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whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:28 am
by sjkennels
i have been doing a little research and cant find anything on how to build a whoa bench,whoa barrel,whoa post anyone have any pictures and/or directions on how to build them? i have tried to build a whoa barrel and have been told that they have seen better scaffolding in Jamaica so go easy with the difficulty of them please
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:33 am
by topher40
Use the tailgate of your pickup, it works fine. Then you dont have to worry about building anything and can take it with you wherever you go.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:35 am
by Cajun Casey
Just get a barrel rack. Table can be a 1x12 c-clamped to two sawhorses. Pickup tailgates and cable spools work, too.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:46 am
by kninebirddog
The bench is more important about an area which fits YOU working on a dog if it is to high your arms are to high up to low and it makes you bend over to much
The whoa post if you are going to use A method like the Rick Smith method a heavy duty stake about 18=24 inches long pounded into the ground at least half way ..then you want to good check cords...again if you want to do the Rick Smith method then you need to follow their steps of conditions Points of Contact as that is what the post is for teaching a point of contact which means stand still not in the real sense teaching whoa, as you learn there is a BIG Difference
A barrel get a barrel lay it on the side get a couple wood boards to prevent the barrel from rolling away have one side where you can move board so you can bump the barrel to get dog to stand by balancing better
Key point when starting out Pick A Method and when you figure out that method and begin to read the dogs as to when they are learning and buying in to the method so to speak don't mix and match as it will only confuse you and worse will make the dog more confused at the inconstancy. Once you have something down then you will see where something from a different method may help get the lines of communication open between you and the dog you are working with
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:32 pm
by sjkennels
i am going to try the ferrel miller common sense bird dog training dvd and it says that it uses all three. i got my whoa barrel done a little while ago not the best in the world but the total cost of everything was 4.50 and thats what the barrel cost me i had all the extra wood nails.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:27 pm
by Cajun Casey
Did you double check that the dog's rear feet are on the ground if he goes off?
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:35 pm
by volraider
Just skip a few steps and teach it on the ground. Why teach it on a board, barrell, and post then have to do it all over again on the ground. Another thing just teach it on the ground in the bird fields but not on birds, that will cut out a few more steps.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:31 pm
by birddog1968
SJ, FM's video is a good one , but i don't think he necessarily meant you had to use all three.....
He mentions you can use the barrel as another tool. That said there is nothing wrong with going from the board to the barrel. The Whoa post is the part where the force is applied and as you know is done on the ground.
FM's video is more a guideline than a strict method.....I kinda wish he had of been more regimented in the way he showed the methods but its a good guide on how you can make a good dog.
VolR- I take it you don't have 1000 field trial placements yet
There's more than one road to China. Not a thing wrong with having more than one tool/technique in the tool bag.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:29 pm
by sjkennels
i whoa broke my short hair using the ps/pf method that uses only a cc and choke chain. i will need the barrel for training to steady to wing and shot no matter what. and yea i checked and made sure she can touch the ground with out killing herself.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:38 pm
by Cajun Casey
sjkennels wrote:i whoa broke my short hair using the ps/pf method that uses only a cc and choke chain. i will need the barrel for training to steady to wing and shot no matter what. and yea i checked and made sure she can touch the ground with out killing herself.
The picture wouldn't enlarge for me, so I couldn't see how long the tie up was. We don't hook them up on barrels, but do on the breaking table. Casey is long and tall enough, he can just bail off and stand there looking like he's going to order a drink or something.
Can you do a side view next time you have her up?
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:30 pm
by sjkennels
i can put one up now
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:35 pm
by sjkennels
Cajun Casey wrote:sjkennels wrote:i whoa broke my short hair using the ps/pf method that uses only a cc and choke chain. i will need the barrel for training to steady to wing and shot no matter what. and yea i checked and made sure she can touch the ground with out killing herself.
The picture wouldn't enlarge for me, so I couldn't see how long the tie up was. We don't hook them up on barrels, but do on the breaking table. Casey is long and tall enough, he can just bail off and stand there looking like he's going to order a drink or something.
Can you do a side view next time you have her up?
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:36 pm
by Cajun Casey
sjkennels wrote:i can put one up now
Okay. I'm more interested in the posture than the set up. I like to see how dogs use their muscles.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:40 pm
by sjkennels
ahh ok next time i have her up and working with her i will take another pic i just threw her up there to make sure it wouldn't fall apart or something stupid would happen to it. i will have one up friday or saturday for ya
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:44 pm
by Cajun Casey
Cool. Are you going to forcebreak the dog? If so, are you going to a table for that?
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:42 pm
by sjkennels
yea i am going to FF her after i get her broke. i am planning on getting her a MH title and she is the only gsp that i have ever seen that doesn't retrieve naturally
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:00 am
by Cajun Casey
Slick bred?
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:03 am
by sjkennels
nope gun dog bred i have no idea who is in her pedigree never sent in her papers. i know her dam was a sh. but everybody that i have hunted with her has always commented on her.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:16 am
by birddogger
sjkennels wrote:yea i am going to FF her after i get her broke. i am planning on getting her a MH title and she is the only gsp that i have ever seen that doesn't retrieve naturally
I have a Shooting Starr GSP that has zero natural retrieve. I had to FF him. He is a really good dog, but just wouldn't retrieve until FF.
Charlie
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:49 pm
by prairiefirepointers
Here is a pic of mine that I built a couple years ago.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:41 pm
by sjkennels
do you have any front and back pictures? if you do i would like to see them that looks alot better then mine
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:50 pm
by RoostersMom
I've used Jon and Cindy's method from PF/PF on 3 of our dogs and before I met them, I used the whoa post method. All four dogs are broke so I've decided to go with their method from now on as it is much more positive for the dog (IMO). I do use a table for the FF when needed (my Vizsla did not need FF, but the pointers and chessie benefited from it).
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:02 pm
by prairiefirepointers
sjkennels wrote:do you have any front and back pictures? if you do i would like to see them that looks alot better then mine
If can email some pics and measurements to you if you'd like. If so, PM me.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:11 pm
by steamer
can someone explain what you do with the bench barrel and post what are you teaching and that type of stuff would be great thanks for the info
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:34 pm
by birddog1968
The bench (narrow board) and barrel begin to teach the dog to stand (whoa) and allow the trainer to work comfortably and have the dog get used to being styled and have hands laid on him while he's standing. The post is where the the whoa command is forced.
SJ , this is just my opinion personally, but i would rather have the dog be able to hang himself if he jumps from the barrel or the board.....the discomfort of having tried to escape what is being taught will stick in the dogs mind more (IMO) than if he can jump off and just stand there on the ground. It allows the bad experience to teach him rather than the trainer.
Reminds me of the other day (case and point) , I was riding my pup thru the local wildlife refuge, in the truck. She got a little crazy when some geese and ducks flushed close to the edge of the road. She jammed her head out the window in a rambunctious manner (i had been trying to get her to stop this previous). When she got her head and one paw out the window the other paw stepped on the window up button choking her (slightly) with the window. I said nothing, let her squirm a few seconds then pulled her paw off the button so i could hit the down button on my side. Now she sits on the seat and looks out the window and has 0 interest in jamming her head out the slightly open window. All taught by herself without any negative association with me. Same concept as letting the dog hang themselves a bit before being placed back on the board or barrel.
I believe Delmar also has a couple pictures of this in his book by Bill Tarrent, the dog trying to escape the FF table.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:50 pm
by tommyboy72
Sounds logical to me.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:31 am
by sjkennels
steamer wrote:can someone explain what you do with the bench barrel and post what are you teaching and that type of stuff would be great thanks for the info
barrel will help with teaching the dog whoa and to be steady to wing and shot and stand walking birds.
Re: whoa bench and whoa barrel,whoa post how to build them?
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:40 am
by sjkennels
birddog1968 wrote:The bench (narrow board) and barrel begin to teach the dog to stand (whoa) and allow the trainer to work comfortably and have the dog get used to being styled and have hands laid on him while he's standing. The post is where the the whoa command is forced.
SJ , this is just my opinion personally, but i would rather have the dog be able to hang himself if he jumps from the barrel or the board.....the discomfort of having tried to escape what is being taught will stick in the dogs mind more (IMO) than if he can jump off and just stand there on the ground. It allows the bad experience to teach him rather than the trainer.
Reminds me of the other day (case and point) , I was riding my pup thru the local wildlife refuge, in the truck. She got a little crazy when some geese and ducks flushed close to the edge of the road. She jammed her head out the window in a rambunctious manner (i had been trying to get her to stop this previous). When she got her head and one paw out the window the other paw stepped on the window up button choking her (slightly) with the window. I said nothing, let her squirm a few seconds then pulled her paw off the button so i could hit the down button on my side. Now she sits on the seat and looks out the window and has 0 interest in jamming her head out the slightly open window. All taught by herself without any negative association with me. Same concept as letting the dog hang themselves a bit before being placed back on the board or barrel.
I believe Delmar also has a couple pictures of this in his book by Bill Tarrent, the dog trying to escape the FF table.
thanks for your advice 68 you made a good point. my gsp has only been on the barrel once and wont move or try and get down when i say whoa so i am just going to use it for steady to wing and shot and standing walking birds when i get my pigeons in a couple of weeks.