Top GSP Pedigree/Breeder

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:42 am

In your own opinion, what is the best bloodline to have in a GSP? And in your opinion what is the best GSP breeder in the US? I know this changes with each individual person, I just want to see and look into all of your suggestions. The next shorthair I buy I'm taking my search nationwide.

jlp8cornell · Post by **jlp8cornell** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:56 am

Check out this recent thread...

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=27029

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:58 am

I personally like the Slick lines, very natural bird dogs. I have experience with those and Tonellis line and would go with the slick lines every day of the week. Blue Dawn Kennels breeds alot of the Slick stuff, so does Mark Wasserman.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:33 am

What are you looking for in a dog? I am biased, but you cant beat Fred Rice at Sundance Kennels. Or of course Brenda and Rick at Walnut Hill, they have proven dogs in about every venue.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:41 am

ACooper wrote:What are you looking for in a dog? I am biased, but you cant beat Fred Rice at Sundance Kennels. Or of course Brenda and Rick at Walnut Hill, they have proven dogs in about every venue.

Oh Andy.............

Coveyrise64

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:34 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:

Coveyrise64

now THAT was funny!

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:38 pm

Hey I admitted my bias when posting!

First you guys try to get me to buy a dog.... now you're pickin on me!

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:06 pm

ACooper wrote:Hey I admitted my bias when posting!

First you guys try to get me to buy a dog.... now you're pickin on me!

"Butt" it was so obvious I could hardly stand to let it go by......

Coveyrise64

JimJackson · Post by **JimJackson** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:46 pm

This looks like a trap, but I will answer with facts. The all time Championship winner was Tulli’s Scatback, which was bred by Joe Amatulli. She was basically a cross between Slick and Saddle. The 2nd all time GSP Championship winner was Tarkas which was also a cross between Slick and a Saddle bitch. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that maybe, just maybe the top GSP blood line is a cross between Saddle and Slick.

I spoke to Amatulli last week he is breeding both his Saddle/Selina bitches this year. I sent him a deposit for two of them.

Jimmy

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:59 pm

I know why Andy is prejudice..With 3 dogs in here out of Fred's breeding they are all a pleasure to work..Very natural in all aspects, and have a huge pointing instinct..Of course I feel the same about our stuff, as the bloodlines are the same or simular.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:09 pm

What is the best ice cream flavor?

For the person not too long ago that complained about something that I posted, the above is a combination analogy/rhetorical question....posted by a once-upon-a-time rocket scientist.

Dirtysteve · Post by **Dirtysteve** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:08 pm

Jim
I sent you a PM

gsp3333 · Post by **gsp3333** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:35 pm

Greg is so right.
My favorite ice cream is the one in the freezer.
My favorite bloodline is the one in the backyard.

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:11 pm

Why do I seem to run out of money before I run out of dogs I would like to buy?

larue · Post by **larue** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:20 pm

I myself like the dogs that Dan hoke has been producing,serious wild bird dogs who have done well in trials.
Dogs like simon,scully,ben ect.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:57 pm

Greg, was that post towards me lol?

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:58 pm

I believe the Quail Championship will be starting in a day or two at Ardmore, OK. Your close enough to make a quick drive up there and spend some time with some quality people and see some great dogs. The more exposure you get to the dogs, trainers and breeders, the easier your decision will be when it's time to pick that next pup..jmo

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:24 pm

bossman wrote:I believe the Quail Championship will be starting in a day or two at Ardmore, OK. Your close enough to make a quick drive up there and spend some time with some quality people and see some great dogs. The more exposure you get to the dogs, trainers and breeders, the easier your decision will be when it's time to pick that next pup..jmo

I would be there in a heart beat and was planning to, and then my buddy called and wanted me to go back to Kansas and do a 4 day hunt with him.

Sorry, I couldn't turn that down! Is the Quail Championship just guys from the Lone Star German Shorthaired Pointer Club or is it a nationwide thing?

Southwind · Post by **Southwind** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:59 pm

The quail championship is a ngspa ch trial. It brings shorthairs from all over the region and across the country. I know blue dawn will be there with the slick dogs and I read where wasserman is going down for the amateur. Should be some great dogs down there.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:15 pm

If you are talking quality over quantity, I don't think you could name a "best" breeder in the country and if you really, truly could, it would probably be some old fellow up on a mountain somewhere who had never seen a field trial, test ground or show ring.

I like Clown dogs on one hand and Rusty dogs on the other. No Slick or Hustler here.

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:16 pm

Well.......I aaaaaaammm coming straight back through Ardmore on the way home. Maybe I'll stop by for a while. If I leave Kansas early enough on Sunday I will try to stop by. It does run through Sunday correct?

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:24 pm

Thanks for all the info. I'm really trying to start looking into pedigrees known nationwide that are held in high opinion by other hunters. I have never heard of the Slick line before. A lot of Texas pedigrees have Rawhide or Dixieland Rusty in them. I want to do a lot of research into different breeders nationwide before I get my next pup.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:12 pm

I'd have to say I've had some pretty good luck with my honey run dogs theres not another dog of any breed that has done what alli has done......

LBH · Post by **LBH** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:14 pm

ElectricShorthairs wrote:Thanks for all the info. I'm really trying to start looking into pedigrees known nationwide that are held in high opinion by other hunters. I have never heard of the Slick line before. A lot of Texas pedigrees have Rawhide or Dixieland Rusty in them. I want to do a lot of research into different breeders nationwide before I get my next pup.

I'm new to this as well, but, a word of advice is to not look for a "Rusty" bred puppy. He's so far back in most all pedigrees you would be wasting your time. Slick lines generally give a cooperative bird dog that is honest, trainable, and manageable, nice personalities I think too. I think that would be a great way to go... here are some sites you can see some different "slick dogs"

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/

http://chisholmcreekpetresort.com/germanshorthairs.htm

http://www.sixxemkennels.com/

http://cuttinwildkennels.com/

penrod · Post by **penrod** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:38 pm

Are you guys heading to Kansas soon? If I remember correctly their season ends a month before ours ends. I'll be there this weekend =D.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:58 pm

LBH wrote:
ElectricShorthairs wrote:Thanks for all the info. I'm really trying to start looking into pedigrees known nationwide that are held in high opinion by other hunters. I have never heard of the Slick line before. A lot of Texas pedigrees have Rawhide or Dixieland Rusty in them. I want to do a lot of research into different breeders nationwide before I get my next pup.
I'm new to this as well, but, a word of advice is to not look for a "Rusty" bred puppy. He's so far back in most all pedigrees you would be wasting your time. Slick lines generally give a cooperative bird dog that is honest, trainable, and manageable, nice personalities I think too. I think that would be a great way to go... here are some sites you can see some different "slick dogs"

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/bluedawnken/

http://chisholmcreekpetresort.com/germanshorthairs.htm

http://www.sixxemkennels.com/

http://cuttinwildkennels.com/

The key to looking for a "Rusty" bred puppy is to know the down lines from Rusty. When all four great-grandfathers are Rusty sons and two great-grandmothers are Rusty grandaughters, like it is on the pedigree of one of my mutts that I'm looking at, then the influence is there, even though it's been recombined and outcrossed. Would you say Dixieland's Rusty wasn't an influence on Tonelli's Rising Sun?

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:45 am

Is there anything to be said for buying a dog straight from Germany? Is that anything different than buying one here?

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:53 am

Oh this is about to get interesting......I own a DK imported from Germany and I wouldn't trade her for the world.... CH Echo Vom Otterbach she needs 2 more legs to finish her MH and will be utility tested this year. The nice thing about the german dogs is you're probably going to end up with a dog that has correct conformation that really can do it all in the field/water...

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:56 am

There's no difference what-so-ever ..... the American version of the breed is just oceans apart from the German version of today.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:45 am

ElectricShorthairs wrote:Greg, was that post towards me lol?

Absolutely not.

While I'm here, and again not directed to you, but the general thread, some people think Rocky Road is best, some people it's Cherry Garcia or bust...I'm a French Vanilla guy. At the risk of insulting some folks' intelligence, the analogy here is that what is best to one person isn't best for another.

To answer the several PMed questions: Patriot PAC-2 and PAC-3.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:53 am

Electric you never mentioned what you are looking for in a dog? If you are looking for a FT dog maybe an impot isn't your best option...

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:17 am

ACooper wrote:Electric you never mentioned what you are looking for in a dog? If you are looking for a FT dog maybe an impot isn't your best option...

I have bird dogs to hunt birds first and foremost. However I'd like to compete every now and then, I'd like to have a DC one day.

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:20 am

ACooper wrote:Electric you never mentioned what you are looking for in a dog? If you are looking for a FT dog maybe an import isn't your best option...

There are lots of things in this world other than Field Trials, why limit yourself? :roll:

Coveyrise64

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:26 am

ACooper wrote:What are you looking for in a dog? I am biased, but you cant beat Fred Rice at Sundance Kennels. Or of course Brenda and Rick at Walnut Hill, they have proven dogs in about every venue.

Coop, when you posted...this total amateur over here in podunk thought she could agree with you...beings I've got some of that stuff. So I had your back for like 8 minutes straight.

Then Terry pulled that fast one with the butt kissing smiley, and I got skeered. Who knows what else he has up his sleeve?

Electric, if a DC is what you're aiming for, Walnut Hill (Snips) sure produces some nice pups. My 2nd signature dog is from there.

Go ahead Terry, I'm ready.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:53 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
ACooper wrote:Electric you never mentioned what you are looking for in a dog? If you are looking for a FT dog maybe an import isn't your best option...
There are lots of things in this world other than Field Trials, why limit yourself? :roll:

Coveyrise64

Terry I agree, but it seemed from the tone of the thread the OP was wanting a FT type dog. There is a whole other world out there!

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:45 pm

No I do not want just a FT dog. The more I learn about FT the more it confirms that I would rather do them just occasionally. The BDC sounds like much more fun and some FT rules seem to contradict what you would want a real bird dog to do.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:03 pm

Is this gonna turn into another bash the FT's thread!

A good field trial bred dog can be a great hunting dog, though the country I hunt in I want a very big running dog. Its easier to reel em in then push em out! I have an AA bred EP sitting out in the kennel right now that finds more than his fair share of birds!

LBH · Post by **LBH** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:12 pm

I'm new to FT's as well ... what are some examples of FT's being contradicting to a what a real bird dog should do?

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:02 am

Generally FT's don't want a dog to relocate at all without permission, try that with running pheasant and see how many you get. I went to a FT in October and walked behind a judge, the whole time he was saying, "little further, little further" the guys EP was 600-700yards out. How is that hunting with the handler? Seems like that dog is hunting for himself and the guy with the whistle is just following along. Basically, some things you do while pheasant hunting contradicts FT rules or the wants of the judges. I haven't had the opportunity to hunt many different species of birds but blue quail and pheasant are what come to mind. I'll compete sure, it'd be neat to own a FC. But I want a hunting buddy first and foremost. The competitive drive in me would want to see how good my dog is vs the best. But I don't need a judge to tell me whether I have a good dog or not, the birds in the freezer can tell me that. Not bashing FTs at all, I just don't fully understand why they want some of the things they want out of a dog.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:47 am

ELS have you ever hunted over a totally broke dog if not maybe you should try it & see how that goes.
Here is also a little news flash if a dog has any brains & most have more then we give them credit for they learn the difference between hunting & F trialing.
Hunting & field trials are two different things & believe it or not a dog can do both & be successful at both.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:08 am

Nobody gonna jump in and defend German dogs? I mean I basically said they won't FT...

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:11 am

ACooper wrote:Nobody gonna jump in and defend German dogs? I mean I basically said they won't FT...

Just out of curiosity what makes you say that?

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:12 am

I'm

Coop

CowboyBirdDogs · Post by **CowboyBirdDogs** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:05 am

I guess the only thing I don't get about FTs is the range they want your dog to have. Isn't 700yards a little bit far? And then having dogs that range out so far you put GPS's on them to keep track of them? How is that watching dog work? I wouldn't mind if mine got out to 150ish yards in open territory. Not trying to offend anyone, inquiring minds just want to know. I'd like to hear from the other side of the fence.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:22 am

The dogs at 700 yrds are part of the game & your on a horse.If you turn that same dog loose on foot to hunt it should shorten up for foot hunting.It's called intellegence,a dog should shorten up to hunt thick cover & range more in the open.Here is another part of the F T game if your dog pointed birds 700 yrds away would it hold till you got there? This is all part of the game to show how much pressure a dog can take & stay broke etc.Like stated you can breed FT dogs but not all will necessarily be FT dogs or range at those distances.
If you have a bootlicker it's very hard to get them to range at even 150 yrs but you can shorten up a bigger running dog.All of my dogs are from HB Fied trial stock & bred back to FT dogs but I hunt on foot & can't go like I used to but I don't loose my dogs.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:18 pm

Its all based on the terrain you hunt, where I hunt you can see for miles. A 50-100 yard dog gets old real fast!

Seems like that dog is hunting for himself and the guy with the whistle is just following along

Heck ya thats what I do!! He knows where the birds are, I just follow him till he finds them!

JimJackson · Post by **JimJackson** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:56 pm

Until you hunt behind a dog that is well trained and polished you just don’t know what a real first rate dog is and how low grade that boot licker really is. Remember dogs that run in field trials have to do much more that just find a bird, heck the difference between a Yugo and a Bentley. Both will get you there, but oh boy what a difference.

SD Pheasant Slayer · Post by **SD Pheasant Slayer** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:00 pm

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:The dogs at 700 yrds are part of the game & your on a horse.If you turn that same dog loose on foot to hunt it should shorten up for foot hunting.It's called intellegence

Really not trying to be insulting, and I understand the mistake as I make them frequently.... it just struck me as being really ironic that you misspelled "intelligence". Haha... just trying to lighten the mood on the thread.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:03 pm

JimJackson wrote:Until you hunt behind a dog that is well trained and polished you just don’t know what a real first rate dog is and how low grade that boot licker really is. Remember dogs that run in field trials have to do much more that just find a bird, heck the difference between a Yugo and a Bentley. Both will get you there, but oh boy what a difference.

Not sure I agree with this. I think everyone has an idea of what they want in a dog and everyone is different. I have never found a FT dog smarter because it will run bigger. I love to watch the big running dog but I also find it more satisfying in many places to have a closer working dog that you don't need to hack constantly to keep it in the smaller areas we sometimes hunt.

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:21 pm

SD if you have read many of my posts you will probably see that I misspell alot of words.There are days I misspell my own name I hope you never have to experience the reasons why in the future.