GSP - Why So Popular?

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:36 am

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:I've never seen one that was as good as a middle of the road setter or pointer.
It takes a pretty good ego, or a dedicated troll, to post this just a few posts after one by a 2 time NGSPA national champion.

Maybe It's your breed blindness that causes you to attack me for having and opinion based on facts. I would think that over a hundred years of cover dog trials and never one cover dog championship won by a GSP would be enough proof.

Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
You have simply over reached. No where did you say anything about the best GSPs and best pointers and setters.

Your claim is one of the two below:

1. That you've seen enough
A. GSPs to know what the best GSPs are capable of
B. Enough pointers and setters to know what the average of each is capable of

And A is less birddog than B.

2. You haven't seen enough of one of the three breeds, in which case you're just talking out of your anal sphincter.

So, I'm assuming that your claim is number 1. That the best GSP is less bird dog than the average pointer or setter. Since there is an "or" there, you are claiming that the best GSP is less bird dog than the lesser bird dog of the two.

That's a pretty big statement.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:47 am

Why can't we all just appreciate each other and each others choice in breed I'm sick of all this breed fighting there is more Important Stuff to worry about that who has the better breed.... come on !

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by brad27 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:20 am

Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
to be an effective troll, one must at least know what one is talking about. otherwise you come off as not so smart.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by huntcrazed » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:21 am

My two cents worth on the argument.

One might want to consider that the dogs that are winning any type of trial are great trial dogs.

So many years ago even centuries people created all the breeds everyone is arguing about for hunting.

Today there is all types of trials and all types of dogs.

Lets make it clear that if one wants to argue which is best lets list their specific abilities to do what in HUNTING and then compare breeds.

If we do compare we have to generalize about the breeds if that is the purpose of the argument.

GSP are not better and other breeds are not better .....all can do great at specific tasks, some are awesome trial dogs, some can do more in one package of a breed in the field.

Why is it so many people that do not hunt enough think that trials are the indication of the best hunting dog?

Mario

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by brad27 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:26 am

Why is it so many people that do not hunt enough think that trials are the indication of the best hunting dog?
would the opposite be true as well?

opinions vs. measurable standards.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by adogslife » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:00 am

opinions vs. measurable standards.
I like that!

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Prairie Hunter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:43 am

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
How many pointers and setters ran at the NAVHDA Invitational? The invitational is open to all breeds as well.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Grouse Dog Guy » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:50 am

It's funny how people have to attack and belittle others for having and opinion based on years of experience and the historical facts. :lol:

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Grouse Dog Guy » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:00 am

Prairie Hunter wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
How many pointers and setters ran at the NAVHDA Invitational? The invitational is open to all breeds as well.

I hunted many years with a fellow that took several dogs to the NAVADA invitational, he stopped hunting with us and told people that our dogs wouldn't let his find any birds.
Maybe NAVADA needs to add a wild bird finding and handling test?

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:01 am

What historical *facts*? You've got nothing to base your claim on...

For example, the national championship. The dog has to qualify in AA events. So, how does a dog that wins an AA stake in a NC qualifier get to be "middle of the road"?

Inquiring minds want to know. Put up or shut up.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Prairie Hunter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:03 am

The problem is, opinions are purely subjective, and open to personal interpretation. Everyone has a right to one, but that doesn't make it true. And, your historical facts are based on cover dog trials, which is not necessarily the definitive standard for judging a great wild bird dog.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by solon » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:04 am

Prairie Hunter wrote: How many pointers and setters ran at the NAVHDA Invitational? The invitational is open to all breeds as well.
There are three English Setters in this years Invitational. All seem to be out of the same kennel (not the same handlers). I would guess that the heavy emphasis on water/duck work in NAVHDA tests is not something the vast majority of pointer/setter owners would be interested in. The pointer and setter breeds are not usually thought of as versatile dogs, although NAVHDA does include them in the breeds it accepts.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:08 am

Greg Jennings wrote:Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
As an aside, I didn't write that and it's not something that I would write even if my training partner running red setters in NAVHDA...

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Prairie Hunter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:18 am

Greg Jennings wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:Our cover dog trials are open to all breeds, how many setters and pointers ran in the NGSPA National Championship?
As an aside, I didn't write that and it's not something that I would write even if my training partner running red setters in NAVHDA...
I only wrote that as a comparison to the cover dog trials statement. There aren't many pointers or setters that have run and passed the invitational. I'm not knocking any breed, just showing how "historical facts" from one particular venue don't necessarily tell the whole story. I don't think one breed is any better than any other, just different.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by brad27 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:27 am

It's funny how people have to attack and belittle others for having and opinion based on years of experience and the historical facts.
he stopped hunting with us and told people that our dogs wouldn't let his find any birds.
Maybe NAVADA needs to add a wild bird finding and handling test?
Since you mention it, them brown dogs are pretty good at hunting trash but I guess that is what they were developed to do.
Thanks for claifying why people call this the coon hound board.
worked pups for months to pass a natural ability test and still didn't have a wild bird dog that was half what a six month old setter or pointer was.
I am guessing it's because they've never seen a good bird dog or they're breed blind.
I've never seen one that was as good as a middle of the road setter or pointer.
black pot and kettle eh? by opening your mouth you destroy your credability.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:39 am

Prairie Hunter wrote:I don't think one breed is any better than any other
I do, but I don't believe in being insulting about it. I think Pointers are better than any other breed but it's just my opinion. We all prefer our breed of choice because we like it better than any other breed and I think that's a wonderfull thing. How dull would life be if everyone liked the same thing. One breed, one bloodline and everyone would be happy and have nothing to talk about.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Grouse Dog Guy » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:44 am

Greg Jennings wrote:What historical *facts*? You've got nothing to base your claim on...

For example, the national championship. The dog has to qualify in AA events. So, how does a dog that wins an AA stake in a NC qualifier get to be "middle of the road"?

Inquiring minds want to know. Put up or shut up.

The historical fact that a GSP has never won a lowly cover dog championship. All they need to be qualified to run is a derby placement in and AF trial. I believe they have run and won championships on most birds but never on grouse and woodcock?

As for the national championship if they can't get there where dose that put them but middle of the road?

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:01 pm

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:What historical *facts*? You've got nothing to base your claim on...

For example, the national championship. The dog has to qualify in AA events. So, how does a dog that wins an AA stake in a NC qualifier get to be "middle of the road"?

Inquiring minds want to know. Put up or shut up.

The historical fact that a GSP has never won a lowly cover dog championship. All they need to be qualified to run is a derby placement in and AF trial. I believe they have run and won championships on most birds but never on grouse and woodcock?

As for the national championship if they can't get there where dose that put them but middle of the road?

You used the NC and no GSP winning as supporting your claim that there are no GSPs that are as good as the average pointer or setter. I'm saying that the NC has *no bearing at all* on your claim as the pointers and setters (that's all there are) are in no way average.

I don't know anything about cover dog trials. GSPs have won wild bird trials in the west.

Now, before you or anyone else gets the wrong idea, my personal opinion is that we have different breeds of dogs for the same reason that we have different flavors of ice cream. Some like vanilla, some like rocky road.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:09 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:we have different breeds of dogs for the same reason that we have different flavors of ice cream. Some like vanilla, some like rocky road.
True, but blueberry cheesecake ice cream is far superior.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:15 pm

Ron R wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:we have different breeds of dogs for the same reason that we have different flavors of ice cream. Some like vanilla, some like rocky road.
True, but blueberry cheesecake ice cream is far superior.
Don't matter what you put in it or on it, if you don't have the basic ingredients, it's just a mess.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ditch__Parrot » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:22 pm

Ron R wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote:we have different breeds of dogs for the same reason that we have different flavors of ice cream. Some like vanilla, some like rocky road.
True, but blueberry cheesecake ice cream is far superior.

No way.. Anything blueberry is mediocre at best. Vanilla, Rocky Road, Pfffff, You're both wrong. Chip & Mint is way better, not even in the same league. I know this because I've tried them all many times and Chip & Mint was far superior in every way. In fact it's the only real ice cream out there...... :lol: :lol:
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:26 pm

Typed a couple of thoughts but will just have to concede that Ditch__Parrot's pun is better than anything that I can come up with on the fly...

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:30 pm

BTW, Ron, I really like your pointer. I had the privilige of seeing Stephen's Bright Copper run a couple of times.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:32 pm

Ditch__Parrot wrote:and Chip & Mint was far superior in every way
Not if your eating in the grouse woods, have you ever tried it there? Chip N Mint is middle of the road at best. Nice try though.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:35 pm

Greg Jennings wrote:BTW, Ron, I really like your pointer. I had the privilige of seeing Stephen's Bright Copper run a couple of times.
Thanks Greg, he's the best I have. He has his holes and faults like most dogs but I love him anyway.

That Shooter pup looks like a great one too. I really like the breeding behind him as well :D . If I was to go GSP that is the route/bloodline I would go.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Greg Jennings » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:43 pm

Ron R wrote:
Ditch__Parrot wrote:and Chip & Mint was far superior in every way
Not if your eating in the grouse woods, have you ever tried it there? Chip N Mint is middle of the road at best. Nice try though.
<Greg almost aspirates iced tea when he reads this>

Good one, Ron.

Thank you for the kind words about Shooter. He's a baby and, as such, is a crap shoot. But, he fills the void left from my Gunner (who had his faults, too).

Good dogs are kind of like good friends...you find them where you can and you overlook a few shortcomings.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Mike50 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:51 pm

snips wrote:GSP's are popular because they are birddogs, intelligent, personable, oh, and beautiful.... :wink:
You left out low maintenance :D I like the 15 minute wash and go 8)

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ditch__Parrot » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:08 pm

Ron R wrote:
Ditch__Parrot wrote:and Chip & Mint was far superior in every way
Not if your eating in the grouse woods, have you ever tried it there? Chip N Mint is middle of the road at best. Nice try though.


I'm laughing too hard to come up with any good reply to this. So you just go ahead and have your Blueberry custard in The Gouse Woods and I'll enjoy my Chip & Mint ice cream in the Flint Hills. :D

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Now I'm going to go check my blood sugar. :mrgreen:
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by markj » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:23 pm

I tried double fudge moose tracks the other day, it was kinda groovy :)

Shorthairs are everymans dog, will hunt most anything, fetch it back and lay down at yer feet while you eat it. Well mine do anyways....

I dont eat ice cream while hunting, gets the trigger all sticky.... but if I did......
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:55 pm

markj wrote:
Shorthairs are everymans dog, will hunt most anything, fetch it back and lay down at yer feet while you eat it. Well mine do anyways....

so how does porcupine taste :lol:
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by markj » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:15 pm

so how does porcupine taste
Kinda like a hedge hog but not as strong as a gopher :) and you gots teeth picks right there for when you is all done....
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by snips » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:32 pm

Just for the record books, Fritz had 5 birds on Copper at DOY Trial.... :P Just sayin'.....But...I like pointers too....Just sayin'
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:38 pm

markj wrote:
so how does porcupine taste
Kinda like a hedge hog but not as strong as a gopher :) and you gots teeth picks right there for when you is all done....
:lol:
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by DGFavor » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:06 pm

What sets these dogs apart from others that make it so desirable? I assume they are great quail dogs, what about grouse?
I don't think there is anything in particular...maybe that's the attraction...could be folks are not that interested in pursuing birds you can kill with a stick...
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:07 pm

snips wrote:Just for the record books, Fritz had 5 birds on Copper at DOY Trial....
Alot of dogs have had better braces than him but not many has had a better career. He has been known to run back and forth on a track and give up the field to his bracemate. He must have been pretty good for you to brag on Fritz because I have never heard you do that before. He too was a special dog from my understanding and anyone that saw him would do that for you.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:09 pm

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:I've never seen one that was as good as a middle of the road setter or pointer.
I guess my dk's find alot of road kills to scoop up in the middle of the rd.I had a setter gave it away, had no nose ,full of burrs and mud......Ep can't stay together in my woods.Always bleeding from thier tails to thier ears.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:51 pm

ep retrieve? Ep don't even have to retrieve a bird to be a field champion.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:15 pm

doesn't mean they wont.....mine made more than a couple 150+ yard blind retrieves this year.......

And you know the man that bred these coulda cared less about a retrieve.
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Why folks feel the need to belittle other breeds is beyond me.....i do it in good hearted jest sometimes but I grew up with shorthairs, only switched to Pointers after a long hiatus , pre-empted by no more wild birds and having my dog and a litter of pups stolen.

Upon jumping back in I desired a specialist....
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by snips » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:19 pm

Ron R wrote:
snips wrote:Just for the record books, Fritz had 5 birds on Copper at DOY Trial....
Alot of dogs have had better braces than him but not many has had a better career. He has been known to run back and forth on a track and give up the field to his bracemate. He must have been pretty good for you to brag on Fritz because I have never heard you do that before. He too was a special dog from my understanding and anyone that saw him would do that for you.
They were both awsome dogs, and it is always a proud moment to do that well against such a respected dog. Does not happen often..All that was before Fritz accumulated all the titles..It might have been the Champion Trial. Oh well.. It was special.
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:45 pm

rschmeider wrote:ep retrieve?
How about a water retrieve :o ? Look closely in the mouth of the dog on the left Chopper (my avatar). He has a quail in it.

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:50 pm

Nice Ron, here's my latest at 9 weeks. No retrieve in those AF NC pups :lol:

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by Ron R » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:00 pm

birddog1968 wrote:here's my latest at 9 weeks. No retrieve in those AF NC pups
NICE :D . More times than not pointers retreive pretty good naturally and like the water (from my experience).
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:29 pm

Incubator quail ? Really !! give me something better. I didn't know quail lived on water.For the record i didn't say anything about swimming. I never had to force fetch any of my GSPs. I know alot of EP that have been forced to fetch.Just saying if your dog is going to be a field champion it should have to retrive.........I seen alot of EP hunter on outdoor channel with a Lab so they can find the downed birds/cripples :mrgreen: .

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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by mik » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:36 pm

I went with a GSP after my Weimaraner because there were a number of very good breeders near my home to choose from, I like the temperament of the breed in general, their short easy manageable coat, and I haven't seen an ugly one yet...80% of what I hunt is ruff grouse and Woodcock in swamps and young growth woods.....

Otto just ran his NAVHDA NA this weekend at 14 months old and scored a Prize I 112 points.....A result of good breeding (I think), plenty of young dog bird exposure, and a start at some training.....

So far, I don't second guess my decision at all. He's a mild mannered spoiled house pet who loves to be out running in the woods and fields.

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rschmeider
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:25 pm

rschmeider wrote:Incubator quail ? Really !! give me something better. I didn't know quail lived on water.For the record i didn't say anything about swimming. I never had to force fetch any of my GSPs. I know alot of EP that have been forced to fetch.Just saying if your dog is going to be a field champion it should have to retrive.........I seen alot of EP hunter on outdoor channel with a Lab so they can find the downed birds/cripples :mrgreen: .
Last edited by rschmeider on Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gittrdonebritts
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:32 pm

rschmeider wrote:
rschmeider wrote:Incubator quail ? Really !! give me something better. I didn't know quail lived on water.For the record i didn't say anything about swimming. I never had to force fetch any of my GSPs. I know alot of EP that have been forced to fetch.Just saying if your dog is going to be a field champion it should have to retrive.........I seen alot of EP hunter on outdoor channel with a Lab so they can find the downed birds/cripples :mrgreen: .

you really need to learn how to re size your Pics its pretty annoying having to scroll all over

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rschmeider
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:42 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:
rschmeider wrote:
rschmeider wrote:Incubator quail ? Really !! give me something better. I didn't know quail lived on water.For the record i didn't say anything about swimming. I never had to force fetch any of my GSPs. I know alot of EP that have been forced to fetch.Just saying if your dog is going to be a field champion it should have to retrive.........I seen alot of EP hunter on outdoor channel with a Lab so they can find the downed birds/cripples :mrgreen: .

you really need to learn how to re size your Pics its pretty annoying having to scroll all over
don't know how?

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gittrdonebritts
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by gittrdonebritts » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:45 pm

PM sent :lol:

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birddog1968
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by birddog1968 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm

I know alot of retrievers that get forced too, almost all of em....its not about the going to the bird its about the delivery.......

I will FF every dog i own regardless of natural ability......
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.

Hunters Pale Rider

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rschmeider
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Re: GSP - Why So Popular?

Post by rschmeider » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:19 pm

gittrdonebritts wrote:PM sent :lol:
thanks

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