Pointing dog advise

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Hi all. Been a reader here for a while, never posted, but asking for some advise. I have always had Labs, I lost her and now Im ready to get a new pup, and I want a pointing dog. I hunt grouse a lot, make 2 trips to SD a season, enjoy hunt tests and MUGS. And my dogs always are house dogs. Im undecided on breed, with little experience in pointing pups, my only stipulation is I want NOTHING to do with French Brittanys.
I guess I am most interested in an English Pointer, a GWP, or a GSP. Any advise or personal reasons for your preference would be appreciated!

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:31 pm

Best thing to do is go see a bunch of dogs for yourself go to trials hunt tests hunt clubs so you can make an educated decision for what You like

Pick the breeder for their dogs and temperaments that You like and seek.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:43 pm

Are you planning on participating in AKC Hunt Tests? If so, a Continental might be a good choice. Pointers are not a field performance dog in AKC, although ypu could certainly cross register a Field dog. Have you a NAVHDA chapter nearby? A training day would give you a chance to observe and compare.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:46 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Are you planning on participating in AKC Hunt Tests? If so, a Continental might be a good choice. Pointers are not a field performance dog in AKC, although ypu could certainly cross register a Field dog. Have you a NAVHDA chapter nearby? A training day would give you a chance to observe and compare.

I would do either AKC or NAVDA. Have also gone to a few Midwest Upland Gundog Series. I, at this point dont prefer a certain "test" or competition, just find them all fun and a great way to keep dog in shape and doing what h they love. A Continential????

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:05 pm

Minnesota.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:12 pm

Might want to direct that to the original poster. Homey don't play no NAVHDA.

Serious duck issues. :b

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:22 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Might want to direct that to the original poster. Homey don't play no NAVHDA. Serious duck issues. :b

Sissy.........!

Don't tell me you never played with frogs.

Coveyrise64

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:34 pm

Get a POINTER!

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:54 pm

Coveyrise64 wrote:
Cajun Casey wrote:Might want to direct that to the original poster. Homey don't play no NAVHDA. Serious duck issues. :b
Sissy.........! Don't tell me you never played with frogs.

Coveyrise64

Ducks are nasty and they stink. I would rather gaff carp than mess with ducks.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:03 pm

Some of the guys who hunt behind pointers are only capable of shooting coots, the rest of the ducks fly away too quickly, hence the comments.

Hattrick · Post by **Hattrick** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:09 pm

Pointers like ducks:)

rafael · Post by **rafael** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:13 pm

my dog keeps catching the birds... the quail birds not flying that far... NOW I'm going to start with pigeons also with bird launcher and check cord... Am i heading right direction?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:19 pm

Hattrick wrote:Pointers like ducks:)

Someone needs to. I can't handle them. And, that's with a week's tally of two possums and a woodchuck from my running crew.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:26 pm

Apparently I havent been on here long enough to get serious response or understand the banter going on. It was worth a try. Thanks.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:12 pm

It's really preference, outside of what games you want to play.

I like long tails and short hair, so I'm an EP guy.

I'm not scared of ducks, but a couple a year is plenty for me.

Modi · Post by **Modi** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:19 am

BaileyDog,

Its not you. Give the people on this site a chance to throw around some breed snobbery and we can't resist. It is all (almost) good-natured though. It really does ultimately come down to personal preference. If you do a lot of duck hunting and want your dog to retrieve, you might want to consider a Versatile dog like a griffon, GWP, DD, etc. I have seen some exceptional water retrieving brittanies though, so don't think that you can't do it with setters, pointers, etc.

I was going to suggest Brittanies as a great versatile breed that can hunt big cover (like the Dakotas) and be great in the house, but if you aren't into them, it won't work for you.

I like GWPs because it is what I grew up with and I love their personality and drive. They are not, in my opinion, easy dogs to train. They are smart and stubborn. They are great family dogs. Shorthairs are popular for a reason. They are great dogs all around and are good family dogs.

You mentioned EPs. IN MY OPINION Pointers are probably the best pure bird finders. They cover a lot of ground though, and are not terribly cuddly. I have never met an aggressive or unpleasant one. I just find them a little aloof for my tastes. Plus, my short legs can't keep up with them.

Understand that all this is my opinion based on the limited number of dogs I have known in my life. Others will no doubt have different opinions. I agree that you should go meet some breeders and especially their dogs. Attend a trial or two and see what you connect with. Let's hope it is not a Griffador.

By the way, "Continental breeds" refers to Continental Europe. That is, dogs from Hungary, Germany, Italy, France, as opposed to breeds from the British Isles like EP's and the various setters.

If you really want to see the crap fly on this site ask about dog food.

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:49 am

You say that you "hunt grouse alot" then get a pointer, over a hundred years of grouse trials with no GSP or GWP's being named a champion should answer your question.

larry · Post by **larry** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:17 am

I have GSPs but all you have mentioned are good. Like others have said go to a couple NAVHDA training days and meet the people and get a chance to see various breeds first hand.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:23 am

Modi,
Thanks for the info. And ILL refrain from any dog food posts, I already feed the best, so no need to ask on that

.
Yea, I had a disaister of experience with a French Britt, ended up giving away a 7 month old dog I paid 1500.00 for, plus another 400.00 for a month with a pro trainer and vet bills to check a few worries out. Long, crappy story. And the guy I gave her to, also gave her away.

The way you say EPs are aloof, is mostly why I asked for advise here, I know they all have the ability to find birds, and its mostly personal preference. I do have a friend who has a male GSP, and he is terrific hunter, well behaved, and isnt hyper like I often hear about GSP. However, he could has no interest in people interaction, ever, at all. I personally hate his personality. If the dog isnt hunting, has zero interest in humans. For me, Id prefer a little bit of affection/family type dog. I actuallu found a EP breeder I really like. Want to put a deposit down but I fear they might be poor family dogs in the off time.

I have talked to MANY breeders, unfortunately, most can "sell" thier breed. So I agree Ill have to go to a test/trial, but just thought Id throw out something here. Thanks for the info.
Nick

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:39 am

The short answer to the question of finding a pup that has a "people" personality is to let the pup choose you.

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:56 am

gpblitz wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:You say that you "hunt grouse alot" then get a pointer, over a hundred years of grouse trials with no GSP or GWP's being named a champion should answer your question.
And not a bird put in the bag.. Go check out the AKC and NAVHDA tests. You'll see alot of good dogs from various breeds.

Just trying to give the man the truth and not the BS thrown around by the converted coon hounds that need six months training to pass a natural ability test.

Pointers make great companions and understand when you speak to them in english.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:11 am

Grouse Dog Guy wrote:You say that you "hunt grouse alot" then get a pointer, over a hundred years of grouse trials with no GSP or GWP's being named a champion should answer your question.

I know 2 grouse guides personally that have hunted for 60 years between the two of them. They always have owned Britts and GSPs. Don't confuse trials with real hunting. Dogs will win trials with 2-3 finds. My buddies dog's find that many every 15 minutes.

Pointers are great hunting dogs, but they are no better than other breeds.

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:23 am

Birddogz wrote:
Grouse Dog Guy wrote:You say that you "hunt grouse alot" then get a pointer, over a hundred years of grouse trials with no GSP or GWP's being named a champion should answer your question.
I know 2 grouse guides personally that have hunted for 60 years between the two of them. They always have owned Britts and GSPs. Don't confuse trials with real hunting. Dogs will win trials with 2-3 finds. My buddies dog's find that many every 15 minutes.

"Pointers are great hunting dogs, but they are no better than other breeds."

I agree, unless your hunting grouse or anything with feathers!

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:31 am

Pointers get a bad rap on the "aloof" personality. I'd heard that rumor repeated for years before I got my first one, and am sure glad I didn't buy into it. The pointer I have is as good of a companion as any of the continentals I've owned, and just as affectionate. Very quiet and clean, no bad habits, gentle with the kids, very eager to please. He's also a good retriever, and solid in the water. Wouldn't use him for late-season waterfowling, but he's fine for jumping dams or early-season water work.

There's no shortage of breeds to choose from, and if you do your homework you'll be able to find good dogs in most of them. Take your time, get to some tests or trials to watch the various breeds work, and you'll eventually find what you're looking for.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:37 am

Grouse Dog Guy,
I can tell you from experience this year that Pointers don't do well in ND in December.

They tend to get chilly.

It was -30 wind chill that day though. They are great dogs, don't get me wrong. They are also very good natured dogs. Not the best versatile breed, but very capable of being adequate if trained properly. If they had a thicker coat, I would own one for certain.

displaced_texan · Post by **displaced_texan** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:48 am

Cajun Casey wrote:The short answer to the question of finding a pup that has a "people" personality is to let the pup choose you.

Yep.

I've had several excellent EP pets, and know many that say the same. The one I have now is an extremely friendly dog, even by the standards of my friends that own pure companion dogs...

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:39 pm

You live in a hot bed of GWP, or, the German version, the Drahthaar. A very fine breeder in the cities in Ned Sorley. I personally love the Draht. I think the one I have now is the finest hunting dog I've owned, and I've had a pile of them. I'm like you; grouse and woodcock in Wi., waterfowl on the Miss., Pheasant, Hunns and Sharpies in SD.

The Draht does everything you want and more. I put a neoprene vest on mine when it's icing up and we're duck hunting.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:19 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You live in a hot bed of GWP, or, the German version, the Drahthaar. A very fine breeder in the cities in Ned Sorley. I personally love the Draht. I think the one I have now is the finest hunting dog I've owned, and I've had a pile of them. I'm like you; grouse and woodcock in Wi., waterfowl on the Miss., Pheasant, Hunns and Sharpies in SD.

The Draht does everything you want and more. I put a neoprene vest on mine when it's icing up and we're duck hunting.

Thanks Ill look into that. Is he the breeder you got your pup from?

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:28 pm

bd2007,
Make plans to see the dogs you like most, and see the dogs preform in the field, watch how they act in the home. If you can, see the parents of the pup you are purchasing hunt, hunt with the dogs if you can possibly do it. Make sure the breeder is doing proper testing for his bredline, especially HD testing, ask about the replacement guarantee if the pup developes a genetic problem.
Good luck with picking your new pup.
RGD/Dave

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:19 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:You live in a hot bed of GWP, or, the German version, the Drahthaar. A very fine breeder in the cities in Ned Sorley. I personally love the Draht. I think the one I have now is the finest hunting dog I've owned, and I've had a pile of them. I'm like you; grouse and woodcock in Wi., waterfowl on the Miss., Pheasant, Hunns and Sharpies in SD.

The Draht does everything you want and more. I put a neoprene vest on mine when it's icing up and we're duck hunting.

I have to say that I agree. My DD really is a do it all dog as well. NAVHDA bred dogs in GSP, GWP, PP, are where it is, in my opinion.

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:54 pm

Birddogz wrote:Grouse Dog Guy,
I can tell you from experience this year that Pointers don't do well in ND in December. They tend to get chilly. It was -30 wind chill that day though. They are great dogs, don't get me wrong. They are also very good natured dogs. Not the best versatile breed, but very capable of being adequate if trained properly. If they had a thicker coat, I would own one for certain.

Ah, another one of the Great One's thinly-veiled slams at pointers. They're ok, but not really. If only they were better in one way or another, he might own one. Not the best, but adequate. It never ends.....

apachecadillac · Post by **apachecadillac** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:57 pm

If you live in Minnesota, go with an English pointer. They can double as sled dogs. A guy named Bob Wehle (as in the Elhew line of EP's) claimed in his classic book to have had some success racing a team of pointers against huskies and more traditional sled dogs. He's even got a picture in his classic Wing And Shot (p. 117) of the whole shennanigan. Hence the slogan, Elhew pointers, steady to wing and shot, they may mush, but they don't flush.

Just kidding.

I had a good experience going from labs to brits, but it sound like you must have had a bad French Brittany experience so I'll refrain from any serious suggestions.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:03 pm

Since the OP lives in MN I believe that Birddoggz issue is valid, however I would have worded it differently.

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:33 pm

ckirsch wrote:
Birddogz wrote:Grouse Dog Guy,
I can tell you from experience this year that Pointers don't do well in ND in December. They tend to get chilly. It was -30 wind chill that day though. They are great dogs, don't get me wrong. They are also very good natured dogs. Not the best versatile breed, but very capable of being adequate if trained properly. If they had a thicker coat, I would own one for certain.
Ah, another one of the Great One's thinly-veiled slams at pointers. They're ok, but not really. If only they were better in one way or another, he might own one. Not the best, but adequate. It never ends.....

14 year old girls have more confidence than you do.

I have never seen such an inability to handle the slightest criticism. It isn't even a criticism. Having more fur is good in the north, but not in the south. Pointers handle hot weather better than any dog I have ever seen. I have stated this numerous times on this forum. If I lived in KS, OK, TX, would own one for sure. Again, they are great dogs. They are great dogs. They are great dogs. Get it, Chief sensitive?

I said they were great dogs. I said they were adequate in VERSATILITY. Pointers are not a dominate force in versatility. I think any honest man would agree to that. Look at the books. GSPs, PPs, DDs, GWPs are more versatile. You told me your self that Scott trained GWPs that took hand signals like a Lab. Scott would also be the first to tell you that a pointer lacks the coat for late season hunting in cold conditions.

Why you care so much about what I think has always escaped me. You seem to go out of your way to start arguments with me. Chill out.

Post by **slistoe** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Birddogz wrote: Why you care so much about what I think has always escaped me. You seem to go out of your way to start arguments with me. Chill out.

Why you can never give your opinion and leave it at that escapes me. You need to make stuff up and try to discredit other breeds/people to try to bolster yourself, argue with anyone and everyone about anything and everything that is said on any topic on which you post. Someone needs a chill pill and it isn't ckirsch.

For the OP - your question was more than adequately answered by the first two posts on this thread. Everything that follows is really neither here nor there. Such discussions about whether an EP has enough coat, etc. etc. are largely academic because if a dog of virtually any sporting breed is properly acclimated to the weather they will hunt for you in any conditions that you as a human can reasonably endure. I have yet to see an ES, EP, GSP, Brit, GWP that was raised in the house as a member of the family be any less of a suck when it came to couch cuddle time than any other. Etc. Etc. The reality is that a well bred dog of any popular pointing dog breed (the popular ones are popular for a reason - and the scarce ones are scarce for a reason) will be more than adequate to meet the needs of the vast majority of hunters (hence why they are popular). The second reality is that you have to live with this dog as a constant companion for 12 mos. of the year, hunting with him for 3 or 4 mos. So... take a look at a bunch of dogs and decide which breed you could see yourself living with for 12 mos. of the year, find a successful breeder of quality field dogs and have fun with your new pup.

Grouse Dog Guy · Post by **Grouse Dog Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:46 pm

Birddogz wrote:
ckirsch wrote:
Birddogz wrote:Grouse Dog Guy,
I can tell you from experience this year that Pointers don't do well in ND in December. They tend to get chilly. It was -30 wind chill that day though. They are great dogs, don't get me wrong. They are also very good natured dogs. Not the best versatile breed, but very capable of being adequate if trained properly. If they had a thicker coat, I would own one for certain.
Ah, another one of the Great One's thinly-veiled slams at pointers. They're ok, but not really. If only they were better in one way or another, he might own one. Not the best, but adequate. It never ends.....
14 year old girls have more confidence than you do. I have never seen such an inability to handle the slightest criticism. It isn't even a criticism. Having more fur is good in the north, but not in the south. Pointers handle hot weather better than any dog I have ever seen. I have stated this numerous times on this forum. If I lived in KS, OK, TX, would own one for sure. Again, they are great dogs. They are great dogs. They are great dogs. Get it, Chief sensitive?

I said they were great dogs. I said they were adequate in VERSATILITY. Pointers are not a dominate force in versatility. I think any honest man would agree to that. Look at the books. GSPs, PPs, DDs, GWPs are more versatile. You told me your self that Scott trained GWPs that took hand signals like a Lab. Scott would also be the first to tell you that a pointer lacks the coat for late season hunting in cold conditions.

Why you care so much about what I think has always escaped me. You seem to go out of your way to start arguments with me. Chill out.

I must have misunderstood baileydog2007 question, I thought he was looking for a grouse dog. If you guys want to talk him into a possum killer thats okay.

Gordon Guy · Post by **Gordon Guy** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:58 pm

I can't resist: Go with A Gordon Setter.

1) Great grouse dogs, Been in the US hunting grouse long before most breeds. Good with pheasant too.
2) Great house dogs, good with kids, medium shedders
3) Easy to see in the snow
4) Tolerate cold better than most other hunting dogs.
5) Train easy.
6) Beautiful

Birddogz · Post by **Birddogz** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:00 pm

slistoe wrote:
Birddogz wrote: Why you care so much about what I think has always escaped me. You seem to go out of your way to start arguments with me. Chill out.
Why you can never give your opinion and leave it at that escapes me. You need to make stuff up and try to discredit other breeds/people to try to bolster yourself, argue with anyone and everyone about anything and everything that is said on any topic on which you post. Someone needs a chill pill and it isn't ckirsch.

For the OP - your question was more than adequately answered by the first two posts on this thread. Everything that follows is really neither here nor there. Such discussions about whether an EP has enough coat, etc. etc. are largely academic because if a dog of virtually any sporting breed is properly acclimated to the weather they will hunt for you in any conditions that you as a human can reasonably endure. I have yet to see an ES, EP, GSP, Brit, GWP that was raised in the house as a member of the family be any less of a suck when it came to couch cuddle time than any other. Etc. Etc. The reality is that a well bred dog of any popular pointing dog breed (the popular ones are popular for a reason - and the scarce ones are scarce for a reason) will be more than adequate to meet the needs of the vast majority of hunters (hence why they are popular). The second reality is that you have to live with this dog as a constant companion for 12 mos. of the year, hunting with him for 3 or 4 mos. So... take a look at a bunch of dogs and decide which breed you could see yourself living with for 12 mos. of the year, find a successful breeder of quality field dogs and have fun with your new pup.

CKirsch made the comments about me, not vice versa. In fact, I was paying the EP a compliment. Ignore my posts. For some reason you feel the obligation to comment.

To say that different coat consistencies and breeds don't matter shows ignorance. You hunt when season is in, and you have time. If it is bitter you go anyway. There is a reason that Labs have heavier coats than EPs. Now, obviously those are at the different ends of the spectrum. To ignore the differences between grades of fur is to ignore the evolution of the bird dog. Fur matters. Why do Huskies have thick fur? Could it be because they live in cold weather? Just maybe. :roll: An EP in cold weather will suffer. Just as a heavy coated dog will suffer in the heat. Are there Labs that can hunt in Texas, sure. Are they ideal in the heat? Heck no.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:01 pm

In Dec in northern MN, when the average temp is in the single digits, does coat make a difference? Yes
In mid October? No

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:24 pm

BD; Your post followed mine, not the other way around. You just can't help yourself, and have to slip in something negative about pointers every chance you get. Since you're not able to recognize how abrasive you are, imagine someone making a stupid statement such as "Some Drahts will point occasionally, but they're not the best upland dog. They have great coats for cold water work, but can't handle warm September grouse hunts. They're awesome on fur, but are so sharp that they should not be trusted with small children". Only a complete idiot would say such a thing, but that's your MO, every time, without fail.

Regarding your claim that an "honest man" would agree that pointers' coats limit them, take a run at my post again. Read it very slowly this time, and maybe you'll see that I made that point. For one with such a spectacular intellect (we've heard plenty about that in the past), your reading comprehension is suspect.

It's hilarious that you're now quoting the trainer I recommended after you contacted me for advice, given his description of the phone conversations he shared with you. You impressed him so much that he called afterward and asked that I not give his number out any more. Not sure how his being a talented trainer capable of convincing wirehairs to run hand signals somehow delegates pointers as "adequate", but somehow you were able to make that connection.

The OP expressed an interest in pointers, and mentioned hearing that they are aloof and not good companions, which is what I responded to. I don't recall Bailey listing either cold-weather waterfowling or North Dakota snowdrift hunts as priorities, which makes your inane contribution even more irrelevant.

In reference to your assumption that I lack confidence, I'll freely admit that I'll never be so bold as you, given your past claims that you "know, have, and own the best", hunt more than 99% of us, routinely brave incredibly frigid temps, have a freezer packed far tighter than anyone else's, and best of all, "played high school football at a high level". (Sorry, that last one just kills me...) It would be difficult for anyone to compete with your incredible confidence level, other than, of course, the fact that your knees knock uncontrollably at the prospect of entering your dogs in any event where they would be subjected to evaluation of anyone other than you.

To the OP; if you're looking for an ice-breaking goose retriever, or often hunt in sub-zero temps, don't get a pointer. There are breeds better-suited for those tasks. If, on the other hand, you want a good upland dog that can fetch a duck or two early in the season, can hunt in as cold of weather as most folks are apt to be out in, and will serve as a good companion at home, the breed probably merits your consideration, along with a dozen or so others. Good luck with your search, I'm sure you'll find a dog that fits your needs. Sorry that you were caught in the crossfire.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Yeow. Didnt mean to start a pissing contest. Was just looking for some other peoples points of view, or past/present experiences.

I am not looking for a dog to break ice to retrieve a goose, if I was, I certainly wouldnt be asking about a EP, GSP, or even a GWP, Id just stick to labs. While I hunt ducks, I dont enough to warrant that being what dog I choose. I love upland and have totally enjoyed the few times I was able to hunt behind a decent pointing dog. Now, for me, I love the looks of an EP, I like that a lot. If all things were equal, that is definately the breed I would pick. However, I have no experience with them, and I have heard they run too big, are extremely hyper, and dont make that good of a family dog/companion. A guy like me cant hunt 12 months a year, so a good companion is important. Add to that, I get different feedback from different breeders reguarding the differences in EPs. Elhew, ect. One guy tells me Elhews run big, were bred for horse trilas and another says they are the best foot hunting lines, given certain lines Elhew Strike xStriking Kiwi for example.

Maybe I should have specifically asked which EP is best suited for what I described I like to do. If none, then fine.Ill look into GSP.

Thanks, sorry to get a pissing contest going.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:46 pm

Bailey,

I'm a hunter. I have 4 pointing dogs. Two EP's, a GSP and a Vizsla. The Vizsla is two legs into his Master Hunter title - and the most obedient dog I've ever owned. He is the BEST house dog I've ever owned. He's not as bird crazy as the pointers, but he does fine working closer and he's a good pheasant dog. He loves kids and people - a well-bred "V" is a pleasure to have around people. Both of my EP's are inside dogs as well and though a bit "hyper", they are good dogs inside, just a bit more energetic than the Vizsla is inside. That said, my GSP is the most even tempered dog I own, loves kids and is medium level as far as energy in the house goes. My sister's shorthair is one of the best dogs I've ever been around - not as much of a people pleaser as my "V", but a great housedog and a wonderful hunter.

If you get an EP, just don't buy a horseback trial dog. Get a dog from closer working lines and you'll be happier.

Both the EP's and our GSP will kill cats - I haven't broken them of this habit. My Vizsla likes cats (go figure).

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:53 pm

baileydog2007 wrote:Yeow. Didnt mean to start a pissing contest. Was just looking for some other peoples points of view, or past/present experiences.

I am not looking for a dog to break ice to retrieve a goose, if I was, I certainly wouldnt be asking about a EP, GSP, or even a GWP, Id just stick to labs. While I hunt ducks, I dont enough to warrant that being what dog I choose. I love upland and have totally enjoyed the few times I was able to hunt behind a decent pointing dog. Now, for me, I love the looks of an EP, I like that a lot. If all things were equal, that is definately the breed I would pick. However, I have no experience with them, and I have heard they run too big, are extremely hyper, and dont make that good of a family dog/companion. A guy like me cant hunt 12 months a year, so a good companion is important. Add to that, I get different feedback from different breeders reguarding the differences in EPs. Elhew, ect. One guy tells me Elhews run big, were bred for horse trilas and another says they are the best foot hunting lines, given certain lines Elhew Strike xStriking Kiwi for example.

Maybe I should have specifically asked which EP is best suited for what I described I like to do. If none, then fine.Ill look into GSP.

Thanks, sorry to get a pissing contest going.

Again back to what I posted before There are many dogs which certain breeders breed for big forward charging dogs BUT in those AA type litters maybe 1 lucky if 2 are those true AA dogs...Most are honest shooting dog again bigger then most people really want but ...You can't put run in a dog but you can take it out some are a little harder then others.

So you need to find those dogs which catch your eyes handle they way you like and go with those breeders that are breeding along what pleases You.

You will find a range of dog in the breeds

As for Hyper this is mostly an owners fault. This is lack of training and allowing the dog and indirectly rewarding a young dog for being a spastic idiot. People can't resist that cute pup and when they get home squiggly jumping little pup gets rewarded with attention so as it grows up sure it is going to get more excited when you come home ..They are home pet pet good doggie pet pet squiggle jump pet pick up ...furthers the excited state of mind where if you ignore the pup till it has 4 on the floor and is being calm Then give it attention let it learn calm behavior gets attention not hyper spazed out state of mind.

Also exercise is very important for all your more active breeds if you do not direct them they will direct themselves thus becoming destructive

Post by **slistoe** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:04 am

baileydog2007 wrote:Yeow. Didnt mean to start a pissing contest.

You didn't start anything.

baileydog2007 wrote: Now, for me, I love the looks of an EP, I like that a lot.

This is the most telling thing you have posted. Buy an EP and let the naysayers hang themselves. You need to look at this dog in your house almost every day of the year. And when you go hunting you will be looking at this dog 98% of the time. Don't get a dog you don't like looking at.
Personally I have Brittanys and would never want to own a Pointer. But I know a good many people who do own them and they are as loving a companion as any of my Brits. Not a one of them is afraid to take their dogs out for a run in any weather I would take my Brits out in - I usually draw the line at a clear winter day with -15 F temps. Not sure where the dogs would draw the line because I haven't bothered to try. Any dog that is going to be worth taking out to the field will be bright, inquisitive and active. It is up to you to channel and train that appropriately.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:07 am

Have you considered a started dog? Range would be obvious, for sure.

helpful_cub · Post by **helpful_cub** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:23 am

No one has suggested it yet but it is another option for the frigid northern lands, a pointing lab. It won't have the range or energy of a pointer but shouldn't mind the cold weather very much. Low to medium energy in doors and generally loves everyone. You'll have to be sure to look into a field line, standard retrievers are getting their noses breed out of them.

gspguy · Post by **gspguy** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:04 am

This is Minnesota not Antarctica. An EP will be fine in MN. I live and hunt in MN with a shorthair that has a coat that is more EP-like than GSP-like. She does fine and I will quit in cold weather before she does. Dogs generate body heat by running and hunting and that'll keep any dog plenty warm. Hunting season in MN starts in mid Sept and runs through Dec. The vast majority of the hunting season occurs when the temps are much warmer and many times late Dec is "warm" too. I'd optimize my choice for Sept, Oct, Nov and early Dec. A heavy coat is only optimal for late Dec IMHO.

Get yourself an EP. You've stated you like them. There are a couple of grouse dog trialers (probably more) in MN that would have the exact type of EP you are looking for. I'd start researching down that path first. Look up Jerry Kolter at Northwoods birddogs in Northern MN. He breeds grouse dogs and will have a better opinion than anyone on the matter.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:19 am

If you like EP's I am sure you can find one to your tastes. There is everything out there from Run off's to boot lickers and everything inbetween.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:48 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Have you considered a started dog? Range would be obvious, for sure.

Yea I have. Looked at a couple actually. Had a couple concerns, one, both that I looked at were about a year old, and never house broken, they have always been in outdoor kennels, so not sure how they would ever be in the house. Second, I actually enjoy working with pups (except for the potty training I guess), so not sure I want to pass on that part of the new dog experience. Now, if I found the right started dog, I would do it, but I do enjoy all stages of gettin a new hunting bud and family member I guess.

baileydog2007 · Post by **baileydog2007** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:21 am

helpful_cub wrote:No one has suggested it yet but it is another option for the frigid northern lands, a pointing lab. It won't have the range or energy of a pointer but shouldn't mind the cold weather very much. Low to medium energy in doors and generally loves everyone. You'll have to be sure to look into a field line, standard retrievers are getting their noses breed out of them.

I dont agree with "pointing labs" being legit. IF they are, IMO, you'll get a dog that is not really proficient as a retriever or a pointer, but jusy "ok" at one or both. Ill pass. Thats why there are retriever breeds and pointing breeds IMO. Not trying to start anything, but a Labrador RETRIEVER, is NOT a pointing dog, period, IMO. Will some point? maybe, but a good trainer can teach a lab to point as well as they can teach to flush. That is one of the issues I have with labs these days. Being bred for things they were not intended to be. In my opinion, if you want a pointing dog, get one. If you want a lab, get one. Dont expect a lab to be a pointer, and vice versa. Just my .02.