Elhew Snakefoots Ancestry Report

[kninebirddog]

Reading the Book Snakefoot The Making of a Champion...Since I have the Breeders Standard program I went ahead and entered the 9 generation Pedigree as shared in the book of Snakefoot.
Makes me Wonder if Mr Whele would have done anything sooner, tighter or different if he had programs like we have today.

I know he probably has rolled in his grave so much he is in the grave in front of him by now from people who use his Elhew name in their breeding program and have no clue as to what and how he felt and bred his dogs.

Anyways I thought you Pointer guys would get a kick out of the Ancestry report on Elhew Snakefoot and just how tight Mr Whele did Linebreed/inbreed to keep his lines like he wanted them.

Enjoy

[Cajun Casey]

The generational programs in use today are largely drawn from work done by Wehle and other mid-to-late twentieth century breeders in a variety of disciplines.

The Elhew prefix was left in good hands. It's when it drops to the middle there can be a problem. Or six. Inclusion of Elhew blood does not preclude errors in breeding.

At least Wehle's canine legacy is more stable than his equine. The Throughbred world could have done without all the Native Dancer issues.

[Ron R]

Ancestry report on Elhew Snakefoot and just how tight Mr Whele did Linebreed

What's linebreeding .

[gittrdonebritts]

Ancestry report on Elhew Snakefoot and just how tight Mr Whele did Linebreed

What's linebreeding .

Not that again lol

[kninebirddog]

Ancestry report on Elhew Snakefoot and just how tight Mr Whele did Linebreed

What's linebreeding .

It is all really a form of inbreeding but the most common way IN breeding is look at is when one breeds with in the first 2 generations brother sister father daughter.
where Line breeding is where one takes the 3 generations on with a common ancestor in a manner where that common ancestor has a real influence
better put Inbreeding is where the family tree barely forks ..Line breeding begins to have some branches

Attached here is a 7 generation...some close breedings in there I think it was at the 8 where there was a brother sister but as you will see here a 7 generation is big enough to try and wade through

Whele was a more Darwin Mendlson thought in breeding..From what little I have read so far he begins with some Silver foxes for top quality pelts and coloring That was very neat to say the least but he did learn from that to keep the desired coat he couldn't just randomly breed with out the quality of the pelt to suffer. And another point he made he spoke of how it took many generations to get these animals to remain pure that is reproducing young with same coats which took very selective breeding inbreeding line breeding and that what took 20 generations to produce this could take as few as a couple generations to undo as the animals natural makeup will want to revert back to what it natural state...which even our dogs of today will revert back to with out our control

EDITED TO add THE PEDIGREE 7 Gen

[Truthseeker]

even Wehle had a tough time defining inbreeding/linebreeding.

[Cajun Casey]

even Wehle had a tough time defining inbreeding/linebreeding.

Brackett didn't. The dog upon which the linebred pedigree is based appears in the second and third generations. For example, the litter mother's sire is the litter father's grandsire.

[Wildweeds]

If it works it's linebreeding,if it don't it's inbreedin......

[Cajun Casey]

If it works it's linebreeding,if it don't it's inbreedin......

I've heard that before from show dog folks and people from Arkansas.

Wehle was a rich egomaniac who preferred horses. He just couldn't get results fast enough with racehorses, so he switched to pointers,

[kninebirddog]

Definition of INBREEDING
1
: the interbreeding of closely related individuals especially to preserve and fix desirable characters of and to eliminate unfavorable characters from a stock
2
: confinement to a narrow range or a local or limited field of choice



Definition of LINEBREEDING
: the interbreeding of individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characters

[Dave Quindt]

Definition of INBREEDING
1
: the interbreeding of closely related individuals especially to preserve and fix desirable characters of and to eliminate unfavorable characters from a stock
2
: confinement to a narrow range or a local or limited field of choice

Definition of LINEBREEDING
: the interbreeding of individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characters

You're not going to get a geneticist to agree with those definitions. Linebreeding is not a term used by geneticists; it is a term created by others to describe inbreeding but without calling it inbreeding, because of the negative connotations.

[kninebirddog]

I should have clarified that is what the Dictionary defines as line breeding and Inbreeding

[kninebirddog]

inbreeding
- 7 dictionary results
in·breed·ing
   [in-bree-ding] Show IPA
–noun Biology .
the mating of closely related individuals, as cousins, sire-daughter, brother-sister, or self-fertilized plants, which tends to increase the number of individuals that are homozygous for a trait and therefore increases the appearance of recessive traits.
Origin:
1835–45; inbreed + -ing1
in·breed
   [in-breed, in-breed] Show IPA verb, -bred, -breed·ing.
–verb (used with object)
1.
to breed (individuals of a closely related group) repeatedly.
2.
to breed within; engender.
–verb (used without object)
3.
to engage in or undergo inbreeding.
Origin:
1590–1600; in-1 + breed
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.
Cite This Source
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Link To inbreeding
World English Dictionary
inbreed (ˈɪnˈbriːd) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— vb , -breeds , -breeding , -bred
1. to breed from unions between closely related individuals, esp over several generations
2. ( tr ) to develop within; engender

'in'breeding

— n , — adj

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition
2009 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009
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Medical Dictionary

in·breed definition
Pronunciation: /ˈin-ˈbrēd/
Function: vb
in·bred ; Pronunciation: /-ˈbred/
, in·breed·ing ; vt : to subject to inbreeding
vi : to engage in inbreeding

in·breed·ing definition
Pronunciation: /ˈin-ˈbrēd-iŋ/
Function: n
: the interbreeding of closely related individuals especially to preserve and fix desirable characters of and to eliminate unfavorable characters from a stock compare LINEBREEDING OUTBREEDING
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source

Medical Dictionary

line·breed·ing definition
Pronunciation: /-iŋ/
Function: n
: the interbreeding of individuals within a particular line of descent usually to perpetuate desirable characters compare INBREEDING OUTBREEDING
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2007 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Cite This Source

[kninebirddog]

A man before his time
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary. ... gor+Johann

Mendel, Gregor Johann (grā`gôr yō`hän mĕn`dəl), 1822–84, Austrian monk noted for his experimental work on heredity
. He entered the Augustinian monastery in Brno in 1843, taught at a local secondary school, and carried out independent scientific investigations on garden peas and other plants until his election as prelate in 1868. Failing eyesight and his duties as prelate somewhat curtailed his researches; although he anticipated Oscar Hertwig's discovery that fertilization of an egg involved only one male sex cell, these findings went unpublished.

Mendel was the first to fashion, by means of a controlled pollination technique and careful statistical analysis of his results, a clear, analytic picture of heredity. His account of the experiments and his conclusions, published in 1866 (tr. Experiments in Plant Hybridization, 1926), were ignored during his lifetime. Rediscovered by three separate investigators (Correns, de Vries, and Tschermak) in 1900, Mendel's conclusions have become the basic tenets of genetics
and a notable influence in plant and animal breeding..................

[kninebirddog]

The generational programs in use today are largely drawn from work done by Wehle and other mid-to-late twentieth century breeders in a variety of disciplines.

The Elhew prefix was left in good hands. It's when it drops to the middle there can be a problem. Or six. Inclusion of Elhew blood does not preclude errors in breeding.

At least Wehle's canine legacy is more stable than his equine. The Throughbred world could have done without all the Native Dancer issues.

Actually Mendelson and Wright were before Whele which are the base for breeding program

Wright’s equation for calculating the Inbreeding Coefficient as devised by Sewell Wright in 1922

Even Brackett based his formula off of Mendelson though even admittedly the Bracketts Formula wasn't new in theory It was just a another way to show something that other geneticist were doing http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com/artic ... fomula.pdf

.....Brackett knew that Mendel was able to consistently predict the traits in his
offspring especially when he knew what characteristics were carried in the
pedigrees of the parents. They both knew that when two individuals with known
ancestry are bred there is more certainty about what they are likely to produce
then when there is missing information about them. Mendel demonstrated these
principles in the 1860's. Brackett used these ideas because he knew that the
unexpected is more likely to occur when there are gaps in information about the
ancestors and their littermates........