Versatile dogs a thing of the past?

[huntcrazed]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

[mcbosco]

Mine has big webbed feet and can swim coastal water as steadily but not as fast as a good Lab.

[nikegundog]

They are just a myth like Jackalopes. However I've been seeing a lot of pointers lately with webfeet, so you could be onto something.

[Prairie Hunter]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

There are still plenty of good bloodlines in most breeds in this country that haven’t been infused with pointers. They have the same basic genetics they did when they came out of Europe. You just have to do your home work before buying to make sure you’re getting what you want. Those dogs will do any of the things expected of a versatile dog because that is what they were bred for. To think all the U.S. breeds have been watered down with pointer blood is a myth. A lot of the change has been through selective breeding, both for the good and the bad.

[ezzy333]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

My straight bred versatile dogs have flippers but the crossbreds have webbed feet. One more cross and some of them might hunt. :roll:

Ezzy

[ezzy333]

Seriously, if you are thinking about hunting fur and feathers they are still here, as much of the versatility is in how they are trained. But there is very limited uses for them so I do think you see less and less used at what we call versatile jobs.

Ezzy

[gittrdonebritts]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

My straight bred versatile dogs have flippers but the crossbreds have webbed feet. One more cross and some of them might hunt. :roll:

Ezzy

Somebody is grouchy today

[ckirsch]

The jackalope is not a myth.

[slistoe]

The jackalope is not a myth.

I used to have one mounted on the wall but I think a Unicorn showed up one night and brought it back to life. One day my Versatile non-versatiles will point one and I can replace the empty space.

[ultracarry]

Seriously, if you are thinking about hunting fur and feathers they are still here, as much of the versatility is in how they are trained. But there is very limited uses for them so I do think you see less and less used at what we call versatile jobs.

Ezzy

So what your saying is that you can take a field trial GSP and teach it to do blind retrieves and swim... ohhhhhhh now were talkin.

[adogslife]

Would enjoy seeing one of those Ft dogs with their nose down on a blood track.

[larue]

So what your saying is that you can take a field trial GSP and teach it to do blind retrieves and swim... ohhhhhhh now were talkin

Yes,in fact my old dog max did blind retrieves,and was a machine in marked water retrieves,never saw a better dog at water retrieves.
Max would do a 300 yard water blind,and the next week win a horseback event,or handle ruffed grouse and retrieve a goose the same day.

[brad27]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

Nope, no more versital breeds here in America. My GSP doesn't have webbed feet and when I bred her I'm not going to dock the pups tails so they look more like the dogs they truly are, English pointers. :roll: I also heard that 2011 is the last year NAVHDA is going to be in operation. :roll:

[slistoe]

Would enjoy seeing one of those Ft dogs with their nose down on a blood track.

Too bad some folks can't recognize tracking unless the dog drops its nose in the dirt.

[Grouse Dog Guy]

I think if you check they all have webbed feet just some have stub tails so their not mistaken for bird dogs.

[brad27]

I think if you check they all have webbed feet just some have stub tails so their not mistaken for bird dogs.

[huntcrazed]

Thank you all for your responses!

I feel everything mentioned here has a lot of truth to it.

I have had some of all in the thirty plus years I have lived in the western part of the US and I have to say out of lots of dogs I had here here half of them were really exceptional dogs.

It is interesting because I have had some Britts from Walker out of Littles breeding(chubasco II) that were awesome bird dogs and I also had some DKs from Germany back in the eighties out of some medium size Hege haus breeding that was different but equally impressive in the field but more of what I like best for hunting.

I am in a bad situation right now because I lost last year a dog to an accident and a DK breeding pup I got here in the US did not turn out the way I want her ...good hunting meat dog but not what I want .
Right now I am trying to find more dogs for next season and I have a female DK coming over from Europe out of Lasse (second dog at 08 kleeman) and a Hege Haus exceptional female so I am hoping on that to turn out for what I need plus I am looking at dogs here but is hard to find what will fit me best because I do not know a lot of what is out there here in the US

I hunt every day and live in an RV all season every year moving hunting camp every two weeks through out north and south west for over a decade now and I have discovered if the genes are there, lots of experience make any dog great but there is a big difference on same exposure how they turn out for me based on breeding.

I agree they do not have to track with their nose to the ground and I do not care even if they do so fast or slow(better...for tracking only?) but if they are fail proof or not and how often matters in the enjoyment of watching them work.

It seems that all my pleasure comes from seeing great dogs hunt anymore and I care less if I shoot four birds or thirty(for the purpose of their benefit) in a day but to get the most pleasure I have to be looking at the ones that do remarkable stuff often because they are born special.

As a result to come back to the subject of my post I wonder as I am getting older(54) should I try to create a few hot ones again ...old style versatile type.....or just work other peoples dogs for fun for free .....I have tried to find breeders that might want to get the benefit from what I can offer but they either do not know about real hunting or they care about keeping their best as testing or breeding machines and they care less about me wanting to be involved in giving input towards breeding the best.........on the other hand I care less to own too many dogs and get into breeding on my own.

So if the true versatile dogs that I happen to believe make the best hunters really exist here I would love to find them....any suggestions on breeders would sure be appreciated with comments about their characteristics (their dogs not the people lol) to keep the post on subject somewhat.

Last I think even if you don't do with a versatile dog in the field all they can learn to do .....if they have true versatile breeding they do better in most types of hunting as they get experience because they have a lot more in them genetically.....for example if we were to isolate pure bird finding ability the versatile dog will learn to use its nose in many ways the strictly bird dog does not, so after tons of experience the versatile dog becomes better in both never leaving anything behind in pointing and recovery.....now I do not want to make this a DK versus English pointer debate(they are both best for what each one of us wants) but the question is how much of the versatile genes can one find here and where?

I hope they exist and they are better than the ones they breed today in Europe since there is big changes there also lots less game and too many more breeders for financial gain instead of passion to breed the best.

Mario

[huntcrazed]

I was wondering about the breeds that suppose to be versatile and are mixed so much with pointers in the US

Are they still considered versatile and do they have web feet for water work like the local retrieving breeds do?

Mario

My straight bred versatile dogs have flippers but the crossbreds have webbed feet. One more cross and some of them might hunt. :roll:

Ezzy

Ezzy

Some impressive breeding on these Britts you have here....I bet they do not need any more cross.....or maybe some great dk once.....it would still be a Britt ....after all some that I know have setter, pointer and great Britt in them all we need now is Dk .....I am serious I wonder if that might create a new breed with real flippers....but that so called dna will screw it all up.....

Mario

[adogslife]

It would be nice if some folks new the difference between tracking and trailing.

[adogslife]

huntcrazed,

there are a few impressive litters on the NADKC site. IMO, these breedings make importing unnecessary.

[huntcrazed]

huntcrazed,

there are a few impressive litters on the NADKC site. IMO, these breedings make importing unnecessary.

I wonder which ones......I wanted a male out of Atlanta but I did not care for the rest......at 1750 a pup I can ship better.

Please pm me any suggestions ....I am looking and it has been a hard road of learning what is here in detail with DKs


Mario

[markj]

For more information, you can contact: Manny Boutsikakis (01) - 847 48 94 122 or email info@dk-vomsparta.com


Call Manny, I belive he isnt so high as the others ask for their DKs. These dogs that are reged nadkc and navhda are not akc reged nor fci so I had heard it is hard to reg them in akc? but I could be wrong on that.

some litters here
http://www.kurzhaarforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8