pro or not

[larue]

After the recent loss of max,I was remembering all of the different events that we did together,and yet I wonder how far he could have gone,if he had been in ran by a pro.
This brings up the question,which you rather have,all the memories of doing it yourself and accept the limitations that brings ,such as no hour events ect.
Or would you rather have the dog have the best chance to win,to maximize his achievements,as a good pro would do and get the wins,but not the memories.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Dennis~I lost one about a year ago to cancer. He was 6 1/2. He had been with a pro since he was 1. I got him back for hunting season, but that was pretty much it. It tears my heart that I didn't get to spend more time with him. I miss him every day. But some days it's like I just realize he's gone. Kinda wierd.I'm gonna make it a point to make sure that all of my trial dogs spend more "home" time from here on out.

On the training side of it. I can get em broke, but I don't have huge ground or a horse/4 wheler that you need for the rest of it. If I had all of that they wouldn't go to a pro.

Oh yeah, one more thing about sending your dog to a pro to go on the circuit. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Doug

[bhairhoger]

I want the best of both worlds! I want to train my dogs to get them to the highest level. I know a pro could probably do it faster but I would not get the same feeling when someone comments on how well my dog preforms. Plus haft the fun of owning a dog is the training/testing and the other half is the hunting!

[ezzy333]

I guess I have never understood the thrill of owning someone elses dog. If my dog can't call my kennel, house, or lap home then is it really mine or do I just pay the bills?

Ezzy

[Birddog3412]

I guess I have never understood the thrill of owning someone elses dog. If my dog can't call my kennel, house, or lap home then is it really mine or do I just pay the bills?

Ezzy

I see your point. I look at it like.....anyone with a deep enough pocket can buy a well bred pup (it may take a few tries) and pay to have it trained and it will probably do some winning.

[Firemedic]

I guess I have the best of both worlds. I get to apprentice under a pro trainer, who gives me the tools and knowledge I need, and I get to trial my own dogs.

[Birddog3412]

I guess I have the best of both worlds. I get to apprentice under a pro trainer, who gives me the tools and knowledge I need, and I get to trial my own dogs.

Thats awesome.

[Karen]

I think I have the best of both worlds. I use a pro to train and condition my dogs and I run them myself. Once broke & ready to compete, they spend a little more than half the year at home. When they're not at home, we're either working them on the weekends with the trainer or they're with us at trials.

Even when they're being broke, patterned and polished by the trainer, we go down on weekends to work them so we're a team when the time comes to compete.

[ElhewPointer]

Its all about opportunities for the animal. My dog won the Arkansas, Michigan championships. A RU Ch in Montana and a classic in Georgia. That ddog would have never had those chances in my hands.

As far as price. Wrong. You are looking at it wrong. If you were to go to all the trials the pro did, it would probably be more expensive.

[Birddog3412]

Its all about opportunities for the animal. My dog won the Arkansas, Michigan championships. A RU Ch in Montana and a classic in Georgia. That ddog would have never had those chances in my hands.

As far as price. Wrong. You are looking at it wrong. If you were to go to all the trials the pro did, it would probably be more expensive.

I understand completely. I have a litter due anyday and hopfully one of them will be good enough that in 3 years it will be ran by a pro.

I think this thread is more about the everyday amatuers that have the time and want to do it all themselves.

[ezzy333]

I think this thread is more about the everyday amatuers that have the time and want to do it all themselves.

Aren't we all everyday amatuers? But the question really is what special feeling to you get when a pup you bought, and was pro trained and campaigned wins? I am sure we all would have some feeling about being able to say that dog is mine, but in actuallity you had nothing to do with the dog doing well other than pay a lot of money? I would think there would be a completely different feeling being able to say I bred, raised, and trained that dog? Or in other words that dog really is mine!!!

I am sure everyone has different things that excite them.

Ezzy

[Firemedic]

I think this thread is more about the everyday amatuers that have the time and want to do it all themselves.

Aren't we all everyday amatuers? But the question really is what special feeling to you get when a pup you bought, and was pro trained and campaigned wins? I am sure we all would have some feeling about being able to say that dog is mine, but in actuallity you had nothing to do with the dog doing well other than pay a lot of money? I would think there would be a completely different feeling being able to say I bred, raised, and trained that dog? Or in other words that dog really is mine!!!

I am sure everyone has different things that excite them.

Ezzy

I agree 99%. But that other 1% goes to someone who may be handicapped, too old, or doesn't have the means to make it to a long distance trial. If for some reason I do not get my requested vaca time for the trial of champions this year, I will have no problem sending the dog with my pro trainer. However, I enjoy training and trialing my own dogs, from their first pigeon, to their last placement.

Your mileage will vary......

[GUNDOGS]

I think this thread is more about the everyday amatuers that have the time and want to do it all themselves.

Aren't we all everyday amatuers? But the question really is what special feeling to you get when a pup you bought, and was pro trained and campaigned wins? I am sure we all would have some feeling about being able to say that dog is mine, but in actuallity you had nothing to do with the dog doing well other than pay a lot of money? I would think there would be a completely different feeling being able to say I bred, raised, and trained that dog? Or in other words that dog really is mine!!!

I am sure everyone has different things that excite them.

Ezzy

+1..i think the best part of owning bird dogs is learning from them..seeing them do what they have been bred to do for ages..definitely training IS a necessity but the reward of doing it yourself is seeing what you have learned from your dog and what your dog has learned from you and watching it all come together when you are out together on birds..im not totally opposed to a trainer, especially for freshening up..i think it is definitely an individual decision with alot of variables..jmo..ruth

[twofeathers]

CONGRADULATIONS LARUE.....

To everyone else....

Sorry, maybe I'm too poor to comment. I think Ezzy actually brings up a good point............ Ha Ha point...

Before I comment, I am younger than most only 32. Started my family at 17 been around hunting dogs since diapers. I have been reading some of the "hotter "posts lately not wanting to comment because it was a trap full of anger, but I feel after reading this, I get more of an understanding of what an underlying problem may be for the average Joe.

If... I were in better means money wise I would qiut working... I can not. (maybe with the powerball ticket I just bought )

If.. I were to quit working, what would I want to do? I can tell you Dogs would be right up there.......after some needed time vacationing with my lovely wife.

Trials and showing could easily be a fair way of life for me, also hunting abroad.. and i digress others....

I guess what I'm saying is some of the "two way street" on here is due to whats going on at the point in your life you are at.

Perhaps this, is what the big holding back bar is for most.. how could I, a week to week happily surviving american, compete with someone who has the means to "blow" "I only say this because you must remeber what it is like to live within smaller means" that kind of time & money and effort to promote something that doesn't curl up at my feet every night and try to give me kisses. To me and I realize it's my own opinion its like bragging about my cousin who won Mrs. Iowa pagent last year.... and I get to see her at X-mas thats it. I am not trying to down grade those who can, actually I am a bit jealous, but to you.... Larue.. I say CONGRADULATIONS what you were able to accomplish with that dog will be with you the rest of your life ..even more so for NOT sending him to a pro. I truely envy your accomplishments and could only hope to be as succsesful. In fact I would love the opportuninty to own one of your dogs because I can tell they were raised with the one thing no trainer can garuntee....LOVE

I realize this post went askew but just finished reading other topics I sooooo wanted to comment on but felt it was meaningless.....


Wes

[kensfishing]

There are alot of Amt. out there that have great dogs with no pros help. That's a fact. Most of them are retired and have a great deal of money to play the game. That's great also, but there are a few that don't have the resources to play every weekend at a big trial and win. I'm one of them. I do more judging anymore. More than I want to, but it gives me the chance to watch some really super great dogs. I mean some really great ones. I also have had the chance to finish a dog on both sides without a pro. I've tried two of them and it was a bust. Several said no way it could be done. They were wrong. Big time. My dogs are hunting dogs first and foremost, we trial to keep them sharp. We just went to a Tower shoot. My dog had 21 broke retieves, his son had 16. They had a blast. It really feels good when these guys tell you, I've never watched a dog with such manners and the love to hunt birds in any conditions. If you have the know how or the love to try and do it. More power to you. There are alot of dogs out there that have a FC title on them, but never get the AFC, pros can't do that. Do it youself and love it, no matter what the outcome.

[ultracarry]

I think its kind of funny how people look at others situations as if they are lucky or fortunate to be able to afford sending their dog to a pro. I'm not lucky or fortunate to have a little bit of extra money at the end of the month to send my dog to a pro but I work my "bleep" off. I work on days off to send my dog with a pro because I don't want my dog to be punished and kenneled for 24 hours while I'm at work on the days I'm working.

I pay to have someone keep my dog exercised and on birds but she knows dam well when her dad shows up and will go arse over elbows for me. At this point I don't have time to work her 5 days a week like SHE should. I worked with the pro for over a month and had his trainer give him a reference before I would hand my dog to him.

Maybe it is how I grew up but you have to make sacrifices in life sometimes to do the right thing. I'm sure my dog would get a FC AFC with me handling her but if I keep her in a kennel all day when I'm at work and sleeping I won't see my dog at all on those days she could be working and training. Why not sacrifice and keep her happy and send her to a pro who can give her what she needs.

When trial season is over she will be picked up when I get off work on my Friday and returned the day before I go back to work.

To say it must be nice to have money to send a dog to a trainer is BS. Some of us do it for the dog even if we have to work more hours or pick up side work.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Pros are expensive but in the long run can be cheaper then doing it yourself when you consider traveling,horses,hotels,eating out, there is alot more to it then just entering fees & running.Especialy when the closest trial is 200 miles.

[kensfishing]

I think its kind of funny how people look at others situations as if they are lucky or fortunate to be able to afford sending their dog to a pro. I'm not lucky or fortunate to have a little bit of extra money at the end of the month to send my dog to a pro but I work my "bleep" off. I work on days off to send my dog with a pro because I don't want my dog to be punished and kenneled for 24 hours while I'm at work on the days I'm working.

I pay to have someone keep my dog exercised and on birds but she knows dam well when her dad shows up and will go arse over elbows for me. At this point I don't have time to work her 5 days a week like SHE should. I worked with the pro for over a month and had his trainer give him a reference before I would hand my dog to him.

Maybe it is how I grew up but you have to make sacrifices in life sometimes to do the right thing. I'm sure my dog would get a FC AFC with me handling her but if I keep her in a kennel all day when I'm at work and sleeping I won't see my dog at all on those days she could be working and training. Why not sacrifice and keep her happy and send her to a pro who can give her what she needs.

When trial season is over she will be picked up when I get off work on my Friday and returned the day before I go back to work.

To say it must be nice to have money to send a dog to a trainer is BS. Some of us do it for the dog even if we have to work more hours or pick up side work.

I'm glad you have the money to keep a dog with a trainer, not everyone can do that. I can't that's for sure. But there's here's an eye opener for you people to pay. Your dogs do not get worked every day or trained every day. They don't get exercised every day. Pros don't have enough time to work every dog. If you beleive that, well I'm sorry, we've got some ocean side land for you cheap. I've worked with pros and aot of them in the past years. They also have a life to live.

[birddogger]

Give me the memories and rewards of doing it myself!!

Charlie

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Ken pros do have a life to live but you work for a living & trial to don't you?
A pros job is working the dogs & trialing them he don't do it 24 hrs a day just like you don't work 24 hrs a day but the pros or atleast the good ones spend a lot more hrs working dogs then most do on their jobs.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Charlie I have plenty of dogs to work & hunt,if I only had one dog sure,plus I never had a trial dog untill I was too broke down to get on & off a horse 4 or 5 times in a 1/2 hr stake,sorry can't do it.
I would never buy a dog to trial ,I breed my own dogs but see nothing wrong if some one else chooses to do so.

[kensfishing]

My dogs get worked every day or have some or alot of contack with me. I mean alot. It really doesn't take much time to get results with well bred dogs. And right now I'm unemployed, so I really get great time to play with my dogs. My major job in Az. was a fishing guide. So when not fishing I was hunting or training dogs. Raised all my own birds and had a blast. Yes I did work, but my dogs still got worked. Some days it was very early in Az. the heat is something else, but we did it. I did and still road eight dogs at a time. Early mornings and evenings. It is work I love to do. But no pro will ever train or attemp to train one of my dogs again. There is nothing and I mean nothing they can teach my dogs that I can't.

[birddogger]

Charlie I have plenty of dogs to work & hunt,if I only had one dog sure,plus I never had a trial dog untill I was too broke down to get on & off a horse 4 or 5 times in a 1/2 hr stake,sorry can't do it.
I would never buy a dog to trial ,I breed my own dogs but see nothing wrong if some one else chooses to do so.

I don't either Ted, I was speaking only for myself. I have no problem with how others choose to enjoy their dogs or hobbies.

Charlie

[ultracarry]

It's funny you know my dog doesn't get worked with every day. The greatest part about the trainer she is with was I worked with him for over a month. I seen how he worked with dogs and how he reads them. To say he doesn't work with my dog as much as I think is crap. She gets worked once to three times a day. From roading when the sun comes up to bird work in the afternoon and roading with his house dogs in the evening.

I have had a bad experience with a "pro" trainer before. That's why I did so much research on this one. If you are unemployed its by choice you will always have an opportunity to work you just have to try to find it. now if you are retired thats also a choice. and believe me there is always a trainer that can teach your dog something you cant that's a fact.

[kensfishing]

It's funny you know my dog doesn't get worked with every day. The greatest part about the trainer she is with was I worked with him for over a month. I seen how he worked with dogs and how he reads them. To say he doesn't work with my dog as much as I think is crap. She gets worked once to three times a day. From roading when the sun comes up to bird work in the afternoon and roading with his house dogs in the evening.

I have had a bad experience with a "pro" trainer before. That's why I did so much research on this one. If you are unemployed its by choice you will always have an opportunity to work you just have to try to find it. now if you are retired thats also a choice. and believe me there is always a trainer that can teach your dog something you cant that's a fact.

Pro trainers are salesmen or saleswomen. That's a fact. If they're working your dog three times a day, then they must not have very many dogs to work. As far as being unemployed it's being someplace where enployment isn't very good. A family issue, not mine. I'd rather be back in Az. making a living fishing again. When you've ice on the water for six months of the year and farmers won't pay anything for guides of any sort, well it is what it is. But I will retire this year. But for trainers again they are sales people. They tell what you want to hear. Glad you eyes 24/ 7 on what's happening with you dog. I'm sure there are trainers that can teach my dogs something I can't just haven't found one that I trust.