Opinions on hunting a Retriever with a Pointer

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:26 pm

We go hunting with some good friends of ours that have 4 male labs..they hunt and show the labs and they are great retrievers BUT we also met up with another friend who has an EP and we all went out together..it just seems to me that the pointer loses out on the reward of the retrieve when a labs around..am i looking at this the wrong way?..he seemed disappointed when the lab got to get the bird that he pointed..do any of you hunt with a lab AND a pointer or do you guys prefer just having one dog do it all?.....ruth

gittrdonebritts · Post by **gittrdonebritts** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:41 pm

There are several threads about hunting flushers with pointers try searching it here

Meller · Post by **Meller** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:42 pm

I prefer the one dog do it all.

thelast2 · Post by **thelast2** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:11 pm

it just seems to me that the pointer loses out on the reward of the retrieve when a labs around

Only if the handler of the dog allows for it!!!

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:25 pm

Meller wrote:I prefer the one dog do it all.

This!

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:15 pm

There can be a problem if the retriever is aggressive and the other is not. My dads pride and joy, the first time out, flushed, marked the fall, and trotted out and picked up the bird. My uncles big GSP knocked her down and took the bird..After the second time, my dads dog just held the bird and waited for the GSP. Had a pair of big labs start this the first time I hunted with them. My dog picked up my bird, one of the labs took it. My dog is not aggressive, except for finding birds. I moved to the far outside with my dog and stayed away from the labs, but Piper was off her game all day.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:33 am

I see this becoming an issue with our friends and i dont want it to become one..they were saying it will be great when my GSP is old enough to go out with all of us and i was thinkin "if my dog points the bird its retrieving the bird" ...like i said maybe im looking at it wrong but i think if their dog took a retrieved bird out of my dogs mouth i will have an issue with that

..i think i will just address the concerns with them asap to avoid any issues further down the road regarding this...thanks....ruth

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:46 am

I see this becoming an issue with our friends and i dont want it to become one..

I have read, and maybe people on here more knowledgable than I could comment, but it might be a good idea to hunt your young dog ALONE for her first season on wild birds. something about picking up bad habits from other dogs and you not being able to control her bird work. also, no offence, but what kind of friends let their dog(s) retrieve a bird that you shot over your dog while on point?

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:55 am

GUNDOGS wrote:I see this becoming an issue with our friends and i dont want it to become one..they were saying it will be great when my GSP is old enough to go out with all of us and i was thinkin "if my dog points the bird its retrieving the bird" ...like i said maybe im looking at it wrong but i think if their dog took a retrieved bird out of my dogs mouth i will have an issue with that ..i think i will just address the concerns with them asap to avoid any issues further down the road regarding this...thanks....ruth

IMO the retrieve will be the least of your worries if you hunt your young pointing dog with flushers

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:54 pm

I definitely had no intentions of hunting her with them any time soon, i for sure am not interested in hunting her with any one or any dogs at this point shes only 3 months old..BUT i want to address the issue now because its a situation that came up..like i said they mentioned hunting our dogs together..but from what i hear many people hunt pointers and labs together with no issues..obviously it must depend on the dogs training right?..at what point if any is it ok to hunt them together and what should the "rules" or "manners" be for that to happen..i have only been hunting with versatile dogs that do it all, never mulitple dogs that share the process.. so ANY info or advice or experience on this would be appreciated..our friends that had the dogs out that day seemed to be fine with the hole thing thats why i didnt say anything and minded my own bizz cause i am pretty new to the field compared to them....thanks for any insight that will help...ruth

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:42 pm

We hunt with pointers and retrievers in the same field all the time. The pointers seam to go about their business and the flushers do their own thing. All the dogs seem to hunt well together, most of the guys I hunt with don't spend tons of time training so when a bird gets shot its anybody's bird. I think the retrieve probably means more to the trainer than the dog IMO. If my dog flushes 7 birds and doesn't get a retrieve I don't see him moping around hanging his head, he's hunting full out. When I do retrieving training with my dog I always get some of the bumpers so he knows he's not entitled to all of them. For me its about getting out hunting with good friends and enjoying a day of hunting. In a perfect world we would all be running labs, however that's not the case and I would never turn down a trip or fail to invite someone because they had a dog that only pointed or retrieved. I would fail to invite them if they had a dog that simply refused to listen. My dogs have always been trained so I could call them off of a retrieve if courtesy dictated it and I like when a when others had the ability to do the same but that's not always the case. I rather be hunting with friends than sitting at home.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:51 pm

I believe your answer will have to be a product of what you want from your dog and your hunting experience. I have one close friend with a lab I trust to hunt with, it honors point, and hups at the flush, and is force broke to retrieve on command. The problem with the groups or parties as described is that bumped and flushed birds get shot and retrieves are raced to. None of this speaks to any kind of controil or training for advanced manners. Someone who has little control and is trying to apply some to keep their flusher from your pointer will likely be screaming a dog's name, the words; no, come, here and any number of profanities. Many folks don't mind this, and are happy to hunt like this as long as birds go in the bag. It is all a matter of choice.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:07 pm

I know that I can only speak for my dog and his training. If I do hunt with groups that allow their dogs to race to bird I do I allow my dog to do the same. I now with one blow from a whistle my dog is going to stop on a dime, every time. If my dog chased after I blew my whistle I would have to go back and work on training, however I have not had that issue.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:04 pm

When I spoke of young I meant a dog into its 2nd or 3 rd year. As was mentioned hunting a pointing dog with a flushing dog that doesn't honor point (and most dont) is not conducive to having a solid pointing dog. Why can't the dogs be rotated? Is there a reason they have to all be on the ground at the same time? Surely your friends can respect the difference in dogs.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:50 pm

I too enjoy hunting with friends or even just talking about hunting with friends

and we have made so many new friends just this year that we are planning hunts with ..im glad i posted this cause i am getting confident that it doesnt have to be an issue..I dont see why they cant be rotated, that would seem more ideal to me( which being alot less experienced in the field hunting with other breeds is why i like info from you more experienced hunters cause i wouldnt have thought of that)..i dont think the issue is with my friends at all, its with me..they seem to think it will work fine but we have never had a real convo about it yet cause i didnt want to come off too protective or paranoid..the more info and experiences shared the more i see how it can work if done right and at the right time(depending on the dogs)..thanks.....ruth

Mr. Crappie · Post by **Mr. Crappie** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:08 pm

My best hunting buddy had a very nice black lab we used to take with us bird hunting. We usually had two or three pointers and the lab stuck pretty close to us. Whenever we had a point, he would make the lab sit and stay while we flushed the birds. The lab would then help find dead birds. Sometimes she got the retrieve and other times she didn't. It wasn't a bad thing.

JMc · Post by **JMc** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:10 pm

I hunt my GSP with my buddies lab and we slay pheasants. Saves wear and tear on mine because we will hold him on retrieves.

volraider · Post by **volraider** » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:13 pm

I would not hunt a pointer and a flusher together until the pointer was done competing in tests and trials. After that I wouldn't mind.

bhairhoger · Post by **bhairhoger** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:08 am

A dogs first hunting season I like to hunt either by myself or one other person. I also make it known that only one person shooting at a time. I would rather take the chance of missing the bird than a group a people unloading their guns as fast as possible. Even if the dog is not gun shy 4 guns unloading in rapid succession could cause an issue.

I also hunt the dog alone its first season. I want the young dog to build confidence and find all the birds rather than having a more experienced dog find the birds first.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:28 pm

Everytime a buddy mentions owning a lab, I immediately tell him or her that if we ever hunt together, I won't hunt my pointing dogs with flushing dogs. Of course I am polite about it and it can avoid issues down the road. I am talking about people that I invite or ask to go whith me.

Charlie

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:56 pm

Birddogger, have you had any negative experiences when you've hunted your pointers with labs and if so what were they?

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:15 pm

No, I have never hunted pointing dogs with flushing dogs and have nothing against it for those that do. It is just my preference to hunt with pointing dogs only, nothing more.

Charlie

jarbo03 · Post by **jarbo03** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:24 pm

I hunted a lab and britt together for many years, they both went about their business as usual never competing for birds, adding a lab to the mix did nothing to hinder the pointing dogs, as long as it is well trained, a well trained flusher is an asset to any hunting group.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:24 am

This board is always funny to me, no matter how bad of an idea something is there are always a few that chime about how great it is or how it worked for them. Pointing dogs that have a future in tests/trials OR being trained to a broke level and flushing dogs don't mix unless the flusher is kept at heel.

Just because it might work once in a while doesn't mean it ought to be tried. Now if you are just out gunning birds regardless of how it was handled... go for it, I have done plenty of that as well.

So I guess it needs to be determined how far the OP wants to go with the training of her pup.

Soignie · Post by **Soignie** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:41 am

rotate the dogs, hunt the flushers for an hour or two then the pointing dogs or vice versa, if your friends have a problem with that then find some new friends. Mingling flushers and pointers may work on a case by case basis but it will always be the exception rather than the rule, if you want your dog to point staunchly and do so consistently don't hunt her with flushers.

Oscar · Post by **Oscar** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:47 am

I working my lab with my pointer like a non slip retriver. I flushing the bird alwais.

You can to see

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Va1R5rBULw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP6lqEeLtv0

In training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMzw2RU2FqQ

I hope you like because for me is the better -lab and pointer-

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:33 am

This board is always funny to me, no matter how bad of an idea something is there are always a few that chime about how great it is or how it worked for them. Pointing dogs that have a future in tests/trials OR being trained to a broke level and flushing dogs don't mix unless the flusher is kept at heel.

Just because it might work once in a while doesn't mean it ought to be tried.

Sorry the OP asked how the two dogs worked together. I have hunted with pointers and flushes together in the same field probably 40 days a year over the last 20 seasons it has worked great for the most part. I think the OP wanted some information based on experience not just thought. I always think it funny when someone who has seldom or has never done it chimes in and makes something sound impossible. So if you have hunted to two together say so and your experience, if you've never done it put that out there. On this board I like to give advice based on my experiences and not my theories, however if I have no experience at it I always tell people. I have know experience with trial dogs but I do find it somewhat surprising that they would be strictly working within 10 or 20 yard of their handlers along with the labs. The pointers that I hunt with seldom overlap a flushing dog.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:53 am

ACooper wrote:When I spoke of young I meant a dog into its 2nd or 3 rd year. As was mentioned hunting a pointing dog with a flushing dog that doesn't honor point (and most dont) is not conducive to having a solid pointing dog. Why can't the dogs be rotated? Is there a reason they have to all be on the ground at the same time? Surely your friends can respect the difference in dogs.

Exactly right.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:47 am

nikegundog wrote:
This board is always funny to me, no matter how bad of an idea something is there are always a few that chime about how great it is or how it worked for them. Pointing dogs that have a future in tests/trials OR being trained to a broke level and flushing dogs don't mix unless the flusher is kept at heel.

Just because it might work once in a while doesn't mean it ought to be tried.
Sorry the OP asked how the two dogs worked together. I have hunted with pointers and flushes together in the same field probably 40 days a year over the last 20 seasons it has worked great for the most part. I think the OP wanted some information based on experience not just thought. I always think it funny when someone who has seldom or has never done it chimes in and makes something sound impossible. So if you have hunted to two together say so and your experience, if you've never done it put that out there. On this board I like to give advice based on my experiences and not my theories, however if I have no experience at it I always tell people. I have know experience with trial dogs but I do find it somewhat surprising that they would be strictly working within 10 or 20 yard of their handlers along with the labs. The pointers that I hunt with seldom overlap a flushing dog.

So what your saying is that you have never had a flusher take out a bird that one of the pointing dogs has pointed? Cause I have. When my dogs go on point I go to the point, flushing dogs learn quickly to do the same. There is a difference between using a lab as a non slip retirever with pointing dogs and labs that are out producing their own game.

I am a bird hunter first and have owned labs in the not so distant past, and we will occasionally run some of our older pointing dogs with my cousins chessies. It's not the best idea for young dogs that are going to be trained to a high level. Or any dog that you plan on keeping 100% broke. Out of respect for everyones dogs we usually rotate gives everyone a chance.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:17 pm

My point being was the OP asked for people experience was with hunting a pointer with a flusher. When people commented on it you brushed them off for sharing their experiences. I thought that sharing your experiences about it was what this board was about. Yes I have seen a lab take out a pointed bird, however its happens so few times it didn't seem to be a problem. When I hunt next to a dog that goes on point I simply blow on the whistle and have my dog sit until the pointed bird has been flushed, shot and retrieved.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:06 pm

Ruth, the solution might be as simple as taking an edge and having the person with the best controlled dog hunt next to you. I think all you have to do is talk with them and express your concerns and I'm sure they would make a adjustment to help you. I myself would be apposed to simply switching dogs out if it didn't have to happen, however I have kenneled my dogs when the situation presented itself.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:10 pm

nikegundog wrote:My point being was the OP asked for people experience was with hunting a pointer with a flusher. When people commented on it you brushed them off for sharing their experiences. I thought that sharing your experiences about it was what this board was about. Yes I have seen a lab take out a pointed bird, however its happens so few times it didn't seem to be a problem. When I hunt next to a dog that goes on point I simply blow on the whistle and have my dog sit until the pointed bird has been flushed, shot and retrieved.

I would say that your labs are better trained than most.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Thanks for the insight guys..she is taking her NA test may 14th and if she does well then later we will be entering her in the UT test, our intentions are to get her JH, SH, MH and basically want to take her as far as we can go with her..i need some advice on when she should be ok to hunt with flushers(not just age or seasons) but like what level of training/testing should she be at to not confuse her or set her back?..thanks so much for the help...ruth

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:22 pm

Ruth, I have hunted both together through a progression in my hunting manner and dog training abilities. Depending on where you hunt a flushing dog may or may not be in sight at any given moment, and like pointing dogs that are steady to WSF in true hunting conditions, mannerly flushing dogs are few and far between. Most flushing dogs will bust by a pointer to get to a bird, and of those that do handle, stopping them will largely be by command, whistle or voice. So consider this, you can expect that while on point during the hunt a flushing dog will either blow by a young dog on point, or will be controlled loudly with commands and noise that will confuse or pressure a young dog on point.

When does it become ok? I would not trust a two year old master hunter to handle that pressure, I would fear major set backs. I would (and this depends largely on the training and dog...some I would say never) feel much more comfortable with a mature reliable dog of 5-6 and 7 years old. Training isn't hard, consistency is the challenge. Getting a dog broke is achievable by most but keeping them there is not easy, we are disciplining the dog's natural tendencies out. A dog that breaks and goes with a flusher even one time, may need to be pulled off birds and taken back steps in training, each time it gets more difficult.

There are literally thousands who enjoy hunting this way and know one should sit in judgement of that. Most pointers will naturally hold a bird long enough for you to get there in time, and many hunters are happy to get a shot regardless of how it occurs. My answer is based on the fact that you want to test and or have your dog judged to a standard.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:14 pm

VERY CLEAR information there chukar12..i hope to one day have the knowledge that so many of you have on birddogs..the more insight i get from people like yourself the more i want to learn and get back out in the field with the dogs..i find that even though alot of folks on here do things differently and have had different experiences i still take from all of them something and it sure does benefit not only me but my dogs

..thanks for any and all info guys/gals.....ruth

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:29 pm

nikegundog, I did not give any advice on whether or not you should hunt a pointer and lab together since I have no experience with it. As I stated, it is simply my preference not to. The only advice I gave was to voice your concerns with your friends immediately to avoid any issues later, which I do have experience with. In my case, none of my friends have non pointing dogs trained to the standard it would take to hunt upland birds with pointing dogs. Besides, I have no desire to hunt upland birds like that.

Charlie

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:16 pm

Birddogger, my comment was not directed at you and I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I got on this board to learn and I have. I was just trying to see what experiences people had negative or positive and where they were coming from with their knowledge. I also was defending my right to tell of my experience even if it differed with some.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:12 pm

nikegundog wrote:Birddogger, my comment was not directed at you and I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I got on this board to learn and I have. I was just trying to see what experiences people had negative or positive and where they were coming from with their knowledge. I also was defending my right to tell of my experience even if it differed with some.

Hey, no problem, you didn't offend me at all.

Charlie

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:23 pm

I hunt my lab and my english setter at the same time and do not have an issue. I was worried about hurting my setter pointing by hunting her with a flusher, but it wasn't an issue. My setter runs much bigger than my lab so there is not a lot of conflicts with birds. When in off chance they dog find the same bird I will let whichever dog first found the bird work it. When working a point I have my lab at heel and then comman sit at a distance while I work the bird. My lab has learned that when I say "are you on point?" when my setter's bell stops she is to come to heel. My lab is also learning on her own to back or honor the setter's point. The lab isn't perfect, but when it works it's cool.

This is my lab honoring my setter on a grouse.

The biggest issue I've found is my lab isn't getting as many birds because with my setter ranging out farther the setter is finding them first.

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:24 am

@nikegundog and birddogger, i found both of your posts informative and i have to say that i am on this forum quite a bit and there are a handful of people i look and read posts from and learn ALOT of things from their knowledge and the 2 of you are in that handful..you both have helped me out and i appreciate it very much, thanks so much

..ruth

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:30 am

Grange, when did you start hunting them together?..also what training do you recommend my GSP have before she hunts with a lab?..i know others have given their answer on this and i am not disregarding anyones info on here, the more info and different perspectives i can have the better...thanks....ruth

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:39 am

Make sure she is fully broke. A lab flushing birds in front of her points could cause her to break before she should.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:27 am

nikegundog wrote:Birddogger, my comment was not directed at you and I am sorry if I offended you in any way. I got on this board to learn and I have. I was just trying to see what experiences people had negative or positive and where they were coming from with their knowledge. I also was defending my right to tell of my experience even if it differed with some.

You made quite a point about the OP asking what experiences you have had using both together, and yet the very topic of this forum that she wrote was"Opinions on hunting a retriever with a pointer". I believe that is what everyone did and ni where was it even suggested what kind or how much experience have you had. Glad you posted your opinion and that everyone else did too. And I didn't see where anyone had better opinions.

My opinion is if you are going to test your dog in any venue is would bve very wise to keep them seperate. Later if you want to hunt with your friends do whatever you want, but you have enough things to worry about and train a pup to the standards it takes to compete, just don't do it. What is my experiece level, very little because I saw the results very quickly years ago.

Ezzy

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:18 pm

Ok, so once she is broke and is finished testing then it will be ok to hunt her with flushers if i am understanding correctly right?..now for another question, what signs do i look for to tell me shes ready to be broke?.. im learning alot here so forgive my questions most of you already know the answer to

..i have never had a broke dog or trained one that far before but this dog is THE ONE..we owe it to her to do it right, shes naturally birdie, very obedient, shes got the pedigree, shes really smart and a great family pet so we have the entire package just trying to put it all together correctly....ruth

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:05 pm

Ruth, You will normally see the dog start to break off the chase before going far or you might even see her stand for a second or two before she goes. I think you will see some signs that you will recognize when it happens. And if you don't it should be time to start when she gets reliable on being steady till the flush.

Don't get too exuberant with your pup as you may not feel that way as she gets to her teenage mode somewhere between 1 and 2 years old. It has always been my contention that a dog has to have one bad year. It's either the first year when you swear some of them will never learn or after a great first year the second becomes a nightmare. Just seems it has to be one of them.

Just go slow and be patient and it will work.

Ezzy

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:03 am

ACooper wrote:This board is always funny to me, no matter how bad of an idea something is there are always a few that chime about how great it is or how it worked for them. Pointing dogs that have a future in tests/trials OR being trained to a broke level and flushing dogs don't mix unless the flusher is kept at heel.

My Ace dog in six years has never taken a single step on a bird in a field trial, and he has had at least a couple thousand birds rooted out from in front of his point while guiding by other people's flushing dogs and poorly trained pointing dogs. It made him more broke having to stand through those situations.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Chief_dog wrote:
ACooper wrote:This board is always funny to me, no matter how bad of an idea something is there are always a few that chime about how great it is or how it worked for them. Pointing dogs that have a future in tests/trials OR being trained to a broke level and flushing dogs don't mix unless the flusher is kept at heel.
My Ace dog in six years has never taken a single step on a bird in a field trial, and he has had at least a couple thousand birds rooted out from in front of his point while guiding by other people's flushing dogs and poorly trained pointing dogs. It made him more broke having to stand through those situations.

Dave you are an experienced trainer and have far more experience with competition dogs than I do, and I have heard from you and others how BROKE Ace is.

But I stand by my post, flushing dogs and young pointing dogs do not mix.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:39 am

Keep in mind also, that it depends a bit on the pointing dog's retrieving DESIRE. I have hunted with a pointer that is FF, but will give the job up readily without much caring as FINDING and POINTING are her favorite games. BUT I have a GSP that LOVES that retrieve. IT IS the reward for him. He isn't at all agressive about it, but I do think that he would lose his desire to find birds over time if that was taken out. You can even see him start to drop his tail on point a bit if the birds are being missed alot.

I believe if he could curse at us, he sometimes would. :roll:

Grange · Post by **Grange** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:32 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:Grange, when did you start hunting them together?..also what training do you recommend my GSP have before she hunts with a lab?..i know others have given their answer on this and i am not disregarding anyones info on here, the more info and different perspectives i can have the better...thanks....ruth

My lab was 4.5 years old when I got my english setter and I've hunted them together since my setter's first hunting season. My setter turned two this January so they've been hunting together for two seasons. I'm probably not the right person to be offering advise about pointing dogs as my setter is my first pointing dog. I grew up with retrievers and feel comfortable talking about them, but with pointing dogs I don't have a lot of experience. That said I can talk about my experience with my two dogs.

Basically from my setter's first time in the grouse woods she liked to run big so I never really had an issue of my lab and setter hanging out at the same range.. I just got my setter a bell and let her roll. This evening for example we were out running on wild birds and she pointed a woodcock at 167 yards. This alone avoided most of my concerns about running a pointer and flusher together. As far as formal training I worked each dog separately . I got my setter STWS using quail and pigeons before I truthed her on wild birds. When we moved to wild birds I ran them together but I made "bleep" sure my lab listened. If I commanded her to sit off the the side I expect my lab to sit and wait for me to work the bird. I also must be able to call my lab off a chase in needed. I also am able to let one dog run while having control of the other.