What does the tail say??

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:46 am

So its pouring the rain here today, and I have been going around the internet looking at things, and doing alot of reading and thinking. Here is what I would like to know, on what everyone thinks or feels.

When a pointing dog is doing things in general, working, training, whatever..........what does the tail say to you, while you are doing things?

Could you give us brief description of what you noticed, or what "caused" to notice the thing you are describing, or the feeling you get, when telling the situation. I would like the opinions on all situations. Everything, positive or negative.........happens for a reason...whats the tails reason for, acting great..... or funky...what do you think? You are welcome to include pictures, or whatever, to help describe what you are describing. I would think that this could be a great topic for everyone to learn about dogs on. The tail actions will tell you a whole lot, if ya listen to it. Agree? Thanks Jonesy

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:54 am

Im not trying to be a philosipher here but I think a dogs tail is compareable to our smile. If a dog is happy then his tail is up wagging, or between his legs you know he is scared or nervous. Is this what you mean??

I just got a new pup yesterday (8 months old), I actually whelped his daddy and still own his grandma. At the kennel I picked him up at he was comfortable and loud tail up and wagging. Now that I have him home he is adjusting, tail down, timid, hes not really sure of thing yet.

JMc · Post by **JMc** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:08 am

Simple...
I'm with my best buddy hunting or playing...tail is going like crazy,
I'm on point waiting for my buddy to shoot...tail is straight up,
I'm retrieving the bird my buddy just shot...who knows what the tail is doing,
I'm not happy with my buddy for locking me in the kennel...tail is resting!

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:35 am

So many things a tail can tell. But you have to look at the rest of the body for the true tale of the tail

On Point the tail up and flagging tight one of the biggest ones I see here is a handler who has spend so much on getting the dog to point and the dogs mind really wants to chase but knows he has to stand still on that bird so the tail is letting you know the mind is in full gear to chase.
A loose low flagging tail here again this dog not as high drive but OK there is your bird are you happy lets get this over with

In yard work a down tail even slightly tucked is a dog still in I am not buying into this and as they figure out they aren't getting beat up or getting over their resistance the tail will come up

Another one I see is a dog on point they are staunch until the handler comes up then as the handler gets closer to the bird the dog begins to flag feet are still but this is letting me know that the dog is already prepared to break point for the retrieve as that is what the handler has done shot every bird for that dog he used to jabber a lot to the dog also coming in telling the dog to whoa when the dog was standing there all along

Another one I have seen a dog nice on point or worse on a back then as the handler comes in the tail starts to drop and same with the shoulders on the back the dog would drop to the ground on point would get in to a bad crouch..this dog was jerked up shaken around slammed back on the ground when it would take steps but as a young dog now matter how long it took the handler to get there it was picked up shaken around and slammed back down so this dog only associates the handler with getting whisked up shaken and slammed back down oh and lets not forget the being yelled at :roll:

that is a few things I can think off off the bat

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:50 am

Jonesy,
In the written word I have a propensity to be shall we say; rather verbiose? Frankly, I couldn't put my thoughts on this subject in a bucket without a bottom, if I were to generalize it I would apply the words trust and confidence. I try to achieve the natural tail carriage I see in a dog early on in the finished product. If genetically pre-dispoed to a crackin, high tail carriage in the vim and vigor of unfettered puppyhood we should see the same charateristic in a mature dog that is trusting in you and confident on birds as an adult. Further, that tail carriage is a barometer in the training process, it is one of the factors that tells me when I can move forward.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:37 am

These are all great replies, makes it a better rain day now!!

K9 I really liked this....alnog with others replies also, this is one that really sticks out.......

Another one I have seen a dog nice on point or worse on a back then as the handler comes in the tail starts to drop and same with the shoulders on the back the dog would drop to the ground on point

I sorta wonder somethimes when watching people that come to work, or dogs I watch in the trials.....does it come from the work, and its pressure, or the handler and its pressure....Either way, whatever answer, it still shows for a reason. these are again great replies. Thanks Jonesy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:41 am

I would have to say more the handler and the pressure is the key point. That one dog you could jst see it in the eyes and the body as the handler approached " Oh man here he comes I am going to be jerked up and like most animals they move away from pressure so dog is thinking no longer about the bird but being jerked up and down he goes...on the backs all the way down but you could see the bird scent having some influence and not going down as far but still going down.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:37 pm

Photo evidence is hard to come by when you are an amateur but I looked back for a few to try and illustrate my thoughts, below are some views of tail and body language for a few stages of training in a young dog. In the first we see a 16 week old puppy with good genetics and a lot of point...If I do my job right we keep or enhance that later on...

In the next we see a 9 month old dog that I feel I may have been pushing a bit too fast...it isn't awful, but the tail is lower, the body is unsure and he has taken a step and is telling me that my presence means he is going to take a bird, in this moment I was really wishing I had a checkcord rather than an e-collar.

In this poor quality picture we see an 11 month old dog pointing singles from a broken covey. He is not yet sure he wants to remain steady his tail and his body look like a launching pad.

At 18 months old here are pictures where confidence and style is beginning to show in the first one and in the second taken on the same day, the effect of heat and over training.

In this picture I illustrate the same dog at 2 years old pointing quail in a bush, he hasn't been styled or touched and he has been walked around for a period of time getting his picture taken, he is confident and steady

And lastly, a training pic with a bird that is pointed and then purposely rooted and walked around the dog to generalize him occasionally one of these is killed for him to keep his confidence and interest up.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:45 pm

I have one dog that sometimes seems to be flagging on point. When he does this, I know that he is not quite sure of where the bird is yet. When he is sure he has the bird nailed, he becomes solid as a statue. When his tail is moving, I know not to walk in yet. He will relocate and/or become staunch, then I say "now he has him"!

Charlie

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:56 pm

A tail can say...the years add up.

I've seen a setter tail drop lower and lower when on point as the dog aged.
One could still see the intensity and desire but photos of youth and age would illustrate a profound change in carriage.

ISAYWHOANOW · Post by **ISAYWHOANOW** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:05 pm

The tail says a lot like teaching children. But remember its the wrong end of the student to look at....

But heck what do I know?

Ryan.

Its a team deal.... Go to the ames site.. tail does'nt mean anything. its an internet thing. how about the nose?? eayyyyyy...

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:40 pm

Chuckar12 lil brit has a good look to it. Dont you make me wanna have short tailed dogs now!! I have a lil something in the works, but we wont talk about that now.
I like yours and Charlie's post alot.....they are sticking out my head. I really am glad to see that people think about the dogs and the actions from them. I am glad I started this topic, and several have chimed in on it. I think it is really turning out nice. Thanks Jonesy

fuzznut · Post by **fuzznut** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:27 pm

I think a dogs tail is a window on it's mind.
But it's all according to where it is, what it's doing, and who is looking at it.

In the bird dog world , a straight up tail is a sign of confidence.
In the rest of the dog world, a straight up tail is a sign of dominance, confidence and possible trouble.

In the bird dog world, a flagging tail is a sign of a dog who has been domineered.
In the rest of the dog world, a flagging tail, or a tail up in the air and waving slowly back and forth is a sign of confusion. I might be friendly, I might fight.

In the bird dog world, a level flat tail is not wanted.
In the rest of the dog world a level flat tail tell us the dog is comfortable in it's surroundings and all is right in it's world.

Dogs do use their tails to tell the world around them where they are, and how they feel. It's up to us to learn to figure out what it is they are telling us.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:07 pm

Here is one that I haven't seen mentioned.A dog that has been hunting with a high tail & normally carries it high,his tail is starting to drop means he is tiring & time to put him up for a rest.
In cold temps can also mean they are feeling it.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:17 pm

by Vonzeppelinkennels » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:07 pm

Here is one that I haven't seen mentioned.A dog that has been hunting with a high tail & normally carries it high,his tail is starting to drop means he is tiring & time to put him up for a rest

I tried to illustrate that on the two pictures in the same day, kinda tough with the stub tail...in the first the dog is staunch and his tail is high...in the second though it is hard to see in the angle the tail is drooping several degrees lower. He was clearly saying it is time to quit...

hosejockey2935 · Post by **hosejockey2935** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:07 am

JMc wrote:Simple...
I'm with my best buddy hunting or playing...tail is going like crazy,
I'm on point waiting for my buddy to shoot...tail is straight up,
I'm retrieving the bird my buddy just shot...who knows what the tail is doing,
I'm not happy with my buddy for locking me in the kennel...tail is resting!

Maybe its a difference in breeds...
I'm with my best buddy hunting or playing...tail is going like crazy, side to side
I'm on point waiting for my buddy to shoot...tail is going like crazy, tiny, tiny circles
I'm retrieving the bird my buddy just shot...tail is going like crazy
I'm not happy with my buddy for locking me in the kennel...tail is going crazy

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