Puppy question

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Modi
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Puppy question

Post by Modi » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:49 am

I have a 13 week old GWP male. He is a very dominant, bull of a puppy. We want to get him as much exercise as possible, and that includes a lot of walks around the neighborhood. Sometimes this is alone, sometimes with our other dogs. He is always on leash during these walks. He tends to pull against the leash to want to go ahead of or be with the other 2 dogs. When he is alone on these walks, he pulls like crazy, mostly on the way home.

My concern is that he is learning bad habits now that will be a problem later when he gets stronger. I don't want to put a lot of pressure on him at this stage and sour him on training. I also want a well behaved dog that we can control on a lead. He pulls so hard sometimes he makes himself hoarse. My wife bought him a harness, but I'm not sure I like that. I am afraid it will make him pull harder.

Should I let him get away with this for now or should I correct him or what? I definitely don't want to stop taking him for walks.

Thanks all.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:02 am

I have an older female customer who addresses this issue by using a dowel rod to tap the dog on the chest when she starts to surge. In a year, the dog has gone from nearly uncontrollable to reasonable. Yes, it's a mini schnauzer, but the theory is the same.

And, a harness will let the dog use his entire front end against you. Get a heeling stick
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Modi
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Re: Puppy question

Post by Modi » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:58 am

Does this assume he knows "heel?" He doesn't. Isn't it a little early to teach him that? I am willing if he isn't too young. He is a very smart pup.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:14 pm

The description is arbitrary. You aren't using it to teach heel, only to provide an adversive when he does something you want to discouage.
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Re: Puppy question

Post by DougB » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:37 pm

You could try a Gentle Leader or one of the other collars that wrap around the muzzle. Used it for my ESS. She hates the GL, but you can control the dog. They hit the end and pull, they turn their head in to you . Avoids the sudden jerk of 50# on the end of a leash.
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kninebirddog
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Re: Puppy question

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:04 pm

Find a big area I prefer the command lead and as the pup takes a drive forward past my leg I will do a 90 degree angle away and let him get a collar jerk as he when he comes to the end of the lead I will zig zag turning into and Hey if he is in my way he has bumped into me because he wasn't paying attention to how was leading the walk.
Do not say a word let him learn to start paying attention to what you are doing not what he wants to do
keep the sessions short and have a beginning as i prefer to start with them at a chain gang and end there let them sit and absorb what just transpired...Just start working on getting the dog to walk with you for a step or two and then stop when you get it..It is just as important for you to end on those small good notes as it is for your dog
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Re: Puppy question

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:56 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Find a big area I prefer the command lead and as the pup takes a drive forward past my leg I will do a 90 degree angle away and let him get a collar jerk as he when he comes to the end of the lead I will zig zag turning into and Hey if he is in my way he has bumped into me because he wasn't paying attention to how was leading the walk.
Do not say a word let him learn to start paying attention to what you are doing not what he wants to do
keep the sessions short and have a beginning as i prefer to start with them at a chain gang and end there let them sit and absorb what just transpired...Just start working on getting the dog to walk with you for a step or two and then stop when you get it..It is just as important for you to end on those small good notes as it is for your dog
I do this too but don't use any special leads, just the leash and their regular collar. I think it is gentler for a toung pup than the narrow type leads or collars on the throat area of the pup. When the dog is older and knows what it is supposed to be doing then you can go to the narrow leads and get a litle quicker results than sticking to the wide flat collars.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by AZ Brittany Guy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:17 pm

You said that you walk the puppy for exercise. Use the harness and let him pull till his heart is content. The point of contact is on his chest. When you go to teach him heel, use Knine's approach. The point of contact will be on his neck and he will learn the difference.

I don't think taking a pointing dog for a walk is anywhere near the amount of exercise that he needs. Just on opinion:)

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Re: Puppy question

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:22 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
kninebirddog wrote:Find a big area I prefer the command lead and as the pup takes a drive forward past my leg I will do a 90 degree angle away and let him get a collar jerk as he when he comes to the end of the lead I will zig zag turning into and Hey if he is in my way he has bumped into me because he wasn't paying attention to how was leading the walk.
Do not say a word let him learn to start paying attention to what you are doing not what he wants to do
keep the sessions short and have a beginning as i prefer to start with them at a chain gang and end there let them sit and absorb what just transpired...Just start working on getting the dog to walk with you for a step or two and then stop when you get it..It is just as important for you to end on those small good notes as it is for your dog
I do this too but don't use any special leads, just the leash and their regular collar. I think it is gentler for a toung pup than the narrow type leads or collars on the throat area of the pup. When the dog is older and knows what it is supposed to be doing then you can go to the narrow leads and get a litle quicker results than sticking to the wide flat collars.

Ezzy
I find that the command lead does fine key thing is have a light hand and let the dog and the lead do the work, it is All in the hands and the approach :wink:
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Re: Puppy question

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:30 pm

kninebirddog wrote: I find that the command lead does fine key thing is have a light hand and let the dog and the lead do the work, it is All in the hands and the approach :wink:
So very true but as you said you turn when the pup gets a head of you and let it run into the end of the leash. Thats what I do to and there is no hand used, no voice used, just the puppy hitting the end of the lead hard and letting it learn that it hurts to not watch which way we are going.

Thing we all understand the soft hands but in this case you said to let it hit the end hard. I agree. :roll:

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Re: Puppy question

Post by kninebirddog » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:48 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
kninebirddog wrote: I find that the command lead does fine key thing is have a light hand and let the dog and the lead do the work, it is All in the hands and the approach :wink:
So very true but as you said you turn when the pup gets a head of you and let it run into the end of the leash. Thats what I do to and there is no hand used, no voice used, just the puppy hitting the end of the lead hard and letting it learn that it hurts to not watch which way we are going.

Thing we all understand the soft hands but in this case you said to let it hit the end hard. I agree. :roll:

Ezzy
No I said when the pup gets a head I turn a 90 degree angle away and yes I will allow them to reach the end and yes I will allow it to be a slight jerk which will mentally get them to move with me I do not physically force them that defeats the purpose...When I have a dog moving with me mentally we can then get on with training ..
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Re: Puppy question

Post by crazyboy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:24 pm

I'm using the gentle leader now and so far I like it the best.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by mcbosco » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:15 pm

crazyboy wrote:I'm using the gentle leader now and so far I like it the best.
The Gentle Leader is the most effective control device I have ever seen. Period, from the first time it is put on.

An idiot could use it.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:33 pm

mcbosco wrote:
crazyboy wrote:I'm using the gentle leader now and so far I like it the best.
The Gentle Leader is the most effective control device I have ever seen. Period, from the first time it is put on.

An idiot could use it.
Is that why you like it? :roll: :lol:

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Re: Puppy question

Post by big steve46 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:19 pm

Good one Ezzy! :lol: :lol:
big steve

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Re: Puppy question

Post by fuzznut » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:59 am

I hate those Gentle Leaders!!!!! With a passion. They just look odd and I worry about pulling them around by the head at that age.
go get yourself a $.50 slip lead, put it on the puppy and teach it to walk without pulling you around. Don't make this harder then it needs to be. At this age he can learn not to be a maniac on a leash, it's up to you to teach him. Keep the lead high up on his neck, right behind his skull and give him little tugs when he gets in front of you. They learn quick that it's uncomfortable and will stop.

But, and this is a big BUT..... this puppy needs much more then a walk or two around the block. He needs free time to run, really run and burn off energy! Find yourself a field somewhere and turn him loose. Teaching a puppy is much easier for you both if he is a bit tired and not full of puppy energy.

Unless your other dogs are model citizens, I don't think I would walk him with them at this point. Trying to keep one under control is tough enough... trying to control multiples can get crazy.

Personally, I don't worry about teaching heel at this age, but I don't want them yanking my arm off either. Some manners are better taught young, the fine points can come later.
Good luck.... have fun with him!
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Re: Puppy question

Post by GUNDOGS » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:16 am

fuzznut wrote:I hate those Gentle Leaders!!!!! With a passion. They just look odd and I worry about pulling them around by the head at that age.
go get yourself a $.50 slip lead, put it on the puppy and teach it to walk without pulling you around. Don't make this harder then it needs to be. At this age he can learn not to be a maniac on a leash, it's up to you to teach him. Keep the lead high up on his neck, right behind his skull and give him little tugs when he gets in front of you. They learn quick that it's uncomfortable and will stop.

But, and this is a big BUT..... this puppy needs much more then a walk or two around the block. He needs free time to run, really run and burn off energy! Find yourself a field somewhere and turn him loose. Teaching a puppy is much easier for you both if he is a bit tired and not full of puppy energy.

Unless your other dogs are model citizens, I don't think I would walk him with them at this point. Trying to keep one under control is tough enough... trying to control multiples can get crazy.

Personally, I don't worry about teaching heel at this age, but I don't want them yanking my arm off either. Some manners are better taught young, the fine points can come later.
Good luck.... have fun with him!
Fuzz
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Re: Puppy question

Post by 4dabirds » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:18 pm

the reason your dog pulls is because when he pulls you move forward with him. Dogs read their environment and work on strategies that get them what they want. The strategy of pulling is rewarded by you moving forward. If you only move forward with the leash being slack the dog will perceive this as an effective strategy. This is similar to why dogs bark at people passing by when they bark the people leave , it is an effective strategy in the dogs mind. Another example or a way yo can test this is to not let your dog out of the house with the strategy that has bean working for him. If he has bean barking to go out ignore him and watch him change strategies he may jump on door or on you but he will change, trying to find what will work. Forget about all the different leashes and train your dog that what gets the prize is the strategy that works best for you.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by Brittlover » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:34 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Find a big area I prefer the command lead and as the pup takes a drive forward past my leg I will do a 90 degree angle away and let him get a collar jerk as he when he comes to the end of the lead I will zig zag turning into and Hey if he is in my way he has bumped into me because he wasn't paying attention to how was leading the walk.
Do not say a word let him learn to start paying attention to what you are doing not what he wants to do
keep the sessions short and have a beginning as i prefer to start with them at a chain gang and end there let them sit and absorb what just transpired...Just start working on getting the dog to walk with you for a step or two and then stop when you get it..It is just as important for you to end on those small good notes as it is for your dog
As someone who trains dogs big enough to take me for the ride of my life if they so desired, this is the route I take, and I start young basically as soon as their walking on leash outside, we're working on this. It's not harsh, it's basically teaching your pup that he has to pay attention to you. When he lunges ahead, you just change directions preferably between 90-180 degrees. When he hits the end of his leash he'll look back at you and realize that you're heading in a different direction and he'll probably lunge ahead of you in that direction, which means another direction change for you. Yes you'll look like an idiot while doing this, in fact if you make it to the end of your block during your walk, you're doing quite well. You could try a Martingale collar on a puppy, it pulls snug, but not tight like a choke, also it has the sound that a choke chain will make.

As for the harness, yes it encourages pulling. That's why they use it in weight pulling competitions and sledding. The only time I put a harness on my dog is when we're doing treadmill work.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by crazyboy » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 am

I should add my pup that I'm using the leader on is a bit older than the OP's. At 13 weeks I would be trying the simpler methods.

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Re: Puppy question

Post by JKP » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:58 pm

So very true but as you said you turn when the pup gets a head of you and let it run into the end of the leash. Thats what I do to and there is no hand used, no voice used, just the puppy hitting the end of the lead hard and letting it learn that it hurts to not watch which way we are going.
A big +1.....let the pup think that when he hits the end of the lead there is discomfort....no command ... just as the pup hits the end and starts to pull...a sharp pop with the lead....appropriate for the dog...read the dog....discomfort...not punishment....should take no more than a few minutes to learn...do it without the other dogs first til the pup complies...then add the stimulus.

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