New Member Breed Question

[bjohnston11]

I am looking to get a bird dog/retriever in the next 12 months but would like some input pertaining to breed recommendations. I live and hunt in eastern NC and currently do a lot of waterfowl hunting in impoundments. I also plan on doing a lot of upland hunting in the very near future. The bird hunting will mostly occur on preserves due to the lack of wild bird opportunities. We are looking for a small (25-40 lb) dog that will be very family oriented. We need something that will be great with my 6 yo daughter and other animals as we have a 11 yo jack russell and a cat. I'm looking for a dog that ideally will be split between duck hunting and bird hunting. I plan on doing some training myself but will also rely on professional help. The French Brittanys look appealing but was wondering about their waterfowl capabilities.

thanks in advance

Fletcher Johnston
Cape Carteret NC

[kninebirddog]

Best bet is go to some trials and breed clubs in your area and see the dogs and breeds for yourself

[Hookadooka BirdDogs]

A pointing lab might be a good fit. Good Luck.

[Birddogz]

French Britts would be perfect. They can handle the temps.

[AzDoggin]

If you are committed to 25-40 pounds and you want a versatile, then a smaller French or American Britt will probably be one of your best options. There are a few GSP's that are smaller as well and they would certainly be up to the tasks you describe. MOST of the other versatiles are a little bigger than 40 pounds.

This handsome dude is a French Britt sire in your home state from a good breeder down there between Greensboro and Raleigh. ( carolinabrittanys.com ) If you want to do some research, look into gundogbreeders.com.

Have Fun!!

(I agree with Knine - go to some trials, go see some dogs and talk to people - it'll help you define your needs alot better. If you want to waterfowl hunt, be sure to discuss that with the breeder and make sure his/her dogs take to water OK. Seems some do more than others.)

[gittrdonebritts]

As a Brittany man it pains me to say this but you might have good luck with a boykin or water spaniel they were bred as water dogs and do very well in the uplands I have hunted with both and would own either, seeing as your a duck hunter first it would just make more sense to me to go with a breed like that. I have had good luck using my britts for waterfowl but all the upland training needs to come first then the waterfowl work and since I only hunt ducks and geese a few times before the upland season it works great, but if i wanted a smaller breed to primaraly be a water dog then upland I'd go with a boykin a AWS. just my 2 cents.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Fletcher,
You might consider a Small Munsterlander, as your choice, they are great tracker/retrievers and point upland birds well also. The SM dogs are about the size of a
a Brit.
RGD/Dave

L.C. one of my Small Munsterlanders females that retrieves anything shot, and is a Grouse finding machine.

[AzDoggin]

As a Brittany man it pains me to say this but you might have good luck with a boykin or water spaniel they were bred as water dogs and do very well in the uplands I have hunted with both and would own either, seeing as your a duck hunter first it would just make more sense to me to go with a breed like that. I have had good luck using my britts for waterfowl but all the upland training needs to come first then the waterfowl work and since I only hunt ducks and geese a few times before the upland season it works great, but if i wanted a smaller breed to primaraly be a water dog then upland I'd go with a boykin a AWS. just my 2 cents.

I'm really glad you posted this info about the Boykin - gave me a chance to learn a little more. Looks like they were born and bred to hunt waterfowl down south - some call them "the little dog that doesn't rock the boat." They look like awesome dogs. I have never seen or read anything about them before. Gotta love GDF for learning "dog."

Agree it depends on the OP's priorities. Sounds like family dog first, but can't tell whether upland or waterfowl takes the next priority. If waterfowl - it does look like the Boykin would be an awesome choice.

[gittrdonebritts]

Az,
there great little dogs My buddy has 2 had I would definitely own one if i had room and my wife wouldn't skin me There temperament is like any spaniel and they have a hard drive to please.

almost forgot they are the SC state dog so I'm sure you could find plenty of breeders near you.

[AzDoggin]

Az,
there great little dogs My buddy has 2 had I would definitely own one if i had room and my wife wouldn't skin me There temperament is like any spaniel and they have a hard drive to please.

almost forgot they are the SC state dog so I'm sure you could find plenty of breeders near you.

I'm gonna have to take all the kitchen knives away from my wife pretty soon too Plan to bring another dog into the pack this summer...still laying groundwork, if you know what I mean.

I'm going to look harder at the Boykin as well. Leave no stone unturned is always my motto - (which then leads to paralysis of analysis - but it's all good)

[gittrdonebritts]

AZ,
I'm trying to do the same but things aren't going as planned but as my old Ag teacher in High school always said its easier to ask for forgiveness then to ask for permission I really want to add a boykin but that might still be awhile down the road got some other options Brittany wise.

[FrenchBritt]

As a breeder of the French Brittany I would not recommend this breed for waterfowl. They would suit your every other need but they are not a waterfowl breed.
There are such wonderful other breeds out there for waterfowl.

[AzDoggin]

As a breeder of the French Brittany I would not recommend this breed for waterfowl. They would suit your every other need but they are not a waterfowl breed.
There are such wonderful other breeds out there for waterfowl.

Hey, welcome to the Forum - glad you are here!!

Could you elaborate a little on your statement that the French Britt is "not a waterfowl breed?"

Of course the breed is primarily upland bird dogs by breeding, same as the Am. Brittany, but Brittany's are in the category of versatile dog. I'd assume they'd do fine jump shooting ducks along smaller waterways, making the retreives.

If the temperatures were fairly temperate, could/would your dogs sit in a blind and retreive ducks over decoys? It's not what they are bred to do, but...if trained and hunted could/would they do it? (not talking 12 pound Canadian geese here)

Ruffshooter, you out there? What say you? American Britt folks? Is the Brittany a "versatile?"

[Coveyrise64]

If you are committed to 25-40 pounds and you want a versatile, then a smaller French or American Britt will probably be one of your best options. There are a few GSP's that are smaller as well and they would certainly be up to the tasks you describe. MOST of the other versatiles are a little bigger than 40 pounds.

This handsome dude is a French Britt sire in your home state from a good breeder down there between Greensboro and Raleigh. ( carolinabrittanys.com ) If you want to do some research, look into gundogbreeders.com.

Have Fun!!

(I agree with Knine - go to some trials, go see some dogs and talk to people - it'll help you define your needs alot better. If you want to waterfowl hunt, be sure to discuss that with the breeder and make sure his/her dogs take to water OK. Seems some do more than others.)

Neat looking dog......

Coveyrise64

[gittrdonebritts]

I can say my dogs are versatile, and i Believe they all have the capabilities to do so no matter if it is a "french" or "American" I can shoot birds upland or waterfowl over my britts and rabbits and onetime even a treed coon that of course was shot after she was in the house like AZ said if the temp is good and the water isn't rough they do very well i do it in cut crop fields and they do just fine.
And one more thing I'm kinda sick of the whole french and american britts there all brittanys might start some crap with that but just how i feel/

[ezzy333]

I think you will find most breeds can do most anything when given a chance. The Brit will do well with the water retrieving though a goose is pretty big for them to handle and they like most of the others are going to have a problem when the water gets too cold. But for jump shooting duck they will do an exellent job if give a little training so they know what you want.

Ezzy

[AzDoggin]

And one more thing I'm kinda sick of the whole french and american britts there all brittanys might start some crap with that but just how i feel/

They are all Brittanys. Some are a little bit different in looks, but pretty much the same in every other way it seems. I didn't realize it but somewhere along the line in America, black was disallowed in Am. Britts because those in control were concerned that breeders would start mixing in pointer blood to get bigger runners. After spending some time reading stuff on a French Britt form in France (for English speakers), I've concluded theyr'e all the same. Those guys describe the whole gamut between smallish very close working dogs that are always checking in to big runners that are very independent and you need a GPS to track. Man I hope we didn't just start another cage match of tastes great v. less filling. They're all great dogs.

[gittrdonebritts]

I have seen dogs from some of the biggest Britt trial lines hunt no farther than 60 yards and a "french" dog run huge and like you said needs a GPS unit to see which zip code there in lol, for example My JIll has several Horse back Champs in her ped and she hunts close. but I can see were the whole no black thing came in but i like the look of most of the black britts and thats something I'd like to see change in the AKC

[ezzy333]

And one more thing I'm kinda sick of the whole french and american britts there all brittanys might start some crap with that but just how i feel/

They are all Brittanys. Some are a little bit different in looks, but pretty much the same in every other way it seems. I didn't realize it but somewhere along the line in America, black was disallowed in Am. Britts because those in control were concerned that breeders would start mixing in pointer blood to get bigger runners. After spending some time reading stuff on a French Britt form in France (for English speakers), I've concluded theyr'e all the same. Those guys describe the whole gamut between smallish very close working dogs that are always checking in to big runners that are very independent and you need a GPS to track. Man I hope we didn't just start another cage match of tastes great v. less filling. They're all great dogs.

Black was not allowed in France either when they were first imported to this country. They are the ones to change the standard to allow them. The first Brits I had looked and acted like the French Brits do today. Over the years we have added some style, a little more run, less coat, and a little more forward in attitude. It was impossible to find a Brit back in those days that would carry its tail up and anything unusual would have them with their tails between their legs. The difference in the two dogs today is the dogs that have been here for several generations have been bred to do what we need them to do in this country while the French dogs are bred to do what they need in that country. Sometime in about anothr 50 years someone will import some from France and will want to call them French Brits because the dogs that have been here for a few years will tend to be Americanized and the cycle will start all over.

Ezzy

[AzDoggin]

I have seen dogs from some of the biggest Britt trial lines hunt no farther than 60 yards and a "french" dog run huge and like you said needs a GPS unit to see which zip code there in lol, for example My JIll has several Horse back Champs in her ped and she hunts close. but I can see were the whole no black thing came in but i like the look of most of the black britts and thats something I'd like to see change in the AKC

You said it gdb. Those trial line dogs got there because they were trainable. That's all I want really, is for my next dog to be trainable for how I want to hunt with her. Man, you just can't get swallowed up by all the hype that folks write to market the dogs. For whatever reason, the French Britt breeders want to set those dogs apart from the Am. Britts, and less often vice versa. Everybody wants to have an angle I guess.

[ezzy333]

I have seen dogs from some of the biggest Britt trial lines hunt no farther than 60 yards and a "french" dog run huge and like you said needs a GPS unit to see which zip code there in lol, for example My JIll has several Horse back Champs in her ped and she hunts close. but I can see were the whole no black thing came in but i like the look of most of the black britts and thats something I'd like to see change in the AKC

AKC has nothing to do with writting the standard for any breed. It is the sponsoring breed club that writes the standards and gives them to AKC but they don't write them or enforce them. They will register black dogs but you can not show them in a show where the dogs are being judged against the standard we have written for the breed.

Ezzy

[AzDoggin]

Sometime in about anothr 50 years someone will import some from France and will want to call them French Brits because the dogs that have been here for a few years will tend to be Americanized and the cycle will start all over.
Ezzy

And round and round it goes. Genetics is an amazing thing. Ezzy you could probably make big bucks by starting your own designer breed - maybe a Britt and a Poodle - a Brittoodle?

Goldendoodles are all the rage around here right now. People are paying alot of $$ for 'em.

[gittrdonebritts]

I have seen dogs from some of the biggest Britt trial lines hunt no farther than 60 yards and a "french" dog run huge and like you said needs a GPS unit to see which zip code there in lol, for example My JIll has several Horse back Champs in her ped and she hunts close. but I can see were the whole no black thing came in but i like the look of most of the black britts and thats something I'd like to see change in the AKC

AKC has nothing to do with writting the standard for any breed. It is the sponsoring breed club that writes the standards and gives them to AKC but they don't write them or enforce them. They will register black dogs but you can not show them in a show where the dogs are being judged against the standard we have written for the breed.

Ezzy

there you go again Ezzy showing your amazing knowledge and also making me look like an @$$ just like when we hang out at your house lol I hope the breed club would change the standard I love those black britts

[bjohnston11]

Thanks for all the responses. Boykins are definitely an option. My only reservation is that they are flushers, not pointers. To answer someones question, the water fowl hunting I do will be from a blind over cut corn. Also I think it will be a 50-50 split between ducks (no geese) and upland (mostly preserves).

Thanks again!!!

[AzDoggin]

Thanks for all the responses. Boykins are definitely an option. My only reservation is that they are flushers, not pointers. To answer someones question, the water fowl hunting I do will be from a blind over cut corn. Also I think it will be a 50-50 split between ducks (no geese) and upland (mostly preserves).

Thanks again!!!

Well heck if you're not asking your dog to go into water in the winter time that opens your options alot. I'm sure there are a whole host of dogs that could meet your needs if you can find one on the smallish side - female most likely. Pointers, setters, Britts, GSP. Small Munsterlander, Boykin and others I'm forgetting all have individual dogs in the 40 pound range. You have some excellent options - narrowing down is alot of fun, too. Finding a quality breeder in any of the breeds you're interested in is, IMO one of the most important deals. S/he can help you get the right dog, obviously, but also help immensely with training info as well as referrals to trainers, clubs, whatever in your area. Then of course you have the yahoo's on GDF to bust your chops every now and then. It's all good - enjoy!!

[bjohnston11]

I think i mistated my duck hunting setting. It is a flooded corn impoundment with an average depth of 18 inches. Also, the coldest it got here this year while hunting wasabout 18.

Thanks

[nikegundog]

I hunt ducks, geese,and pheasants(wild), owned labs for the last twenty years. I just picked up a springer for a change of pace, thought the smaller dog might be nicer in the house. After having him for 2 weeks now, I have spent more time pulled burrs off him as I have in the previous twenty years of owning labs. Just a thought when choosing. If you plan on hunting mostly ducks and pheasants I wouldn't rule out a flusher.

[Redfishkilla]

An obedient flusher would be a lot of fun hunting pen raised birds, a hard headed pointer is not as fun on pen raised birds. One of my pet peeves is when hunting pen raised birds and I have to chase around a crappy pen raised quail in front of my dog on point just to get the sorry bird to fly. It's not like looking for raised birds is hard, most of the time you planted em or you at least know where they'll be. However, I would never find wild birds without my big running brittanys and it's easy to flush the birds myself. My 2 cents, I think you'd love the Boykin or Springer, they make great pets, also, about the hair, if you trim em and put a little show sheen on em, they don't have that bur problem near as bad. Good Luck, wish I was in the puppy market.

[crackerd]

Boykins can cut ice too - even without Show-sheen on their skates.



Red, be sure and let's hear how your mate makes out getting his pup.

MG

[birddog1968]

Cut Ice, thats a good one.

[Birddogz]

1968, is that your Lab or pointer in the ice? I can't tell by the pic.

[AzDoggin]

Cut Ice, thats a good one.

: My voice gets higher describing that picture - holy crap that water gets colder and it ain't water anymore