Gun Dog Forum

I almost cringe at asking for people's opinion regarding field trials on this forum, however I'll give it a shot (luckily I am not concerned about dog food or breeding paper pedigrees).

I am going to enter my shorthair in a walking field trial later this spring (no horseback handling in any stake) and cannot decide what stake to enter him in. It will be his first field trial and he will miss the derby by four days. Is there that big of a difference between open and amateur? Do I have anything to gain by entering him in amateur? Is there that big of a difference between the two in a walking trial? I am more concerned about good competition, than winning or acquiring any kind of points.

Thanks for the help.

If the dog is broke to wing and shot, enter him in both open and amateur gundog stakes. Both you and the dog probably need the experience. If the dog isn't broke to the point where you feel comfortable running him under judgment, do yourself and the dog a favor, don't run the trial but go there to watch and help. Don't run the dog just to run him, if you feel he isn't reliably broke, as it just gives him an opportunity to screw up without you being able to make a correction.

Amateur placements go towards your AFC title, and points earned by winning amateur stakes can also be applied to your FC title as well.

The only difference between open and amateur at this level is that open stakes are open to both pros and amateurs. At a walking trial, you most likely will see few if any pros attending.

Any other questions?

FWIW,
Dave

DITTO 100%

Dave,

Thanks for the response. I am not going to run unless his master hunter is finished, at which point I am hoping I have solved any lingering demons.

cmc274 wrote:Dave,

Thanks for the response. I am not going to run unless his master hunter is finished, at which point I am hoping I have solved any lingering demons.

If he's broke for a master, he should be okay in either an amt. or open trial. And Dave is right shouldn't be too many pros. there. Go have fun and forget what anyone says about what people think about field trials.

At a walking trial, you most likely will see few if any pros attending.

really? that's good to know......

AF walking stakes and NSTRA trials have a lot of pro participation.

How far does your dog range if you don't blow on a wistle or call him back?

How far does your dog range if you don't blow on a wistle or call him back?

you think Lucy runs to big for a walking stake?

She runs at about the limit lol.

Cajun Casey wrote:AF walking stakes and NSTRA trials have a lot of pro participation.

AF and NSTRA is a whole different venue. Pros don't make a living walking. Besides just because they are called pros, doesn't make them unbeatable. I've beat way too many them.

Whole hearted agreement. Run your dog in both open and Am. stakes. Good experience for the dog and for you.
Which trial are you thinking of attending?

It all depends on what other events are that weekend or the weekend before and after. If there is a horse trial the week before you can expect a pro or two because ita cheaper then driving 8 hours to the other trial. But again who cares. I enter my dog in anything and everything. She will be in AA, OGD, OLGD, and AGD next weekend. And she is 15 months.

If you are gaining experience its going to help your dog. So instead of in a hunt test where you would do something a certain way you will learn how do do it in a field trial. The good thing about being in the open is you may be braced with a pro. If you like the way they handle the dog after the brace talk with them and get some tips or see if they can teach you...

Your dog should adjust it's range accordingly to walking or HB.

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:Your dog should adjust it's range accordingly to walking or HB.

I agree, all of my dogs know the difference.

kensfishing wrote:

Cajun Casey wrote:AF walking stakes and NSTRA trials have a lot of pro participation.

AF and NSTRA is a whole different venue. Pros don't make a living walking. Besides just because they are called pros, doesn't make them unbeatable. I've beat way too many them.

And, AKC isn't the only game in town, even on foot.

Yes there alot of other venues to run dogs in. Not just AKC. I run both AF and AKC. Won't do any more walking stake, not with both knees gone. Horseback is alot easier on my. As fas as I know there aren't any NSTRA or NAVDA or Hunt tests done on horseback.

I'm attending my first NSTRA trial next weekend. I'm pretty excited. I'm just going to watch though, I'm having a problem with Tucker not slamming onto rock solid points and STAYING on them without breaking, I think it is because he has been on so many running pheasant and no wild quail that don't run.

ElectricShorthairs wrote:I'm attending my first NSTRA trial next weekend. I'm pretty excited. I'm just going to watch though, I'm having a problem with Tucker not slamming onto rock solid points and STAYING on them without breaking, I think it is because he has been on so many running pheasant and no wild quail that don't run.

Are you running in open or amateur? What region?

As far as busting birds, if the dog does it once, you will get a warning. The second bird it takes out, you will get picked up.

Good luck, keep us posted!

Nevermind, I just saw you are only observing........

For future reference, what would you suggest a newbie to run in with a young, still learning dog?
I wish could get him on about 15 covey of Bobs a day, I really think that would solve 75% of his problems.....alas those days are gone.....

EShort, take your dog to the level of break on shot. I know several people who hunt more than they compete and it works for them.

cmc -

I do both AF and AKC stakes with my guys. I do mostly horseback stuff, but I have been known to walk a brace or two. The dogs do learn to adjust to whatever game we are playing. I am sure yours will also. it might not happen the first time, but it will happen.

While there is a significant number of AF pros that walk, particularly in USCSDA stakes, I cannot recall more than a couple AKC pros that do any amount of walking stakes in my area.

There are some however.

I personally would not worry about the level of competition in open versus amateur in AKC. I generally don't.

If your dog is at the master hunter level, you should not have any significant problems being competitive in any gundog stake, IMO. A fair number of gundog stakes are run as non-retrieving stakes. That is a whole level of complexity you can avoid, if you choose.

RayG

Cajun Casey wrote:EShort, take your dog to the level of break on shot. I know several people who hunt more than they compete and it works for them.

For singles, I could see this working great. How does the dog handle coveys - with multiple shots?

Cajun Casey, I would but he still breaks on point every now and then, he doesn't flush the bird, he just relocates to the other side and it's not necessary, maybe he thinks they're going to run since they mostly do in KS. But he does bust them every now and then.

ElectricShorthairs wrote:Cajun Casey, I would but he still breaks on point every now and then, he doesn't flush the bird, he just relocates to the other side and it's not necessary, maybe he thinks they're going to run since they mostly do in KS. But he does bust them every now and then.

Time to introduce him to the concept of steady. Those are your birds, not his.

100% to both if he is broke. However, you want to walk every one of those braces before you run. That will give you an idea of what is expected of you as well as the layout of the course. You'll also get an idea of what kind of dogs you are against and where your dog fits in the big scheme of things. On the up side, you'll also see how others are handling their dogs, and that is just as important as how good your dog is.

Most guys at these trial are more than willing to help you out so don't be afraid to ask questions, and certainly don't get discouraged with failure. I've come a long way in three years with perserverence and experience. See my post under "My First Field Champion" in Brags. It is a very humbling sport as well as rewarding. Good Luck.

Bill

Just because it's a Walking trial doesn't mean they can't ride horses and watch. It's alot easier than walking. The scouts will be on horseback. Just don't go into the bird field, if that's what they're doing. But watch and have fun.

Actually, our walking trials in some ways are way more difficult than horseback trials. At least the competition levels are. The fun factor is WAY higher though. More cordial and inviting.

If you can worke up the nerv, ask somebody if they could spare a horse for a brace or two to watch. Most people don't mind and have horses that could use the work.

If you come to one at Barkeyville, PA. Look me up - I always am willing to lend a horse to a new person so they can ride and watch and ask questions. Best way to learn is to watch as many braces as you possibly can.

Got a question for some of you trialers. I will try my hand at this sport this year also. Dog is fast, flashy, staunch and steady as a rock.
Question is, she is a shorthair and carries the 9:00 lower tail and head (comomn of most cont. breeds). Does this poes a problem in jdgement in A.F. when braced and judged against the higher head/tailed carrying e.pointers?
Would I be better suited going to a specialty breed trial with all shorthairs? Or am I assuming too far into the judgement on style?

johnson48 wrote:Got a question for some of you trialers. I will try my hand at this sport this year also. Dog is fast, flashy, staunch and steady as a rock.
Question is, she is a shorthair and carries the 9:00 lower tail and head (comomn of most cont. breeds). Does this poes a problem in jdgement in A.F. when braced and judged against the higher head/tailed carrying e.pointers?
Would I be better suited going to a specialty breed trial with all shorthairs? Or am I assuming too far into the judgement on style?

Does the dog point with a 9:00 tail?

First of all, the dog is going to have a much better chance of winning if you enter it, versus just sitting at home. So, if you want to run your dog, run your dog and let the chips fall where they may,

Can you win with a dog with less that perfect style? Yep, but it means that everything else must be pretty much perfect. Bird work, application, intensity on point (much more important that style), pattern, handling,bird finding etc is going to have to be really strong.

But think of it this way, unless the dog handles for the handler and stays on course, applies himself to where birds should be, has the nose to find birds, will point them with intensity, had the training and cooperation to stay steady to wing and shot, style on point doesn't matter. Most dogs take themselves out of contention before style can be judged.

I know a guy down in west Texas who for many years ran his female GSP in local NBHA/ABHA trials, against mainly pointers and setters. She wasn't the flashiest dog, she wasn't the biggest going dog, in fact she wasn't a competitive AKC walking trial dog at the time. She pointed with a 10:00 tail usually. She placed in a TON of local walking trials, because she was a bird finding fool who stayed broke. When scenting conditions were bad, she found more than her share of birds. When bracemates stole point and ripped the birds she stood there like a statue. She wasn't the fastest going dog around but she went right to cover and hunted it. Were there times when she lost to pointers with 12:00 sticks? Yep, but she placed far more than what most people would ever guess.

Go try it for yourself. There are virtually no walking "specialty breed trials" for GSPs; most of what you're going to run are going to be open to all breeds.

JMO,
Dave