What holds Newb's back from Trialing?

[slistoe]

Entrance fees and travel expenses.Can be a problem for many.
Trials that often run on weekdays. Especially if you hope to take "family" holidays at all.
Lack of trialing experience and knowledge of judging intricacies. How would you get experience without starting? There are no "intricacies" that I am aware of, but certainly each individual judge will have "preferences" that will color his judging differently than another within the general shade of the rules.
Gut feeling that there is little chance of placing in an open stake where you're competing against professional handlers, whose livelihoods depend on winning trials. Certainly the pros will win/place more than any one amateur might. They are running eight times in the stake and you are running once - who has the better chance of owning the dog that outperforms himself that day? But it has been my experience that if you show up with a dog that is equal in quality to the eight the pro is running you will place proportionately.
Gut feeling that there is little chance of winning an amateur stake, where the judges are often professional handlers being asked to judge dogs that they may have trained and that are in some instances being handled by some of the very same amateur owners who are paying their wages. Again, my experience has been that the folks judging a stake are looking to reward the dog that most pleases them in terms of the standards of the stake. Each has a different bias in the relative importance of certain aspects of performance, but they are genuinely interested in which dog is the best that day. Show them a dog they like and they will reward the dog for it.
To get in the game, I really feel you need to place a dog with a professional trainer/handler, and that involves a bit more discretionary income than I care to share. That depends on the level at which you want to compete. It takes a pretty well heeled amateur to compete on a national level. Locally.....?

[helpful_cub]

I took my dog out to a trial just to try and find a trainer. I've never worked with the hunting part of a dog before so I was looking for a Pro that I could hire for help. That's when I got an odd surprise... My GSP is a rescue dog, so he does have some abuse history, he was also neutered by the shelter and he's a little over 1 year old. Apparently all of this was against him because I didn't find anyone really interested in working with him. Some people liked his look and character but didn't go any further than that. So, I don't see why I'd want to associate with this lot of people; I mean its not the dog's fault he has a bad past, now he's ready to move on and learn. I ran him down in Prado this past weekend just to see what he would do. He found dozens of woodcock in a seemingly empty field. Then to follow up he did a perfect water retrieve in a dog pond, something I never trained him to do.

So putting all that behind me, I don't know how to ride a horse. I actually don't mind running to keep up, but then I have to deal with all of the horse people getting in my way as I try to path with the dog. If he can see me, he'll just keep going wider and wider until I move on.

I'd love him to have a Junior title before I put him into the middle of all of those distractions. He's still learning what all of these new dogs and people mean to him. He's actually fine with 90% of the people out there but that 10% seems to remind him of his past abuse and his mind switches into the wrong mode. So more socializing is definitely needed along with more training to help him keep focused.

Bird session! Seriously, I don't see why anyone would hold any bird-dog related competitions during the bird session. This dog is meant to work and bring home game and the only time that can legally happen is during the hunting session.

[ultracarry]

What trial did you go to? If you are looking for a trainer who can work with him and help make him happy and learn I know of a good trainer.
If you.went to the local hunt test in lakeview you might have seen his rig. With that type of a dog you need someone who is passionate about making them happy and putting in the extra effort. A lot of trainers are looking at it as taking way too much time. Send me a pm and ill give you his contact info.

[Chief_dog]

I attended my first field trial about five years ago. Instead of just going and watching, I entered two young dogs. One was a 21 month old male who basically broke himself at 13 months. I entered him in the Amateur Gun Dog because I didn't want to chance him coming unbroke on me in a derby stake. The other was a 18 month old female who I ran in the derby. I did not have high expectations. I had three goals for the field trial: 1) have a good time, 2) not embarrass myself, and 3) get my gundog around clean. Both stakes had about 15 dogs, and I ended up taking home two fourth place ribbons. I about had a heart attack when they asked for my gundog in the callbacks because I'd never been around a field trial, let alone a callback before! Anyway, those two fourth place ribbons were my introduction to a wonderful sport, and I have met some of my best friends I've ever had while field trialing.

I don't have a lot of money, but I'm still able to attend a couple trials every year. I usually sleep in my pickup or a tent, bring my own food and drinks.... basically anything to keep the costs down for me. My main expenses are fuel and entry fees. You don't have to use a pro. You don't have to have a horse and trailer. You don't have to have a lot of money. All you need is a nice dog, and you can be competitive. If I can do it, just about anybody can.

[kensfishing]

I attended my first field trial about five years ago. Instead of just going and watching, I entered two young dogs. One was a 21 month old male who basically broke himself at 13 months. I entered him in the Amateur Gun Dog because I didn't want to chance him coming unbroke on me in a derby stake. The other was a 18 month old female who I ran in the derby. I did not have high expectations. I had three goals for the field trial: 1) have a good time, 2) not embarrass myself, and 3) get my gundog around clean. Both stakes had about 15 dogs, and I ended up taking home two fourth place ribbons. I about had a heart attack when they asked for my gundog in the callbacks because I'd never been around a field trial, let alone a callback before! Anyway, those two fourth place ribbons were my introduction to a wonderful sport, and I have met some of my best friends I've ever had while field trialing.

I don't have a lot of money, but I'm still able to attend a couple trials every year. I usually sleep in my pickup or a tent, bring my own food and drinks.... basically anything to keep the costs down for me. My main expenses are fuel and entry fees. You don't have to use a pro. You don't have to have a horse and trailer. You don't have to have a lot of money. All you need is a nice dog, and you can be competitive. If I can do it, just about anybody can.

I remember that. You were a basket case. It was alot of fun.

[RoostersMom]

helpful_cub,

Don't give up on finding a trainer.... ask here on the board and they can point you to someone. Every dog I own is spayed/neutered - I've observed that the only difference between my hunting dogs and others that are intact is that my dogs focus on birds all the time - they don't chase females in heat nor do they act squirrely if they go into heat. Plus, I'll never have a female die of pyometra or breast cancer.

The first time I ran a "shelter dog" in an AKC hunt test, the judge said "he's the best dog I've judged all day," and "is he an Elhew bred dog?" When I told him he was from the city shelter, he was shocked. The pup (10 mos) pointed a woodcock on the backfield and found 4 quail in the bird field. I was fostering him for the shelter, he is now in a happy home and works every weekend at a game farm - he pointed and retrieved over 300 pheasants this year and who knows how many quail. He's also very good on wild birds.

Just take the time to find the right trainer - and maybe you can join your local breed club that has hunt tests and the like. My club is very good about supporting rescue - as every breed club should be - and they welcome new owners with rescues. Sometimes these rescues were not field bred or have been screwed up along the way, but in my experience in fostering for the city shelter - at least 90% of the dogs I've fostered will make good hunting companions - field trial CH - maybe not, but good hunting companions, yes.

[Chukar12]

by helpful_cub

My GSP is a rescue dog, so he does have some abuse history, he was also neutered by the shelter and he's a little over 1 year old. Apparently all of this was against him because I didn't find anyone really interested in working with him. Some people liked his look and character but didn't go any further than that. So, I don't see why I'd want to associate with this lot of people;

Bird session! Seriously, I don't see why anyone would hold any bird-dog related competitions during the bird session. This dog is meant to work and bring home game and the only time that can legally happen is during the hunting session.

So as pointed out many times we cannot understand inflection or tone in words but these statements are pretty judgemental. The first is understandable from your point of view, depending on what type of trial you were at and who you spoke to; their lack of interest may have been a matter of cross purposes. At a trial you will run into pros who travel a lot of distance with dogs rather than staying at a home base and their business model is designed to train and handle field trial dogs for their string. The trainer you may need would be a seminar type such as the Smith seminars, or a local trainer with a kennel, often bird clubs have a pro that can be helpful.

The second statement is just ignorant. These dogs are working, and as the argument is rather old here, suffice it to say that most spring trials are out of season in Ca and some fall trials do bleed over. You get to pick and choose which you attend, as do the other participants. Just as a hunter chooses when they go afield. I spent 11 days field trialing in this bird season and in the 40 day range hunting. I feel pretty balanced, and generally, believe it or not I am pleased with what I choose to do. Belonging to something is largely the amount of effort you care to put into it, and the point of view you bring to the table.

I would gladly help you find a trainer in California and or a trial or club venue that suits you personally if you would like to PM me a number you can be reached at and we can discuss what you are looking for. It isn't hard to get help, you just have to ask and get pointed in the right direction.

[r nickell]

Everyone on this forum wants something diffrent from their dogs. I have no interest in running field trials but that is not to say I can not learn from those that do. My dogs are pets first and hunting dogs second. Does that mean they are bad hunting dogs? No not for my purpose in fact for what they are used for they are very good. Are they perfect is form? no, are they steady to wing and shot? no. But mine are steady on point for as long as it take for any group I am with to meander over and find them. They do hold tight till tapped on the ear and allowed to relocate to help us pin point the birds. Can they find point and retrieve 3 birds in 15 mins? Last Sunday they found pointed and retrieved 33 singles and doubles in just over 2 hours so the awnser is probley yes. No mine are fine dogs for what I use them for but they are also fine dogs because those of you that chase title's helped make them so. Very few weekend hunters spend the time or the money to keep improving the blood lines to the extent that those focused on field trials do. Their efforts to create through selective breeding the top field trial dogs helps to improve much of the breeding stock even we hunters end up with.
Not everyone that owns a dog is interested in running in a field trial. For many of us the time spent with family and freinds walking and watching the dogs work as we chase quail is the beauty of the sport. And at the end of a day in the field as I load up the dogs in the car I always smile cause I got to spend a few hour with a couple of my best freinds doing what the three of us love best. So please never tell me I have never hunted behind a good dog cause I have two of them laying next to me as I type this. And please let me never think a field trial dog can't really hunt cause somewhere in the back ground of these two rescue mutts on my floor there probley was a CH on one of the dog's name. So at least for this Newbe the awnser to the question of what keeps me from field trialing is lack of interest in it. But thank to those of you that do.

[jimssetters]

I have always had a slight interest but something always in the way. Now it would have to be my job,(WORKING EVERY WEEKEND). I did get day off to watch at Talbot Wildlife in march. Hope to see alot os English Setters. Love to watch em run.

[Reveille75]

I just got back from my first trail and had a blast. It was held at the Duval County Ranch just outside of Freer, Texas. I have never been around a group of friendlier, more willing to help people. There was a wrangler there who rented gentle horses so I got to watch all the events from horseback. In the gallery with me was always a knowledgeable person to give me the color commentary. Oftentimes it was the wife of the handler who would inform me of what was happening and believe me, there is a lot going on that a beginner doesn't see. I watched dogs like I have never seen before perform for a solid hour at full speed.
I have to go to a few more to find the event I can do well at. I'm not sure that I am capable of pulling off All Age, seeing your dog every twenty minutes is not my idea of a partnership.
My only regret is not going to one sooner. I recommend the experience, without hesitation, to anyone who wants to learn more about dogs. There were a lot of women there so my wife was comfortable and had a great time. Just go!
David

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

I'm not sure that I am capable of pulling off All Age, seeing your dog every twenty minutes is not my idea of a partnership.

Its the ultimate partnership!!!! You have to have a very good partnership with your all-age dogs or else they would just go of and leave you!!!!

[birddogger]

Everyone on this forum wants something diffrent from their dogs. I have no interest in running field trials but that is not to say I can not learn from those that do. My dogs are pets first and hunting dogs second. Does that mean they are bad hunting dogs? No not for my purpose in fact for what they are used for they are very good. Are they perfect is form? no, are they steady to wing and shot? no. But mine are steady on point for as long as it take for any group I am with to meander over and find them. They do hold tight till tapped on the ear and allowed to relocate to help us pin point the birds. Can they find point and retrieve 3 birds in 15 mins? Last Sunday they found pointed and retrieved 33 singles and doubles in just over 2 hours so the awnser is probley yes. No mine are fine dogs for what I use them for but they are also fine dogs because those of you that chase title's helped make them so. Very few weekend hunters spend the time or the money to keep improving the blood lines to the extent that those focused on field trials do. Their efforts to create through selective breeding the top field trial dogs helps to improve much of the breeding stock even we hunters end up with.
Not everyone that owns a dog is interested in running in a field trial. For many of us the time spent with family and freinds walking and watching the dogs work as we chase quail is the beauty of the sport. And at the end of a day in the field as I load up the dogs in the car I always smile cause I got to spend a few hour with a couple of my best freinds doing what the three of us love best. So please never tell me I have never hunted behind a good dog cause I have two of them laying next to me as I type this. And please let me never think a field trial dog can't really hunt cause somewhere in the back ground of these two rescue mutts on my floor there probley was a CH on one of the dog's name. So at least for this Newbe the awnser to the question of what keeps me from field trialing is lack of interest in it. But thank to those of you that do.

Very good post!!
Charlie