or you just get there in time for the birds to move again you won't mind a dog the relocates on their own. Dogs are smarter than you give them credit for and they want to please their owner by pointing and locking down birds if they are given the chance. Or you can continue to hunt robotic dogs on planted preserve birds that don't relocate or for that matter barely fly. Just my .02. Take it or leave it.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:44 pm

I am sorry guys but if I read more about "well mannered dogs" and dogs that "don't creep on point" etc. I am afraid I am going to puke. I am sure most of you train on pigeons and pen raised planted birds and most of you probably hunt preserves. Your so called " well mannered" dogs may work for you in those situations. Come hunt wild pheasant and wild scaled quail or even wild bobwhites in wide open country like I live in and I will walk with you all day long while your "well mannered" dogs go on point, have the birds walk out from in front of them, you walk up and touch the dog on the head to release him, we walk some more, the same thing over and over and over again, and you never take a shot all day long. What some of you call creeping is a dog relocating on moving birds and if the dog does not relocate you absolutely will not find birds out where I live. You will see some nice points but when the birds walk out from in front of the dog and you don't find them again or you just get there in time for the birds to move again you won't mind a dog the relocates on their own. Dogs are smarter than you give them credit for and they want to please their owner by pointing and locking down birds if they are given the chance. Or you can continue to hunt robotic dogs on planted preserve birds that don't relocate or for that matter barely fly. Just my .02. Take it or leave it.

Tom, the dogs I have seen on these shows were not relocating. Most of them are just not very well trained and show no style. With the exception of a few, I would not take most of these dogs if they were offered free of charge. I agree with you on the wild bird hunting, whether it be blues in your wide open country, or bobs in the thick draws, brush and fence rows where I hunt, I want my dogs cautiously relocating on moving birds. But that is not what we are talking about on these shows.

Charlie

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:20 am

I'm sorry Charlie I apologize to you for misunderstanding.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:39 am

There is nothing to apologize for Tom. I just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. I actually have'nt seen a lot of bird hunting shows, so there may be some good ones. Like I said though, most of the ones I have seen have had really poor dog work. I realize, like someone else mentioned, that they are mostly hunting shows rather than bird dog shows. That may be, but they are usually bragging on the dog work throughout the show while I am rolling my eyes. It just seems to me that it would be just as easy to get good dogs for the shows and get good ratings. Heck, let's let them use one of our dogs.

Charlie

mm · Post by mm » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:47 am

I would like to see a show that goes hunting with a different person and dog or dogs each time in a different place. But a real hunter with his own dogs on a hunt he does, he could take the host. I am sick of these fancy preserve hunts also with the big lodge and the guides and buses , who can afford this. I love to see some guy with a couple of dogs in an olf F 150 hittin spots of public land. But I am sure somthing like that would cost a lot to film. I can see cost wise how the preserve hunts are cheaper to film. But I think the preserve hunt is why most of these shows fail it is the same hunt every time just a different expensive lodge.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:48 am

I am sorry guys but if I read more about "well mannered dogs" and dogs that "don't creep on point" etc. I am afraid I am going to puke. I am sure most of you train on pigeons and pen raised planted birds and most of you probably hunt preserves. Your so called " well mannered" dogs may work for you in those situations. Come hunt wild pheasant and wild scaled quail or even wild bobwhites in wide open country like I live in and I will walk with you all day long while your "well mannered" dogs go on point, have the birds walk out from in front of them, you walk up and touch the dog on the head to release him, we walk some more, the same thing over and over and over again, and you never take a shot all day long. What some of you call creeping is a dog relocating on moving birds and if the dog does not relocate you absolutely will not find birds out where I live. You will see some nice points but when the birds walk out from in front of the dog and you don't find them again or you just get there in time for the birds to move again you won't mind a dog the relocates on their own. Dogs are smarter than you give them credit for and they want to please their owner by pointing and locking down birds if they are given the chance. Or you can continue to hunt robotic dogs on planted preserve birds that don't relocate or for that matter barely fly. Just my .02. Take it or leave it.

Right on!

BrittGSP818 · Post by **BrittGSP818** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:09 am

Birddogz wrote:I am sorry guys but if I read more about "well mannered dogs" and dogs that "don't creep on point" etc. I am afraid I am going to puke. I am sure most of you train on pigeons and pen raised planted birds and most of you probably hunt preserves. Your so called " well mannered" dogs may work for you in those situations. Come hunt wild pheasant and wild scaled quail or even wild bobwhites in wide open country like I live in and I will walk with you all day long while your "well mannered" dogs go on point, have the birds walk out from in front of them, you walk up and touch the dog on the head to release him, we walk some more, the same thing over and over and over again, and you never take a shot all day long. What some of you call creeping is a dog relocating on moving birds and if the dog does not relocate you absolutely will not find birds out where I live. You will see some nice points but when the birds walk out from in front of the dog and you don't find them again or you just get there in time for the birds to move again you won't mind a dog the relocates on their own. Dogs are smarter than you give them credit for and they want to please their owner by pointing and locking down birds if they are given the chance. Or you can continue to hunt robotic dogs on planted preserve birds that don't relocate or for that matter barely fly. Just my .02. Take it or leave it.

Right on!

Couldn't have said better! If I have to "teach" my pup to do everything in the field then whats the point of getting a hunting dog. Get a husky and teach it the same. Remember, most of these breeds have been around for hundreds of years and back then there were no e-collars to ensure the pup stood there while the bird ran off (and why would you want it to do that anyways). Its all instincts, and theirs is much better than ours.

As for the OP, I didn't see anyone mention Birddogs Forever. Great show, each episode was focused on a single breed, different part of the country, and the wild birds in area. Had a really good mix of bird hunting and dog work, and that is what it is all about!

George

Dirtysailor · Post by **Dirtysailor** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:02 pm

Coveryrise64 hits the nail on the head.

scmelik · Post by **scmelik** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:29 am

I think that one of the major issues with filming a bird hunting/bird dog show is the complete unpredictability of wild birds which is why you see so many being filmed on preserves, there is a semi guarantee that birds will be there. Unlike big game hunting where you can put 6 or 7 different guys out there in different spots of the field where you have scouted with trail cams and know the animals are using that route, bird hunting is a real crap shoot. You may go to a field today and have a ton of birds in it at the time you are there, tomorrow you may hit the field at a different part of the day and there are few to none its hard to get the footage needed. Put on top of that, when filming a bird hunting/bird dog show you are on the move in thick cover many times to find birds, its very hard to get a good quality show featuring a bird dog if you can't see the dog.

Sure there are some shows that have done alright, one show comes to mind, I can't remember the hosts name but I know one of his dogs name is Spinner (I believe he is a setter) but that is more about the journey he takes and not so much about the dog work because its just hard to get good film of a dog working. Again I will reference big game hunting and even waterfowl hunting for that matter, the hunter is stationary and they have a fairly good idea on where the animals will be coming from so its easier to prepare the camera for them, plus you can get a good zoom on them when they do decide to come in. Upland hunting you never know where the bird will be or where it will go when it does get up, even with planted birds where they go when they get up is a crap shoot.

I am with all of you that I would love to see a great bird hunting/bird dog show out there but I think to get the quality we would all like would be darn near impossible, especially on wild birds.

This is just my opinion though.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:37 am

In my opinion it doesn't make a bit of difference what kinda of show any of us would like to watch. Any of which we would have a hard time agreeing on. Lets face it deer hunting is the in thing, so that is the most marketable. How many different products are there that we can by to "HELP" us bag that big buck . Those are the companies that will be paying for those shows to be on. Since deer hunting has taken over where I come from it has put a hault to all other forms of hunting which makes it harder to introduce new people to our sport. Since literally most of the land is all leased out by outfitters for deer hunting that means nobody can go hunt anything else on that ground. I think the key is to make it appealing to new comers.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:00 pm

scmelik wrote:Sure there are some shows that have done alright, one show comes to mind, I can't remember the hosts name but I know one of his dogs name is Spinner (I believe he is a setter) but that is more about the journey he takes and not so much about the dog work because its just hard to get good film of a dog working.

Harley Jackson of American Gundog, Spinner is a Britt. I wish they were still filming new episodes, as far as I was concerned it was the best show on.

orbirdhunter · Post by **orbirdhunter** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:34 pm

I'm pretty sure that i just read somewhere that American Gundog is returning this summer with new episodes on the sportsmans channel.....I liked that show also. I remember watching a desert quail hunting show that had some great footage of solid dog work.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:47 pm

orbirdhunter wrote:I'm pretty sure that i just read somewhere that American Gundog is returning this summer with new episodes on the sportsmans channel.....I liked that show also. I remember watching a desert quail hunting show that had some great footage of solid dog work.

Just checked the AGD website, new episodes starting July 2011. Good news.

bwire · Post by **bwire** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:37 pm

New episodes of AGD is good news to me. I enjoyed watching those shows.

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:13 pm

Dogs that hunt on preserves might be like my brit, took him to a couple preserves when my dad got his two liver brit pups, he would not lock up on pen raised phez or quail, he would stand there tail wagging and look at me as to say" Dad, something is not right about these birds"!

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:36 pm

jarbo03 wrote:Dogs that hunt on preserves might be like my brit, took him to a couple preserves when my dad got his two liver brit pups, he would not lock up on pen raised phez or quail, he would stand there tail wagging and look at me as to say" Dad, something is not right about these birds"!

I've never seen that happen. Our dogs point anything they find including rabbits and deer. If a dog won't point a released bird then they won't point about half of the birds in some areas of SD and sure would never point a bird in many field trials. Don't think a dog really cares what the birds background is or at least the good ones don't as their job is to find and point. I have seen dogs get lax on planted birds when they are over exposed in training sessions.

Ezzy

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:19 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
jarbo03 wrote:Dogs that hunt on preserves might be like my brit, took him to a couple preserves when my dad got his two liver brit pups, he would not lock up on pen raised phez or quail, he would stand there tail wagging and look at me as to say" Dad, something is not right about these birds"!
I've never seen that happen. Our dogs point anything they find including rabbits and deer. If a dog won't point a released bird then they won't point about half of the birds in some areas of SD and sure would never point a bird in many field trials. Don't think a dog really cares what the birds background is or at least the good ones don't as their job is to find and point. I have seen dogs get lax on planted birds when they are over exposed in training sessions.

Ezzy

Exactly right!

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:00 pm

Well put Ezzy. A bird is a bird is a bird!

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:47 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
jarbo03 wrote:Dogs that hunt on preserves might be like my brit, took him to a couple preserves when my dad got his two liver brit pups, he would not lock up on pen raised phez or quail, he would stand there tail wagging and look at me as to say" Dad, something is not right about these birds"!
I've never seen that happen. Our dogs point anything they find including rabbits and deer. If a dog won't point a released bird then they won't point about half of the birds in some areas of SD and sure would never point a bird in many field trials. Don't think a dog really cares what the birds background is or at least the good ones don't as their job is to find and point. I have seen dogs get lax on planted birds when they are over exposed in training sessions.

Ezzy

If half the birds in SD are released birds you are right. He would find the birds and look that direction but he would not have that look in his eyes of a dog thats locked on, it was more noticeable with quail than phez. He proved to be one of the4 best dogs on wild phez for 12 years, i dont think how"good" he was has anything to do with it, not sure how but he knew the difference.

outdrguyjr · Post by **outdrguyjr** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:27 am

The bottom line is money. It can cost between $10-15,000 per episode to make one show. Also for the 30 minutes that you see on tv that takes about 20 hours to actually get it in a format that you can watch. There are costs with equipment, crew, editing, travel, insurance, etc. that make creating and marketing a tv show very difficult. Now take the fact that the viewing audience of a wingshooting show is very small and it is often times impossible to make it work for a long period of time. I wish there were more out there...but I not sure that is ever going to happen.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:02 am

I like AGD and Hunting with Hank the best, the rest just had preserve hunt after preserve hunt. It'd be cool if some of these hosts had the guts to go hunt public land like most of us have to. Dog work is generally horrible on upland shows, too much endless, needless chit chat about all their overly, sponsored-paid-for gear.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:49 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:I like AGD and Hunting with Hank the best, the rest just had preserve hunt after preserve hunt. It'd be cool if some of these hosts had the guts to go hunt public land like most of us have to. Dog work is generally horrible on upland shows, too much endless, needless chit chat about all their overly, sponsored-paid-for gear.

If you are going to film a hunting show you need birds and lots of them. There is no way you can do that in most parts of the country with out using released birds. But it really makes no difference as the dogs don't care and unless you are more interested in finding something to complain about instead of all the interesting things they can show they can be pretty good. I just think they spend way to much time talking, showing the hunters, and the shooting and not near enough time on the hunting and dog work. They could improve the dog work on many of the shows but what you see is what many hunters have as far as the dog work. All of the spit and polish we try to put on our dogs is not the norm for the ordinary hunter and most of their audience is the ordinary hunter.

Ezzy

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:40 pm

I think the "ordinary hunter audience" comment is an apt reading.
The question is, who is the ordinary hunter?
I believe the TV execs believe the ordinary hunter either wants to kill a bunch of critters or find out where to go to kill a bunch of critters.
I believe the dog-centric hunters feel that the ordinary hunter sees dog work trumping everything, no matter the critter or the venue.
I don't need to see death raining down, nor do I need to see exemplary dog work along a mown path in a hunting show.
This ordinary hunter prefers a simple look at hunters, dogs and a day when beautiful country, a little to shoot, and a lot to remember is the script.
Probably why no hunting show has satisfied for a long time....probably never will.

Scott Linden · Post by **Scott Linden** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:44 pm

May this bird hunting TV show producer chime in?

You are all right. In a perfect world we would all hunt wild birds with four camera operators and unlimited time and thus, budget. In the real world, it's quite different. We pay for air time and it's not cheap. We pay camera operators, editors, camera rental, production assistants, airlines, gasoline bills, grocery bills and dog food bills. We sit in lodge rooms waiting for the rain to stop and the fog to lift, still paying our crew their daily rate.

The good ones among us search hard for beautiful places, fair-to-better dogs and handlers, plentiful birds (wild and wild-as-possible preserve). We respect our viewers, their intelligence, and hope to know a bit about what they want. If we're lucky, disciplined and skillful, it shows in the final product you watch. (If you are interested, you can see what I'm talking about here: www.scottlindenoutdoors.com.)

We sell sponsorships to cover our expenses and with luck, have enough to pay ourselves at the end of the day. Many times it's nip and tuck. Some of us won't pimp outwardly and respect the intelligence of our viewers, some don't. If someone you know tells you he's getting rich at this, he's a liar. And everyone who thinks it's easy - come on out some time and try it. Bring your checkbook and your thickest skin because everyone's a producer when they're sitting in their recliner with a beer in their hand.

We see good dogs and great dogs. Some not so great. All are genuine and mean well. So do their handlers. We try not to sugar-coat what happens in the field, simply tell a story and educate a little, teach some manners and entertain most people most of the time.

If you want Field Champions, you're in the wrong place. If you want an authentic experience, a little fun, and a fix when you can't get out yourself, feel free to watch my show, Wingshooting USA. (NOT affiliated with The Wingshooter, please note.) Details at the website: www.scottlindenoutdoors.com.

Finally, many ask why bird hunting shows aren't on more often, or more aren't on the air at all. If you want more, ask your TV networks you want more. Tell our sponsors you saw their ads on our shows. Put your money where your mouth is and buy their products. If you like the show, tell the program director at the network you watch. Money may make the world go round, but it also makes it possible for our shows to stay on the air.