What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

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What venue is best in your opinion for a hunting dog? (Foot hunting)

Poll ended at Tue May 10, 2011 2:23 pm

NAVHDA
13
32%
NSTRA
5
12%
AKC foot hunting events
4
10%
ALL AGE
6
15%
Hunt tests
2
5%
VDD Testing
2
5%
Other, please specify
9
22%
 
Total votes: 41

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What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Birddogz » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:23 pm

Just curious to what all on here think. Opinions, not fights.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by nikegundog » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:33 pm

Training and breeding. Those two events will produce the best hunting dog. :D

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by baileydog2007 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:40 pm

Im not sure "events" make the dog. I personally do the events close enough for me to be able to attend without driving forever, but its fun for me, not a job. IMO, training and bird exposure make the dog, which enables them to do well in "events". The idea that a dog is good simply because they compete in a dog event seems far fetched, its the work/training prior to that which makes the dog. And obviously breeding. The fact some look down on HT or think FTs are the true measure, is only in the eye of the dogs owner. While I would enjoy any kind of dog event, geographics for me plays a part, as does money, as does my training ability. For me its about fun and getting the dog in front of birds.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:51 pm

First of all there is no best foot hunting dog. There are only those that please you the most. So it really comes down to you training your dog to do what you like. But that best dog is only best in your mind so it behooves everyone to get what they like and stop worrying about the dogs that make someone else happy. They are just dogs doing what they can to please you.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Ron R » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:16 pm

Birddogz
They all do and I'll add NBHA and AF Shooting dogs. I truely don't think that your looking for an argument but a decussion. Regardless of wich venue you pick your next pup from you have to train it and take it hunting. I know that's not much help so for the sake of the poll I'll go with a combination of NSTRA and All-Age with no real logic behind it. This is silly.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:18 pm

Don't need an event....do need wild bird contacts and good genetics.

"Events" though can help supply dog info invaluable to many hunters.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by kninebirddog » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:27 pm

It is more the program a person has.

I see qualities in all the formats that can bring something to the table. But one needs to seek the desired traits to get what they desire,

A self hunting dog will serve no purpose in any venue trialing or hunting and there is a big difference between a independent bold dog and a self hunter the independent dog will get out in front of you and hunt knowing where you are at and go with you which ever direction you walk will check in at a distance a self hunter is the dog that is running off ripping birds over the hill and doesn't care where you are at

i dog that doesn't have the smarts to work intelligently also will not learn what the owner desires to do thus it may just run straight lines or ramble around aimlessly in the field and stumble across birds not seek out what would be the most likely place to find birds on what they have previously been worked into

So I would have to say all the above can offer something to what any hunter wants and to concentrate to much on one aspect can pull it away and a program get away from a persons ideals

Much of it comes down to personal preference on what one person likes for a dog over another
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Ron R » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:31 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Much of it comes down to personal preference on what one person likes for a dog over another
I think that is what he's asking...I may be wrong.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:38 pm

If I was looking for a close working hunting dog then I think you would have to give NAVADA bred and trained dogs a real serious look. Thats just right down their main strengths.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Texasdogtrainer » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:50 pm

Foot Hunting and Foot training is the only event that aids in developing of a good foot hunting dog. The field trial venue is the activity you and your dog participate in to decide just how good they are at being what you wanted them to be.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by PrairieGoat » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:53 pm

Genetics matter most, experience and training 2nd and 3rd and last is HT/FT events......I only look at them to mitigate my risk in picking a dog with a proven ability to hunt, when I can't or am not able to hunt over the parents. The events have no bearing on whether a dog will be a good "foot hunting dog" or not. That being said, I generally tend to NAVHDA as well, not because I believe they will make better foot hunters, but because it more accurately tests dogs for the types of situations I tend to put a dog into.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by tommyboy72 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:04 pm

Any event run by people east of the Mississippi River especially the east coasters because they have limitless numbers of wild birds to train on and hunt.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Chief_dog » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:07 pm

The best two birddogs I've ever owned were straight out of multiple time all-age national champions. That was way before I ever saw a field trial.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by slistoe » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:38 pm

Whichever event makes the owner a better dog trainer. Then give him a fire breathing dragon of a bird dog and let him loose on the fields with the dog. Everyone else will be envious. If the dog owner is not a dog trainer there is not dog in the world that will be a great foot hunting dog for him.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Kmack » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:15 pm

Other... I believe that proper socialization and introduction to birds as a puppy are the two events which produce a good bird-dog. Beyond that it is all about personalizing the dog to your own tastes.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by original mngsp » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:15 pm

Good genitics and putting the dog on lots of wild birds
+1

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Elkhunter » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:19 pm

How do we determine what type of "foot" hunting dogs? My idea of "foot" hunting is totally different from a guy in PA wanting a grouse dog.

But FT's suck and EP's are run offs and cant hunt in 10 ft snow drifts in Dec. in ND, just thought I would get the thread started they way BD wants! jk

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by AHGSP » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:22 pm

gpblitz wrote:Good genitics and putting the dog on lots of wild birds
Ditto
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Vonzeppelinkennels » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:03 pm

I don't think BD got the kind of response he was looking for!! :lol:

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by huntcrazed » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:07 am

Just my two cents worth.

The events listed to vote do not produce hunting dogs.

To produce hunting dogs that hunt best on foot you simply have to expose the dogs to hunting and best in a certain order.
Events listed to vote on here do not do that ,they are what they are which is tests and else for various purposes.

A candidate to be the best hunting dog that their genes will allow needs exposure to hunting ,not events or even training to start, since a pup can be a great dog and the order of learning what....... can have a great effect on how they put it all together for best results.

They need experience and they learn more than we know out of everything they get exposed to.
If you plant them birds they will learn stuff I never want them to learn first ever if they will be my hunting dog.

My personal preferred method as a first and most important (event to produce the best hunting dog) is to let a pup on daily basis run on wild birds and do what ever they want as young as possible .....no training ,no talking to the dog what so ever.
Just going out there with your dog and letting it do so will let nature take its course and bring out all its instincts and breeding traits and they will know you are there since you go there together and they understand you are taking them there.

Your knowledge as a handler will determine when is the right time to get into the next steps of minor pup training that will help the dog hunt for you and then lay the foundation that will start teaching the dog to point with out braking or creeping,relocate on command, retrieve on command or not after being broke to the wing and shot and kill or not depending what you want ALL after the dog learns to hunt first and hunt for you.

So to make a summary ,events do not make hunting dogs ,hunting does with proper handling for your personal preferences.

Events sometimes can make good testing dogs or trial dogs and horrible hunting dogs.....and vice versa depends..... on the dog also.

After you have created a hunting dog you can enjoy games and events of any type also and teach your dog to do great on everything else after you make them a hunting dog first if this is what you want as a priority
A good dog can be smart enough to switch gears and adopt to as many and any events you want them in besides hunting and always know and adapt fast to what you are doing next.
Personally I find them doing best at what they learn first so you better know what you want to do with that dog ......aways have them do the most first,with what you will be doing with them the most.

Best of luck with your events with your event dogs and best of hunting with your hunting dogs.

Mario

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:14 am

huntcrazed wrote:

After you have created a hunting dog you can enjoy games and events of any type also and teach your dog to do great on everything else after you make them a hunting dog first if this is what you want as a priority
A good dog can be smart enough to switch gears and adopt to as many and any events you want them in besides hunting and always know and adapt fast to what you are doing next.
Personally I find them doing best at what they learn first so you better know what you want to do with that dog ......aways have them do the most first,with what you will be doing with them the most.

Best of luck with your events with your event dogs and best of hunting with your hunting dogs.

Mario
+1 That makes the most sense on here along with the wild birds and genetics.
I chose NAVHDA per logic. I grouse, woodcock, duck hunt, pheasant hunt and on occasion rabbit hunt all with the same dog. For those with limited resources, (birds, grounds and ability) There are good opportunities to learn to train a dog, to get on birds, to have help training, to work on a fully finished dog if that is what you want and variety.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:35 am

Ron R wrote:Birddogz
They all do and I'll add NBHA and AF Shooting dogs. I truely don't think that your looking for an argument but a decussion. Regardless of wich venue you pick your next pup from you have to train it and take it hunting. I know that's not much help so for the sake of the poll I'll go with a combination of NSTRA and All-Age with no real logic behind it. This is silly.
I forgot NBHA Ron, sorry.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:37 am

I guess what I should have said is, when you are going to buy a dog for hunting what "games" would you have liked them to do well in? The kennel I mean, not just 1 dog.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Birddogz » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:40 am

tommyboy72 wrote:Any event run by people east of the Mississippi River especially the east coasters because they have limitless numbers of wild birds to train on and hunt.
That is funny stuff Tommy! :lol: :lol:
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by tn red » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:11 am

Birddogz wrote:
tommyboy72 wrote:Any event run by people east of the Mississippi River especially the east coasters because they have limitless numbers of wild birds to train on and hunt.
That is funny stuff Tommy! :lol: :lol:
Great minds think alike!!

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by RayGubernat » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:36 am

Birddogz wrote:
tommyboy72 wrote:Any event run by people east of the Mississippi River especially the east coasters because they have limitless numbers of wild birds to train on and hunt.
That is funny stuff Tommy! :lol: :lol:

Funny perhaps, but to a great degree it happens to be true. :D :D

The best foot hunting bird dog stock comes out of winning horseback shooting dog sires and dams that have demonstrated the ability to hunt and handle in both tight cover and expansive cover, such as is the norm in the East. Very often these same horseback shooting dog sires and dams and their progeny can be competed in walking shooting dog stakes of various types, further demonstrating their intelligence, biddability and versatility to be able to switch gears when necessary.

Lastly, most any decently bred bird dog will be able to handle the wild birds that it encounters, if given time and experience. Most bird dogs that can successfully handle planted birds in planted bird trials will handle wild birds just fine, once they figure out that the wild birds will not be crowded or pressured. I have not found the opposite to be always true. There are plenty of good solid wild bird dogs that do not do anywhere near as good a job on planted birds.

Like it or not, planted birds are going to become more and more a common phenomenon...everywhere. It makes sense to me to look for a dog that has demonstrated the ability to deal with them successfully. But then, I don't live out in Elk Hump, Montana and know everything about everything, like some folks. I live in Delaware, run FDSB pointers in AFTCA and AKC stakes, with some success, hunt a few preserves and train on the woodcock when they come through.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Ron R » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:51 am

RayGubernat wrote:. Most bird dogs that can successfully handle planted birds in planted bird trials will handle wild birds just fine, once they figure out that the wild birds will not be crowded or pressured. I have not found the opposite to be always true. There are plenty of good solid wild bird dogs that do not do anywhere near as good a job on planted birds
That seems to be true from my experience as well.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by JKP » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:05 am

The answer to this question is all of them...you just have to get the answers to the unknown....then its going to depend as much on the owner/handler as on the dog as to whether the dog ever gets there.

Desire is desire...no venue has a lock on desire
Nose is nose.....no venue has a lock on nos
Mental stability is mental stability....no venue has a lock on mental stability
Search is search.....no venue has a lock on search

...and since so many lines and kennels are successful in more than one venue, how do you have a meaningful discussion on this topic.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Ruffshooter » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:13 am

Plenty of wild birds in this eastern State.

Sorry misread the question, I would think my perfect dog would come from lines that were both successful in shooting dog and NAVHDA.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by Cajun Casey » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:52 am

This all reads like asking which kind of cabbage has the prettiest flower and being handed recipes for sauerkraut. :roll:

Events do not produce foot hunting dogs. Hunters produce foot hunting dogs. When they try to train like trial trainers is when they make the first slip.
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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by slistoe » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:11 am

Ron R wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:. Most bird dogs that can successfully handle planted birds in planted bird trials will handle wild birds just fine, once they figure out that the wild birds will not be crowded or pressured. I have not found the opposite to be always true. There are plenty of good solid wild bird dogs that do not do anywhere near as good a job on planted birds
That seems to be true from my experience as well.
Plenty of truth here.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by RoostersMom » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:13 am

I agree with above. Breeding good quality dogs and training well produces the best foot hunting dogs. My (soon to be) MH dog is my go-to dog in the field. He doesn't hunt as well or as hard as my EP, but he hunts the way I like and I don't have to hack on him when hunting. My husband prefers our GSP - she's middle of the range. The EP will find more birds than the others, but won't hunt at youth hunts (won't point birds in launchers) so she doesn't get to play that game anymore.....

I guess it totally depends on what you like. I like a steady to wing and shot dog that I can handle well in the field and hunt with anyone else on any day no matter the type of dogs they're hunting. And I don't like my dog to be so far out of sight that I can't find him 8) . Some would say they are more interested in the number of birds found. I like to find birds, and lots of them, but I am much more concerned about having a well-behaved hunting companion that can hunt with any other dogs in any situations. And my Vizsla likes to retrieve ducks - but only during teal season. BTW - so does the English Pointer.

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Re: What events produce the best foot hunting dogs?

Post by ymepointer » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:14 am

I have seen good ones in all those venues and from parents that ran in all those venues....I would add NBHA and USCOMPLETE to this list thoug..It's the Dog not the venue that matters really. Good ones seem to be able to ecel whereever you run them.

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