NFC/FC Leighton's Ace Mona some additional info, pic & links

[GrayDawg]

Leighton's Ace Mona was the dam of Leipchen but I believe the Hermans owned her,I think Husser handled her though.

The above quote came from the thread on the 2011 National Bird Dog Championship. I didn't want to hijack that thread any further
than it had been detoured, so I figured it'd be best to just start a new thread where folks could discuss Mona specifically......

Here's a couple links to threads regarding NFC/FC Leighton's Mona Ace, a dog I was trying to get some information on a while back:

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=24019

http://web.whc.net/shorthairs/GSPForum/ ... fault.aspx

http://www.modernsportsman.com/cgi-bin/ ... 1276954050

Here's a picture of Mona:



Something to consider- Mona produced Rusty and Buddendorf from being bred to two different Sires. Rusty gets alot of credit for producing great dogs, I think alot of the credit belongs to his dam.

Hence my quest for a Mona linebred pup. But I do realize this desire is a longshot at best. So I'm willing to take a long, hard look at a Windwalkers Desperado or even a Dixieland's Luke linebred pup. A Buddendorf linebred pup would be the next best thing to a Mona linebred pup, imho. But that's almost as much of a longshot as getting a Mona linebred pup.

Rob

[Cajun Casey]

A Luke based breeding was the first widely publicized to produce lupoid pups. One thing for consideration.

Also, in my experience, the more Luke, the sharper the personality, especially when combined with Koonass. Just my experience.

[Fieldmaster]

John Steger
Direct Kennels
5742 S. 350 E.
Knox Indiana 46534
(574)772-2417 or (219)629-0893 (c)
www.directkennels.com

[bhulisa]

Hi Rob, have you tried looking for something with MRKS Western Pride, or one of his siblings, they were a half brother/half sister breeding on Mona.

Might be worth asking Charlie Rose (Wildrose GSPs) what he knows, he has Western Pride, and of course lots of Rusty breeding behind his stock.

Trudi

[Joe Amatulli]

I laugh at some of these postings, do you guys understand how diluted and irrelevant those genes are today? There is no going back to that and quite frankly why on earth would you want to.

[GrayDawg]

Joe,
No need to laugh.......... I said up front that I knew getting anything linebred on Mona was a longshot
at best. The fact that she was a female only makes it tougher!

I'm not ready to call the genes of the dog who produced Rusty "irrelevant" just yet. One should always remember
the past when planning for the future. Diluted, no question about that......... but in terms of getting another Mona,
if someone told you today that they had Mona DNA and they could/would clone her for free, are you saying you'd
pass on her?

On another note- how's your arm doing? I hope you're all healed up and ready to go this spring. You have one helluva string
of dogs and it would be nice to run into you at Flaherty at some point.

Take Care,

Rob

[Joe Amatulli]

Rob, quite frankly I have no idea who or what Mona was. I can tell you what I have been told by people that were around than, and just keep in mind that most have already passed on. I’ve seen a lot of dogs in my day and there are some that I liked a lot and some not so much. I owned a dog out of Koonas that I never bred because I was afraid of getting another one like her. She was great dog on the ground, but not a bird dog, along with some other problems that were quite common amongst Rusty off spring.

The arm is doing fine and will be ready to take on all you young wiper snappers, I’m not ready to give this up yet.

Hopefully you will come down to Region 2 and we will see how good that sting really is.

[GrayDawg]

The arm is doing fine and will be ready to take on all you young wiper snappers, I’m not ready to give this up yet.

Good to hear you're all healed up! I certainly hope you're not considering giving it up......... I love watching your dogs run.

Hopefully you will come down to Region 2 and we will see how good that sting really is.

Not sure about that- I have two things working against me right now:

- A young dog (Derby eligible until 4/29) who is DONE with Derbys & is in the process of getting broke out.
- Two young sons who compete in Tae Kwon Do tournaments on weekends. Flaherty is do-able for me for day trips though.

Figuring that it'll be the middle of April before feeling good about cutting my young dog loose in a broke dog stake.
I'm not one to enter a dog in a stake if I don't feel they can win it- as entry fees are just too expensive these days.

Rob

[ultracarry]

I don't want to cone off sounding like I know anything about breeding because I don't. But I can grantee if you talk to a man by the name of Larry lowell on this forum he can just about answer any and all questions. If you want a dog believe me he is the man to talk to. He breeds dogs for hunters first but if you want a dog that will be great in trials I don't think you will have a problem.

His dog NEO is one nice looking dog that's known to throw some great dogs.

And if you were wondering he had nothing to do with my dogs breeding. But in another 2-3 years ill be looking at NEO to breed my dog back to.

[Fieldmaster]

If Rusty was indeed a carrier of Lupoid. Who's to say that it wasn't Mona who the carrier in that equation. Don't know and that breeding is long gone but one thing is for sure If Rusty was carrier of Lupoid then his Sire or Dam had to be a carrier.

Robert

[Cajun Casey]

If Rusty was indeed a carrier of Lupoid. Who's to say that it wasn't Mona who the carrier in that equation. Don't know and that breeding is long gone but one thing is for sure If Rusty was carrier of Lupoid then his Sire or Dam had to be a carrier.

Robert

Oh, please. That makes perfect sense. We can't have that!

[Joe Amatulli]

What makes you so sure that the dam and sire on his pedigree are that or that Rusty was even the sire of all the dogs that he is credited in producing, you need to know what was common practice in those days.

[Fieldmaster]

What makes you so sure that the dam and sire on his pedigree are that or that Rusty was even the sire of all the dogs that he is credited in producing, you need to know what was common practice in those days.

By all means Joe please elaborate

[Cajun Casey]

Start with phenotypical prepotency.

[Johnk]

I believe one of the heavy rusty bred dogs still alive is Pat Waresk's Eddi dog. Pat also has some straws of Gabe that he has not yet decided how to use. He's busy down in Booneville right now but you can look at these pedigrees on his web site. His kennel name is Bustin' Loose Kennels.

[Dave Quindt]

What makes you so sure that the dam and sire on his pedigree are that or that Rusty was even the sire of all the dogs that he is credited in producing, you need to know what was common practice in those days.

Oh Joe, there you go again!

Don't you know that every dog of the past was a perfect angel, and every legendary breeder/trainer/hander of yesteryear should be granted sainthood any year now?

In the internet age, it's easy to breed great dogs. Just dig up pedigrees and mix and match them until you can make pedigrees look like those that produced the supposedly great dogs of the past. All that time that was spent watching dogs in the field, going to summer and winter camps, riding brace after brace of futurities to see what's being produced - that's old timer stuff. If you make great pedigrees, you'll get great dogs - didn't you get the email explaining all of this?

The fact that these great dogs of the past were not the products of intense pedigree study and complex linebreeding strategies, but the result of breeding good dogs to good dogs based not on what folks read on the internet but what folks saw in the field, is now obsolete. "Saddle time" has now been replaced by "Lazy-Boy time" with laptop in hand!

The days of going to trials where cell signal was nonexistent to get the skinny on which dogs were the real deal and which ones were just hype are now over; all you need now is the closest wi-fi hot spot and you can get all the scoop. 'Cause you know; if it's on the internet (or in a pedigree), it must be true!

"Be still and know..." has been replaced by "I heard on Facebook..".

Gotta stop now; getting rather nauseous,

Dave

[kensfishing]

What makes you so sure that the dam and sire on his pedigree are that or that Rusty was even the sire of all the dogs that he is credited in producing, you need to know what was common practice in those days.

Oh Joe, there you go again!

Don't you know that every dog of the past was a perfect angel, and every legendary breeder/trainer/hander of yesteryear should be granted sainthood any year now?

In the internet age, it's easy to breed great dogs. Just dig up pedigrees and mix and match them until you can make pedigrees look like those that produced the supposedly great dogs of the past. All that time that was spent watching dogs in the field, going to summer and winter camps, riding brace after brace of futurities to see what's being produced - that's old timer stuff. If you make great pedigrees, you'll get great dogs - didn't you get the email explaining all of this?

The fact that these great dogs of the past were not the products of intense pedigree study and complex linebreeding strategies, but the result of breeding good dogs to good dogs based not on what folks read on the internet but what folks saw in the field, is now obsolete. "Saddle time" has now been replaced by "Lazy-Boy time" with laptop in hand!

The days of going to trials where cell signal was nonexistent to get the skinny on which dogs were the real deal and which ones were just hype are now over; all you need now is the closest wi-fi hot spot and you can get all the scoop. 'Cause you know; if it's on the internet (or in a pedigree), it must be true!

"Be still and know..." has been replaced by "I heard on Facebook..".

Gotta stop now; getting rather nauseous,

Dave

Hey Dave wish I could be in Booneville to watch Tex again. Of course his uncle Albert wasn't too bad of dog also. I saw some great dogs in Ardmore. You're right saddle time makes all the difference in seeing some really good and great dogs.

[Dave Quindt]

Hey Dave wish I could be in Booneville to watch Tex again. Of course his uncle Albert wasn't too bad of dog also. I saw some great dogs in Ardmore. You're right saddle time makes all the difference in seeing some really good and great dogs.

Saddle time is important, but so is time in camp, especially if you can see dogs being broke out

Tex will be at Pinckneyville for the All Breed (aka, the All German Breed; disclosure for Dr Favor's edification).

Keeping our fingers crossed; thanks for the kind words,
Dave

[kensfishing]

Jack and I just sent the write up to Will about the Quail Championship. He did an outstanding job on the ground. Good luck with him. If you ever get him bred to a super bitch, let me know.

[GrayDawg]

Oh Joe, there you go again!

Don't you know that every dog of the past was a perfect angel, and every legendary breeder/trainer/hander of yesteryear should be granted sainthood any year now?

In the internet age, it's easy to breed great dogs. Just dig up pedigrees and mix and match them until you can make pedigrees look like those that produced the supposedly great dogs of the past. All that time that was spent watching dogs in the field, going to summer and winter camps, riding brace after brace of futurities to see what's being produced - that's old timer stuff. If you make great pedigrees, you'll get great dogs - didn't you get the email explaining all of this?

The fact that these great dogs of the past were not the products of intense pedigree study and complex linebreeding strategies, but the result of breeding good dogs to good dogs based not on what folks read on the internet but what folks saw in the field, is now obsolete. "Saddle time" has now been replaced by "Lazy-Boy time" with laptop in hand!

The days of going to trials where cell signal was nonexistent to get the skinny on which dogs were the real deal and which ones were just hype are now over; all you need now is the closest wi-fi hot spot and you can get all the scoop. 'Cause you know; if it's on the internet (or in a pedigree), it must be true!

"Be still and know..." has been replaced by "I heard on Facebook..".

Gotta stop now; getting rather nauseous,

Dave

Dave,
One of the first trials I ever went to was a trial that Mona was running in and won. I was a 20 year old green horn who had been Grouse/Woodcock hunting since I was 16 or 17 years old. The father of a friend of mine from college was into bird dogs and took us to the trial in question. I didn't own a dog at the time, but I remembered her performance that day and decided to look her up sometime last year to see what I could find. So technically, I have indeed put in some "saddle time" and have actually seen Mona run in a trial- albeit a long time ago. Pedigrees are nice, but they don't speak to a dog's style, sharpness or general personality. The whole lupoid connection mentioned by Cajun Casey is interesting- but unless I had firm objective evidence in my hand confirming such a claim, I'd be very hesitant to post something like that on an internet forum about someone else's dog.

Bottom Line: I don't get excited about any dog unless I've seen them run myself. That, I guess- would be in consistent with your "saddle time" comment.

Rob

[Cajun Casey]

The information on the Luke bred cross that produced LD was documented in an interview Katie Tazzia gave Purina. Louis bred back to his aunt, Cherokee, produced the first widely documented litter.

[Dave Quindt]

Dave,
One of the first trials I ever went to was a trial that Mona was running in and won.

Rob,

Remind me again; what year, what grounds and who was the handler?

Dave

[GrayDawg]

Dave,
One of the first trials I ever went to was a trial that Mona was running in and won.

Rob,

Remind me again; what year, what grounds and who was the handler?

Dave

Off the top of my head, it was 1980 and I believe she was handled by Steger? does this sound right?
The trial was in OK I believe. We were traveling with his dad and we hit Kansas, OK & Missouri in a three week span.
I just sent my friend an email to get the name of the grounds from his dad.

Why do you ask?

[bigoak]

You need to remember that liebchen Buddendorf was out of Savage Sam,That could be where the sharpness came from when doubling up on Luke...vern

[Cajun Casey]

The Pro Club article. Cherokee was sired by a son of Luke out of his own daughter.

http://purinaproclub.com/Dog/ResourceLi ... d2a2fa12f5

[Fieldmaster]

it was 1980 and I believe she was handled by Steger?

Thought you said it was King ? Don't remember the grounds ?

[Dave Quindt]

You need to remember that liebchen Buddendorf was out of Savage Sam,That could be where the sharpness came from when doubling up on Luke...vern

Makes sense, except Brath double and triple bred Sam (Sam son to a Sam daughter, and then took a daughter to a Sam grandson) and insists he never had problems with temperament.

Vern, as I've found out, and you saw first hand, there was a lot of wacky stuff in a lot of the dogs of that era.

FWIW,
Dave

[bigoak]

I won the 1987 Nat Amateur with an Rusty daughter( Bigoaks Irish Mist). I called Ed Husser(Rusty's Handler) hoping he could suggest a stud for her.Ed thought I should breed her to Savage Sam because of the way Liebchen turned out. Sam was a great All Age dog but but with his temperament, I couldn't bring myself to do it....vern

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

My dogs came from Bob Merkel's Wrenegade kennels in 1994 & you know how Bob's dogs were bred.I have never had a dog with a sharp temperament.Infact my old dog Ace out of a Luke daughter I could put with any dog I had male or female & never had to worry about a fight.I kenneled him & a son of his out of bitch that went back to Luke on both sides next to a bitch in heat & never did they fight.Ace was death on Skunks & the bitch was death on cats or skunks but neither were dog fighters.I never have seen the LD skin disease either but know some of the Luke dogs carried it.

I have also heard that Sonny dogs are supposedly sharp tempered,I bred my Wendy who goes back to Luke on both sides & these dogs are the most lovable even temered dogs you will come across.
Star my Sonny & Wendy daughter craves attention from anyone that will give it to her.My trainers wife & just about every other woman that see & meet her is the dog on Chris's string they all favor over all the rest.Chris's wife said when you breed her I want a pup from her just like her,she looks like a lady,she acts like a lady,& she is the most affectionate dog I have seen.
The only time she doesn't act like a lady is when you cut her loose then it's saddle up & move out!!
Oh,she got her wish,she is now the proud owner of a female out of Star's litter.

[ultracarry]

The only reason any dogs in the east coast win anything is because us people in the west coast like competition and run our dogs in the west where we have good weather and less bugs. Lol sorry had to post it.

[GrayDawg]

it was 1980 and I believe she was handled by Steger?

Thought you said it was King ? Don't remember the grounds ?

Robert, it was over 30 years ago, I didn't realize at the time I was going to be quizzed on it some 30 years
later. :roll: We were between tri-mesters at school and my parents let me go down to southwest Missouri
with my roomate's family for the 4 weeks we were off. My roomate & I spent 3 of those weeks traveling with his dad to trials.

I had no idea what was going on in terms of the trial. What I did know was how to ride, as I grew up riding english & jumping.
So not only did I not know who the handler of Mona was at the time, I didn't think to ask nor did I really care. But the name
Leighton's Ace Mona stuck in my head...... I mean- how many dog's in your life can you recall who were named "Mona"?

As for the grounds, my friend and I were traveling in a camper (alot of times, at night) and we were pulling into wide open, beautiful
parcels of property that looked nothing like the tight, cramped acreage this northeasterner had experienced up to that point in my
life. The names of the grounds weren't as important as the names of the young ladies we were chasin'........

That's it- I'm out......... I didn't intend to ruffle anyone's feathers with this thread.

Rob

[Fieldmaster]

That's it- I'm out......... I didn't intend to ruffle anyone's feathers with this thread

Rob,
You didn't ruffle any feathers here. Best of luck I hope you find what you are looking for.

Robert

[Joe Amatulli]

I can’t believe that all those hours in the saddle watching young dogs, all those sores on my butt, all those conversations I’ve had with the older timers (note older) were for not, all I had to do was get on line and I would have learned just as much if not more. That’s it for now on all my field trialing is going to be done from the comfort of my office.

Good luck to you David at Boonville and the All Breed, wish I was there.

Rob chill out man no ruffled feathers hear.

[DGFavor]

Tex will be at Pinckneyville for the All Breed (aka, the All German Breed; disclosure for Dr Favor's edification).

Dangit, cut off at the pass...must be getting to predictable. Gonna work on coming up with some new material...

Robert, it was over 30 years ago, I didn't realize at the time I was going to be quizzed on it some 30 years
later.

Life is a comprehensive exam...not just the stuff we went over this semester!!

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

A life long exam! That's fine untill your brain short circuts & you can't even remember today let alone this SEMESTER!!
I don't WISH it on anyone.

[Cajun Casey]

There will be math.

[markj]

I believe one of the heavy rusty bred dogs still alive is Pat Waresk's Eddi dog.

I have a female out of Pats kennel, ped is in my sig. I also know of a male is a FC that is breeding his kennel is by raymond ne, a litter mate to my female.

She is a sweety, not a bad bone in her body. Loves kids and everyone she meets. She wont poop in her kennel so she needs to run daily. She will find every bird in a field, retrieves and is an all around great pet and hunting companion. I get kisses from her I bred her to a dog Pat had, he had her for awhile for that. He has a female from that breeeding too but I dont know how she is doing.

Genes dont wash out completly, the pups she throws carry her traits. The cat tail (stright up) saddle markings, head shape etc. I saw a litter at pheasant fest from a female out of the breeding I did with Pat, pups were just like their grandma, I noticed it imediatly. One had same markings as my dog.